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Post by snoggle on May 9, 2018 0:06:17 GMT
Heaven forfend TfL have published an authority paper seeking permission for funding and procurment authority to award the contract for new Picc Line trains with options for the supply of stock on other lines! I've not read the paper in detail but here's the link. content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdf
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Post by rmz19 on May 9, 2018 0:32:16 GMT
Heaven forfend TfL have published an authority paper seeking permission for funding and procurment authority to award the contract for new Picc Line trains with options for the supply of stock on other lines! I've not read the paper in detail but here's the link. content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdfThanks for this comprehensive document Snoggle. Now we can have a better insight into what TFL are planning regarding the four aforementioned Tube lines. It looks like TFL have prioritised the Bakerloo Line over the Central Line for modernisation, and rightly so as it's a given that the Bakerloo Line needs new trains and signalling modernisation - particularly north of Queen's Park as that section can be problematic. It's also very interesting that the Piccadilly Line will serve Ealing Broadway Station, according to the document, though it's not clear whether this will compensate for the Disctrict Line or it will serve the station alongside the Central and District Lines. Additionally, I really hope the Air Cooling systems will be effective during hot conditions i.e. actually blow out cool/cold air as opposed to the useless systems currently used on the buses.
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Post by snowman on May 9, 2018 5:02:30 GMT
Heaven forfend TfL have published an authority paper seeking permission for funding and procurment authority to award the contract for new Picc Line trains with options for the supply of stock on other lines! I've not read the paper in detail but here's the link. content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdfThanks for this comprehensive document Snoggle. Now we can have a better insight into what TFL are planning regarding the four aforementioned Tube lines. It looks like TFL have prioritised the Bakerloo Line over the Central Line for modernisation, and rightly so as it's a given that the Bakerloo Line needs new trains and signalling modernisation - particularly north of Queen's Park as that section can be problematic. It's also very interesting that the Piccadilly Line will serve Ealing Broadway Station, according to the document, though it's not clear whether this will compensate for the Disctrict Line or it will serve the station alongside the Central and District Lines. Additionally, I really hope the Air Cooling systems will be effective during hot conditions i.e. actually blow out cool/cold air as opposed to the useless systems currently used on the buses. Very interesting, it looks like current 24 trains per hour, upto 27, then with resignalling 33 per hour and subject to affordability 36 per hour, initially 94 trains, options to 101 or 109 (sections 4.11-4.12) Section 4.13 is the Easling Broadway which is to replace District to Ealing to allow 25% more District to Wimbledon and Richmond branches. Although not mentioned I assume additional crossovers to allow Chiswick Park to be served will be needed 6.5 includes options for Bakerloo, Central and Waterloo & City fleets (a timeline using line colours is at 3.11) Appendix 1 part V refers to depot enhancements and stabling capacity increases
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Post by Green Kitten on May 9, 2018 5:36:57 GMT
Heaven forfend TfL have published an authority paper seeking permission for funding and procurment authority to award the contract for new Picc Line trains with options for the supply of stock on other lines! I've not read the paper in detail but here's the link. content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180516-item08-deep-tube-update.pdfThanks for this comprehensive document Snoggle. Now we can have a better insight into what TFL are planning regarding the four aforementioned Tube lines. It looks like TFL have prioritised the Bakerloo Line over the Central Line for modernisation, and rightly so as it's a given that the Bakerloo Line needs new trains and signalling modernisation - particularly north of Queen's Park as that section can be problematic. It's also very interesting that the Piccadilly Line will serve Ealing Broadway Station, according to the document, though it's not clear whether this will compensate for the Disctrict Line or it will serve the station alongside the Central and District Lines. Additionally, I really hope the Air Cooling systems will be effective during hot conditions i.e. actually blow out cool/cold air as opposed to the useless systems currently used on the buses. The signalling north of Queen’s Park is Network Rail signalling. Yes, it definitely needs to be upgraded as you cant get very good headways between trains! It’s up to Network Rail to upgrade it and they should do - it’ll be hard to fit Bakerloo line trains within the proposed 4tph Watford DC Line.
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Post by busman on May 9, 2018 14:03:28 GMT
Thanks for this comprehensive document Snoggle. Now we can have a better insight into what TFL are planning regarding the four aforementioned Tube lines. It looks like TFL have prioritised the Bakerloo Line over the Central Line for modernisation, and rightly so as it's a given that the Bakerloo Line needs new trains and signalling modernisation - particularly north of Queen's Park as that section can be problematic. It's also very interesting that the Piccadilly Line will serve Ealing Broadway Station, according to the document, though it's not clear whether this will compensate for the Disctrict Line or it will serve the station alongside the Central and District Lines. Additionally, I really hope the Air Cooling systems will be effective during hot conditions i.e. actually blow out cool/cold air as opposed to the useless systems currently used on the buses. Very interesting, it looks like current 24 trains per hour, upto 27, then with resignalling 33 per hour and subject to affordability 36 per hour, initially 94 trains, options to 101 or 109 (sections 4.11-4.12) Section 4.13 is the Easling Broadway which is to replace District to Ealing to allow 25% more District to Wimbledon and Richmond branches. Although not mentioned I assume additional crossovers to allow Chiswick Park to be served will be needed 6.5 includes options for Bakerloo, Central and Waterloo & City fleets (a timeline using line colours is at 3.11) Appendix 1 part V refers to depot enhancements and stabling capacity increases Is it clear if Ealing Broadway trains are in addition to the current service pattern or is it possible that the Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section would be cut to accommodate the new service?
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Post by snowman on May 9, 2018 14:48:07 GMT
Very interesting, it looks like current 24 trains per hour, upto 27, then with resignalling 33 per hour and subject to affordability 36 per hour, initially 94 trains, options to 101 or 109 (sections 4.11-4.12) Section 4.13 is the Easling Broadway which is to replace District to Ealing to allow 25% more District to Wimbledon and Richmond branches. Although not mentioned I assume additional crossovers to allow Chiswick Park to be served will be needed 6.5 includes options for Bakerloo, Central and Waterloo & City fleets (a timeline using line colours is at 3.11) Appendix 1 part V refers to depot enhancements and stabling capacity increases Is it clear if Ealing Broadway trains are in addition to the current service pattern or is it possible that the Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section would be cut to accommodate the new service? Doesn't give any details on service patterns, although the initial extra 3 trains per hour (from 24 to 27) suggests that at least 3 could the additional, might also be that some of the Northfields trains will be diverted to Ealing Broadway. Subsequently occurred to me that if the Ealing Broadway branch of District transfers to Piccadilly, then passengers from Ealing / Acton area wouldn't be able to change to Richmond branch unless the Piccadilly started calling at Turnham Green all day There are only 3 bidders left (Alstom, Siemens, and a JV of Bombardier/Hitachi), the bids have been in since 2016 and it seems to suggest contracts will be signed on 31st May 2018 (assuming authorisation given)
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Post by ADH45258 on May 9, 2018 15:20:48 GMT
Is it clear if Ealing Broadway trains are in addition to the current service pattern or is it possible that the Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section would be cut to accommodate the new service? Doesn't give any details on service patterns, although the initial extra 3 trains per hour (from 24 to 27) suggests that at least 3 could the additional, might also be that some of the Northfields trains will be diverted to Ealing Broadway. Subsequently occurred to me that if the Ealing Broadway branch of District transfers to Piccadilly, then passengers from Ealing / Acton area wouldn't be able to change to Richmond branch unless the Piccadilly started calling at Turnham Green all day There are only 3 bidders left (Alstom, Siemens, and a JV of Bombardier/Hitachi), the bids have been in since 2016 and it seems to suggest contracts will be signed on 31st May 2018 (assuming authorisation given) Didn't Alstom and Siemens merge as companies?
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Post by ADH45258 on May 9, 2018 15:22:03 GMT
Thanks for this comprehensive document Snoggle. Now we can have a better insight into what TFL are planning regarding the four aforementioned Tube lines. It looks like TFL have prioritised the Bakerloo Line over the Central Line for modernisation, and rightly so as it's a given that the Bakerloo Line needs new trains and signalling modernisation - particularly north of Queen's Park as that section can be problematic. It's also very interesting that the Piccadilly Line will serve Ealing Broadway Station, according to the document, though it's not clear whether this will compensate for the Disctrict Line or it will serve the station alongside the Central and District Lines. Additionally, I really hope the Air Cooling systems will be effective during hot conditions i.e. actually blow out cool/cold air as opposed to the useless systems currently used on the buses. The signalling north of Queen’s Park is Network Rail signalling. Yes, it definitely needs to be upgraded as you cant get very good headways between trains! It’s up to Network Rail to upgrade it and they should do - it’ll be hard to fit Bakerloo line trains within the proposed 4tph Watford DC Line. Where is the information from about the DC line? Trains on this service are already quite crowded and could really do with a frequency increase, especially with the 5-car 378s due to be replaced by 4-car 710s.
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Post by snoggle on May 9, 2018 15:53:45 GMT
Is it clear if Ealing Broadway trains are in addition to the current service pattern or is it possible that the Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section would be cut to accommodate the new service? Doesn't give any details on service patterns, although the initial extra 3 trains per hour (from 24 to 27) suggests that at least 3 could the additional, might also be that some of the Northfields trains will be diverted to Ealing Broadway. Subsequently occurred to me that if the Ealing Broadway branch of District transfers to Piccadilly, then passengers from Ealing / Acton area wouldn't be able to change to Richmond branch unless the Piccadilly started calling at Turnham Green all day There are only 3 bidders left (Alstom, Siemens, and a JV of Bombardier/Hitachi), the bids have been in since 2016 and it seems to suggest contracts will be signed on 31st May 2018 (assuming authorisation given) I believe it is LU's intention, post upgrade, that all Picc Line trains will stop at Turnham Green. There was been an extremely vocal campaign over many years to try to get Picc trains to stop there. Much of it was led by former Tory MP for Hounslow, Mary McLeod, but even she could not exert enough pressure via Boris to get an earlier commitment. I think LU simply put their foot down and said you'd need more trains or a reduced level of service overall to achieve all trains stopping (using 73 stock). New stock and signals will be much faster with better acceleration and braking which will give enough time in the schedule and fleet size to accommodate stops in the future.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 9, 2018 17:03:53 GMT
Doesn't give any details on service patterns, although the initial extra 3 trains per hour (from 24 to 27) suggests that at least 3 could the additional, might also be that some of the Northfields trains will be diverted to Ealing Broadway. Subsequently occurred to me that if the Ealing Broadway branch of District transfers to Piccadilly, then passengers from Ealing / Acton area wouldn't be able to change to Richmond branch unless the Piccadilly started calling at Turnham Green all day There are only 3 bidders left (Alstom, Siemens, and a JV of Bombardier/Hitachi), the bids have been in since 2016 and it seems to suggest contracts will be signed on 31st May 2018 (assuming authorisation given) I believe it is LU's intention, post upgrade, that all Picc Line trains will stop at Turnham Green. There was been an extremely vocal campaign over many years to try to get Picc trains to stop there. Much of it was led by former Tory MP for Hounslow, Mary McLeod, but even she could not exert enough pressure via Boris to get an earlier commitment. I think LU simply put their foot down and said you'd need more trains or a reduced level of service overall to achieve all trains stopping (using 73 stock). New stock and signals will be much faster with better acceleration and braking which will give enough time in the schedule and fleet size to accommodate stops in the future. Would also be useful for Metropolitan Line trains to stop at West Hampstead, for interchange with Overground and ThamesLink.
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Post by wirewiper on May 9, 2018 17:53:43 GMT
I believe it is LU's intention, post upgrade, that all Picc Line trains will stop at Turnham Green. There was been an extremely vocal campaign over many years to try to get Picc trains to stop there. Much of it was led by former Tory MP for Hounslow, Mary McLeod, but even she could not exert enough pressure via Boris to get an earlier commitment. I think LU simply put their foot down and said you'd need more trains or a reduced level of service overall to achieve all trains stopping (using 73 stock). New stock and signals will be much faster with better acceleration and braking which will give enough time in the schedule and fleet size to accommodate stops in the future. Would also be useful for Metropolitan Line trains to stop at West Hampstead, for interchange with Overground and ThamesLink. Whilst a nice idea in theory, the formation in this area is restricted and it would be difficult to fit in the extra platforms required for Metropolitan Line trains to stop. The only way I could see it happening would be to close the Jubilee Line island platform, completely realign the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines through the station area and build two new island platforms. You would probably also need to reconstruct the bridge carrying West End Lane over the formation and build a new street-level station building.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 9, 2018 18:27:43 GMT
Would also be useful for Metropolitan Line trains to stop at West Hampstead, for interchange with Overground and ThamesLink. Whilst a nice idea in theory, the formation in this area is restricted and it would be difficult to fit in the extra platforms required for Metropolitan Line trains to stop. The only way I could see it happening would be to close the Jubilee Line island platform, completely realign the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines through the station area and build two new island platforms. You would probably also need to reconstruct the bridge carrying West End Lane over the formation and build a new street-level station building. The West Hampstead Interchange proposal could even take place. This would involve modifying the road layout, track layout and infrastructure, to allow interchange between the 3 stations on West End Lane without going to street level. The plans include additional platforms on the Metropolitan Line, as well as on Chiltern services towards Harrow-on-the-Hill or Wembley Stadium.
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Post by paulsw2 on May 9, 2018 23:23:34 GMT
This will be interesting as a driver based at Acton Town (District) we can only stable trains in Ealing common via Ealing or from the Eastbound Platforms at Acton Town so District Trains WILL have to go via Ealing Common (stabling is easier from the Broadway as reversing from Ealing Common would cause serious blocking back) I can possibly see that Early mornings and Later evening service still running to and from the Broadway as the Olympia branch has early trains from but NO late evening trains to Olympia in passenger service
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Post by wirewiper on May 10, 2018 12:30:59 GMT
Whilst a nice idea in theory, the formation in this area is restricted and it would be difficult to fit in the extra platforms required for Metropolitan Line trains to stop. The only way I could see it happening would be to close the Jubilee Line island platform, completely realign the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines through the station area and build two new island platforms. You would probably also need to reconstruct the bridge carrying West End Lane over the formation and build a new street-level station building. The West Hampstead Interchange proposal could even take place. This would involve modifying the road layout, track layout and infrastructure, to allow interchange between the 3 stations on West End Lane without going to street level. The plans include additional platforms on the Metropolitan Line, as well as on Chiltern services towards Harrow-on-the-Hill or Wembley Stadium. I suppose West Hampstead Underground could be rebuilt if the industrial buildings to the north of the station were demolished and some of the green space either end taken over for a widened formation. However it would be a hugely expensive project, and would require numerous weekend possessions or some serious blockades of two Underground lines and an increasingly busy main line out of London, plus road closures on a busy and strategically important local north-south route. Also if your connections to the Overground and Thameslink stations are not at street level - where would they go? An underground foot subway?
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Post by snoggle on May 11, 2018 16:19:05 GMT
The West Hampstead Interchange proposal could even take place. This would involve modifying the road layout, track layout and infrastructure, to allow interchange between the 3 stations on West End Lane without going to street level. The plans include additional platforms on the Metropolitan Line, as well as on Chiltern services towards Harrow-on-the-Hill or Wembley Stadium. I suppose West Hampstead Underground could be rebuilt if the industrial buildings to the north of the station were demolished and some of the green space either end taken over for a widened formation. However it would be a hugely expensive project, and would require numerous weekend possessions or some serious blockades of two Underground lines and an increasingly busy main line out of London, plus road closures on a busy and strategically important local north-south route. Also if your connections to the Overground and Thameslink stations are not at street level - where would they go? An underground foot subway? Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but there is a less than zero chance of an interchange at West Hampstead ever being built. There isn't the space nor is there the money nor the will. LU can't even find the money nor land / stn building changes to provide a single lift at West Hampstead LU despite a lot of political pressure for it. Heck they've just sandwiched in the Overground station with a load of new flats that are almost certainly an impediment to any future improvements at that station (beyond the current ticket hall and accessibility works). I also think that any scheme would generate enormous local resistance to such a large scale scheme that would almost certainly have to incorporate an enormous commercial element and / or massive blocks of expensive flats. The time to build the interchange was 30-40 years ago - before the area gentrified and before the O2 centre was built that also generated further commercial development on what was railway land. The opportunity has gone forever.
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