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Post by ADH45258 on May 20, 2019 21:12:55 GMT
I agree that 30 minute gaps are not good. However moving to the new timetable structure now allows two things. Firstly it provides a clear test train path for 710s to run in. Secondly it allows the fourth path per hour to be filled in as soon as trains are available. If the old timetable had been reverted to then this would have meant a rewrite of the Bakerloo Line timetable and would also mean a potentially long wait, once new trains are ready, to bring in the 4 tph timetable to Watford. The opportunities to change LU timetables (and rosters) don't come up very often and we can't escape the reality that the Bakerloo and Watford DC timetables are very close knit. Precisely and also there has been big change to the timetables on the WCML so the new paths into Euston have been set. I wonder if it is possible to use the 4th path to run a service up to Willesden Junction. At least this way it removes that 30 minute gap out of Euston and to allow a connection with the Bakerloo line so passengers can continue their journey for stations up to Harrow. Or even a supplementary shuttle service between Harrow & Wealdstone and Watford Junction would be more useful. To the south of the route, only South Hampstead would lose out, as Kilburn Park / High Road stations are close, and the Bakerloo Line can be used for connections to Euston Square at Baker Street, or to Swiss Cottage for South Hampstead. But this 30 minute gap will have a bigger impact at Watford High Street, Carpenders Park, Hatch End and Headstone Lane. A more radical solution could even be to temporarily replace the Watford line with two short shuttle services, with only the Bakerloo running between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queen's Park - this could perhaps allow the GospelOak-Barking line to run a more frequent service where there is little alternative. |
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Post by Green Kitten on May 20, 2019 21:53:28 GMT
Precisely and also there has been big change to the timetables on the WCML so the new paths into Euston have been set. I wonder if it is possible to use the 4th path to run a service up to Willesden Junction. At least this way it removes that 30 minute gap out of Euston and to allow a connection with the Bakerloo line so passengers can continue their journey for stations up to Harrow. Or even a supplementary shuttle service between Harrow & Wealdstone and Watford Junction would be more useful. To the south of the route, only South Hampstead would lose out, as Kilburn Park / High Road stations are close, and the Bakerloo Line can be used for connections to Euston Square at Baker Street, or to Swiss Cottage for South Hampstead. But this 30 minute gap will have a bigger impact at Watford High Street, Carpenders Park, Hatch End and Headstone Lane. A more radical solution could even be to temporarily replace the Watford line with two short shuttle services, with only the Bakerloo running between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queen's Park - this could perhaps allow the GospelOak-Barking line to run a more frequent service where there is little alternative. How would you reverse the Overground service south-to-north at Harrow and Wealdstone? It can’t be done without completely disrupting Bakerloo Line services. |
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Post by ADH45258 on May 20, 2019 22:00:40 GMT
Or even a supplementary shuttle service between Harrow & Wealdstone and Watford Junction would be more useful. To the south of the route, only South Hampstead would lose out, as Kilburn Park / High Road stations are close, and the Bakerloo Line can be used for connections to Euston Square at Baker Street, or to Swiss Cottage for South Hampstead. But this 30 minute gap will have a bigger impact at Watford High Street, Carpenders Park, Hatch End and Headstone Lane. A more radical solution could even be to temporarily replace the Watford line with two short shuttle services, with only the Bakerloo running between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queen's Park - this could perhaps allow the GospelOak-Barking line to run a more frequent service where there is little alternative. How would you reverse the service at Harrow and Wealdstone? Such a shuttle has operated in the past when the line was closed south of Harrow & Wealdstone. Given the short duration of such a journey, trains could perhaps reverse from the platform at Harrow & Wealdstone, picking up passengers immediately after dropping off, with trains spending all stand time at Watford Junction. |
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Post by kmkcheng on May 20, 2019 22:06:13 GMT
How would you reverse the service at Harrow and Wealdstone? Such a shuttle has operated in the past when the line was closed south of Harrow & Wealdstone. Given the short duration of such a journey, trains could perhaps reverse from the platform at Harrow & Wealdstone, picking up passengers immediately after dropping off, with trains spending all stand time at Watford Junction. That was possible only because there was no bakerloo line trains using the turnback siding. It can’t pick up passengers immediately as there is no crossover north of the station. There’s a crossover south of the station but that would block the line whilst the train would reverse to the northbound line. Even using the turnback siding in between bakerloo line services would cause a lot of disruption to services |
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Post by Green Kitten on May 20, 2019 22:08:20 GMT
How would you reverse the service at Harrow and Wealdstone? Such a shuttle has operated in the past when the line was closed south of Harrow & Wealdstone. Given the short duration of such a journey, trains could perhaps reverse from the platform at Harrow & Wealdstone, picking up passengers immediately after dropping off, with trains spending all stand time at Watford Junction. The only way to reverse a train is via a crossover just south of Harrow & Wealdstone. You’d have to draw forward, shunt the train and reverse - so the idea of passengers boarding after dropping off passengers at H&W won’t work. This will also block the southbound Bakerloo Line trains. The signalling on this part of the Bakerloo/Watford DC’s ain’t so great either. |
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Post by Lukeo on May 22, 2019 8:55:11 GMT
Such a shuttle has operated in the past when the line was closed south of Harrow & Wealdstone. Given the short duration of such a journey, trains could perhaps reverse from the platform at Harrow & Wealdstone, picking up passengers immediately after dropping off, with trains spending all stand time at Watford Junction. The only way to reverse a train is via a crossover just south of Harrow & Wealdstone. You’d have to draw forward, shunt the train and reverse - so the idea of passengers boarding after dropping off passengers at H&W won’t work. This will also block the southbound Bakerloo Line trains. The signalling on this part of the Bakerloo/Watford DC’s ain’t so great either. Just thought I’d add that I have been on a Bakerloo service which picked up passengers from HRW P1 and departed from there, with passengers, without issue. |
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Post by kmkcheng on May 22, 2019 9:08:38 GMT
The only way to reverse a train is via a crossover just south of Harrow & Wealdstone. You’d have to draw forward, shunt the train and reverse - so the idea of passengers boarding after dropping off passengers at H&W won’t work. This will also block the southbound Bakerloo Line trains. The signalling on this part of the Bakerloo/Watford DC’s ain’t so great either. Just thought I’d add that I have been on a Bakerloo service which picked up passengers from HRW P1 and departed from there, with passengers, without issue. This manoeuvre is fine to quickly turn round a late running Bakerloo line service. But what we’ve been talking about is turning a SB service onto the NB line at Harrow & Wealdstone which is not practically possible |
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Post by Lukeo on May 22, 2019 17:50:23 GMT
Just thought I’d add that I have been on a Bakerloo service which picked up passengers from HRW P1 and departed from there, with passengers, without issue. This manoeuvre is fine to quickly turn round a late running Bakerloo line service. But what we’ve been talking about is turning a SB service onto the NB line at Harrow & Wealdstone which is not practically possible Ohh sorry, now I see what you mean! |
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Post by Lukeo on Jul 28, 2019 14:00:14 GMT
Now that the GOBLIN is running fully with 710s, or at least almost so(?), one of the gaps on the Euston line has been filled (so alternating from 3tph to 4tph). Just 1 more train needed for the line to be fully 4tph. I wonder how long it'll be until they're confident enough to release the permanent timetable stating 4tph.
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 6, 2019 20:05:10 GMT
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Post by rif153 on Sept 6, 2019 20:11:14 GMT
Good to see this finally being delivered. It should help ease overcrowding between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queen's Park. It is a shame that it's only the peak service getting the increase though, as 4tph on the whole of the line will be good, and hopefully even encourage more to use the line. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 6, 2019 21:28:26 GMT
Good to see this finally being delivered. It should help ease overcrowding between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queen's Park. It is a shame that it's only the peak service getting the increase though, as 4tph on the whole of the line will be good, and hopefully even encourage more to use the line. Surely there should now be enough 378s to have 4tph at all times on the Watford line, given that the Gospel Oak-Barking line is now fully 710s. Recently travelled on a 4-car 378 on the Watford line, so surprised this isn't the case. |
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Post by Lukeo on Sept 7, 2019 2:15:21 GMT
Good to see this finally being delivered. It should help ease overcrowding between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queen's Park. It is a shame that it's only the peak service getting the increase though, as 4tph on the whole of the line will be good, and hopefully even encourage more to use the line. Surely there should now be enough 378s to have 4tph at all times on the Watford line, given that the Gospel Oak-Barking line is now fully 710s. Recently travelled on a 4-car 378 on the Watford line, so surprised this isn't the case. We’ve had 3.5tph pretty much since the goblin was fully 710, so we’re half way there at least. 710s are expected to be introduced to the Watford line in the coming week.. I’d guess the service between peaks will remain 3.5tph rather than reduce to 3tph but we’ll see what happens. |
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Post by kmkcheng on Nov 5, 2019 17:42:17 GMT
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Post by Lukeo on Nov 5, 2019 18:16:03 GMT
Yess, finally! I doubt the line will be fully 710 by then though, but we’ll see.
EDIT
Just noticed: “They will operate alongside the existing trains currently in use on the route”
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