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Post by snoggle on Mar 23, 2018 22:29:18 GMT
TfL have issued a press release indicating they are going to run a trial demand responsive service in Outer London for 12 months. This is a Transport Strategy commitment so no surprise TfL have moved quickly to show they're doing something about it. Press releaseI wonder which Outer London borough will be the lucky winner for the trial? I suspect it may be Bexley / Havering / Barnet or Hillingdon. I wonder if TfL will do a better job than Ford in liasing with residents if buses go down currently unserved roads? Meanwhile Ms Pidegon is not at all impressed with this hi-tech tinkering while Dial a Ride performance remains dire. www.mayorwatch.co.uk/tfl-told-to-fix-dial-a-ride-before-getting-carried-away-with-fashionable-app-based-bus-services/
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Post by planesandtrains on Mar 23, 2018 23:21:05 GMT
Very interesting news, would be nice to have one down here in Teddington, however the network is so extensive here it simply wouldn't have a place. Routes like R5/R8/R10 could benefit from something like this.
I love how TFL have this line in every single press release about buses: 'The Mayor has also made bus travel more affordable and convenient through his Hopper fare, allowing an hour of unlimited bus and tram journeys for the price of just one'
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Post by busaholic on Mar 23, 2018 23:34:45 GMT
Very interesting news, would be nice to have one down here in Teddington, however the network is so extensive here it simply wouldn't have a place. Routes like R5/R8/R10 could benefit from something like this. I love how TFL have this line in every single press release about buses: 'The Mayor has also made bus travel more affordable and convenient through his Hopper fare, allowing an hour of unlimited bus and tram journeys for the price of just one' A non-sequitur. There is a limit - it's one hour, so the word 'unlimited' should be excised from the universal statement. Fake news!
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Post by sid on Mar 24, 2018 6:48:37 GMT
Very interesting news, would be nice to have one down here in Teddington, however the network is so extensive here it simply wouldn't have a place. Routes like R5/R8/R10 could benefit from something like this. I love how TFL have this line in every single press release about buses: 'The Mayor has also made bus travel more affordable and convenient through his Hopper fare, allowing an hour of unlimited bus and tram journeys for the price of just one' A non-sequitur. There is a limit - it's one hour, so the word 'unlimited' should be excised from the universal statement. Fake news! "An hour of unlimited bus and tram journeys for the price of just one"...........I don't see what is fake about that? A similar ticket in Berlin allows two hours of unlimited travel and includes train travel.
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Post by mondraker275 on Mar 24, 2018 9:13:18 GMT
Some may say that TfL have already been running this 'demand responsive' network in all boroughs..... #buscuts
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Post by busaholic on Mar 24, 2018 19:33:05 GMT
A non-sequitur. There is a limit - it's one hour, so the word 'unlimited' should be excised from the universal statement. Fake news! "An hour of unlimited bus and tram journeys for the price of just one"...........I don't see what is fake about that? A similar ticket in Berlin allows two hours of unlimited travel and includes train travel. If you left the word 'unlimited' out it would mean just the same. It's a bit like those eating establishments that advertise ' all you can eat for £x' and then give you a thirty minute time limit! That hour limit may not give you a chance to even catch a second bus of your choice: it's all over-hyped and doesn't fool the seasoned bus traveller. Increase the flat fare and then cap at two per day, job done.
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Post by snowman on Mar 27, 2018 20:49:58 GMT
TfL have issued a press release indicating they are going to run a trial demand responsive service in Outer London for 12 months. This is a Transport Strategy commitment so no surprise TfL have moved quickly to show they're doing something about it. Press releaseI wonder which Outer London borough will be the lucky winner for the trial? I suspect it may be Bexley / Havering / Barnet or Hillingdon. I wonder if TfL will do a better job than Ford in liasing with residents if buses go down currently unserved roads? Meanwhile Ms Pidegon is not at all impressed with this hi-tech tinkering while Dial a Ride performance remains dire. www.mayorwatch.co.uk/tfl-told-to-fix-dial-a-ride-before-getting-carried-away-with-fashionable-app-based-bus-services/I would wager a replacement for 965 to Riverhill would be strong candidate Might be limited to areas with a PTAL of zero, perhaps also including PTAL 1 (indication of Public Transport Access Level), the grey stripes on this map which shows London in 100m squares (map is zoomable) goes up 6b tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcatJust discovered I live on border of 1b and 2 so 65 bus route (which I consider to be frequent) doesn’t rate very highly, learn something every day.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 27, 2018 23:57:54 GMT
You have to have several high frequency bus routes and be within a short walking distance of very frequent rail services to have a high PTAL score. Remoteness from tube services sees PTAL scores drop like a stone.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 22, 2018 10:36:20 GMT
While browsing for something else I found this procurement information about the proposed Demand Responsive Bus Service. www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/Notice/508012f5-380e-4393-a088-c722c828c3ed?p=@8=UFQxUlRRPT0=NjJNT0It is worth clicking on the attachment and then downloading the questionnaire (word document). This gives a flavour of what TfL are looking for in the trial. A few snippets - cost of running the trial service to be part funded by the operator / data company - all data from the trial to be shared with TfL (I suspect that will be an interesting thing to "prove" if TfL team up with a data company) - We would like to use any trial(s) to better understand the use of technology to arrange and pay for journeys. As such, a system that utilises app-based technology as one option for booking and payment / refunds would be required. - To limit cost it is not proposed to integrate any trial service with the TfL Oyster card payment system. (eeek - No Oyster acceptance!!) - driver wages have to match the Mayor's minimum salary - buses must be euroVI or better - buses must be 9 seats or larger - trial has to be in Outer London - Any trial(s) will be an additional service that enhances and complements existing public transport. - Any trial(s) will be an additional service that enhances and complements existing public transport. - The majority of the route or trial area must be within the Greater London boundary. (This is interesting as I expected any trial route to be wholly within Gtr London). - trial will last a maximum of 12 months - ITT issue in June, preferred bidders Aug 2018, contract award Sep 2018 (clearly going to be done faster than a normal bus contract is) - indicative start date is "Late 2018" (this is obviously rather vague but it's early days)
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Post by snowman on Apr 22, 2018 10:56:20 GMT
This is interesting, I wonder if the partly within Greater London allows TfL to trial a service like a replacement for 965 to Riverhill.
In fact I wonder if it would actually overlap with bits of dial a ride. In longer term doesnt make any sense to operate seperate parallel booking systems if it is a simple normal or special bus.
Im sure I have read somewhere that the whole overlapping dial a ride / mobility bus routes / hospital services are ripe for simplifcation as TfL has an obligation as oversee-er of transport
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Post by routew15 on Apr 22, 2018 13:38:02 GMT
This is interesting, I wonder if the partly within Greater London allows TfL to trial a service like a replacement for 965 to Riverhill. In fact I wonder if it would actually overlap with bits of dial a ride. In longer term doesnt make any sense to operate seperate parallel booking systems if it is a simple normal or special bus. Im sure I have read somewhere that the whole overlapping dial a ride / mobility bus routes / hospital services are ripe for simplifcation as TfL has an obligation as oversee-er of transport I think the last few mobility bus routes being absorbed into the umberella of Dial A Ride would be sensible, as it could allow members to call in with for the service only being run when required (could even improve uptake on days that are not currently scheduled for service). Dial A Ride doesn’t actually cater for hospital appointments (nor do i think it should). The model of Dial A Ride is quite simple, adding to much complexity to it could allienate vulnerable people it is there to serve. The current application process for Dial-A-Ride could be deemed archaic by the assumed target audience of “Response-Ride” service. Likewise “Response-Ride” app based booking service may be a bit advanced for DialARide members. My only hope for this new service (and at least in the introductory stage of the service) is that a different type of fair structure is introduced, for example ; “make 12 rides and get your 13th free” or “only £X a month for unlimted rides” or “1/3 off if you ride with a pal” these kind of things will be what will leech passengers off of Chariot & Uber & Citymapper.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 22, 2018 14:57:28 GMT
I think the last few mobility bus routes being absorbed into the umberella of Dial A Ride would be sensible, as it could allow members to call in with for the service only being run when required (could even improve uptake on days that are not currently scheduled for service). Dial A Ride doesn’t actually cater for hospital appointments (nor do i think it should). The model of Dial A Ride is quite simple, adding to much complexity to it could allienate vulnerable people it is there to serve. The current application process for Dial-A-Ride could be deemed archaic by the assumed target audience of “Response-Ride” service. Likewise “Response-Ride” app based booking service may be a bit advanced for DialARide members. My only hope for this new service (and at least in the introductory stage of the service) is that a different type of fair structure is introduced, for example ; “make 12 rides and get your 13th free” or “only £X a month for unlimted rides” or “1/3 off if you ride with a pal” these kind of things will be what will leech passengers off of Chariot & Uber & Citymapper. If moving the Mobility Routes into Dial a Ride was a genuinely viable option I expect it would have been done long ago. Look how long it took to get rid of the 931 and I think the basis there was that regular users would be transferred to Dial a Ride. The proposed funding reductions for Dial a Ride ran into severe political problems and caused some frantic "back pedalling" at City Hall and lots of reassuring tweets from Val Shawcross. The questionnaire for the demand responsive trial suggests that both app based ordering and "more conventional" means should be provided as TfL do not want to widen the "digital divide" which suggests to me that they expect the trial service to possibly have a fair proportion of older non tech savvy users. Outer London as the trial area also reinforces this possibility. It's not exactly going to be in a thriving "yoof" target market where bright young things do everything on their smartphones. I fear your expectation about "whizzy special offers" for fares and ticketing will run into political problems. I can already see the Mayor's Question from Caroline Pidgeon demanding to know why the trial service won't accept Oyster ticketing. I expect she will also challenge the veracity of any trial if normal ticketing products can't be used on the service. I know that Oyster is a closed proprietary system and therefore not easy to bolt on to existing tech but I can see the politicians not being interesting in this "reason". If the trial service has different fares to normal TfL services then that will cause another hullabaloo about "a two tier bus service" and lack of integration etc etc.
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Post by arrivaarriva on Apr 22, 2018 16:12:10 GMT
Why the cynicism about the Hopper fare? I am not disabled but simply cannot currently walk at "normal" speed. The journey I make would take an average person 35-40 minutes on foot but I do it by means of a short journey on each of four different buses. Riding on four buses - or even just more than one - within an hour for one fare would have been unheard of in the days of London Transport. Nobody is trying to "fool" anybody. Transport for London is offering a genuine facility previously unavailable. Busaholic's comment about not being able to catch a second bus within the one hour does not make sense to me. He must be referring to services on the outer edges of the network which run infrequently.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 22, 2018 19:05:19 GMT
Why the cynicism about the Hopper fare? I am not disabled but simply cannot currently walk at "normal" speed. The journey I make would take an average person 35-40 minutes on foot but I do it by means of a short journey on each of four different buses. Riding on four buses - or even just more than one - within an hour for one fare would have been unheard of in the days of London Transport. Nobody is trying to "fool" anybody. Transport for London is offering a genuine facility previously unavailable. Busaholic's comment about not being able to catch a second bus within the one hour does not make sense to me. He must be referring to services on the outer edges of the network which run infrequently. I think the issue about how "unlimited" or not the Hopper ticket is depends entirely on how you view the bus network, how you use it and if you want to pick holes in fairly bland Mayoral statements. Of course it is perfectly possible to devise long journeys where it will be difficult to benefit from the Hopper ticket. Naturally there are differential journey times on the same route making "hopping" easier at quieter times than during the peaks. Furthermore there are difficult interchange options between low frequency services where a long wait may mean you don't benefit. On the other hand there are other trips where you have to change buses to get anywhere and if they involve shortish hops then that is a genuine money saver for people who pay "cash" fares. I even managed a journey the other day in the PM peak where I would have triggered the "second bus discount after a tube journey" part of the Hopper ticket scheme. To be honest if I had been in charge I probably would not have introduced the Hopper ticket as an initiative to save passengers money. I would have adjusted the capping regime and brought back caps that excluded Zone 1. However the Hopper is now in place and I can't see it being removed by any future Mayor. It's one of those "immovable" changes to the ticketing structure that will be politically difficult to change. I can see the price going up or the time parameters being tweaked in the future but not the fundamental principle of the thing. It will never be perfect, people will always be able to criticise it because London's transport network is huge, highly variable and affected by all sorts of incidents that affect journey times.
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Post by sid on Apr 23, 2018 6:55:06 GMT
Why the cynicism about the Hopper fare? I am not disabled but simply cannot currently walk at "normal" speed. The journey I make would take an average person 35-40 minutes on foot but I do it by means of a short journey on each of four different buses. Riding on four buses - or even just more than one - within an hour for one fare would have been unheard of in the days of London Transport. Nobody is trying to "fool" anybody. Transport for London is offering a genuine facility previously unavailable. Busaholic's comment about not being able to catch a second bus within the one hour does not make sense to me. He must be referring to services on the outer edges of the network which run infrequently. I agree, I think the hopper fare is very much a positive and is clearly here to stay in fact it's surprising that it wasn't implemented years ago. You wouldn't have to pay twice if you changed trains so why should anybody have to do so if they have to change bus.
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