Route 364

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if there's a reason that this route can't be decked? It is so busy during the day, both peaks and the hours in between. From Ilford you need to get on at the first two stops to be sure of getting a seat. During school in and out times it's often the case that you just can't get on.
I'm pretty certain this route could be decked, no height restrictions, the side roads along the hail and ride sections in Ilford and Seven Kings seem to present no problems either. Possibly the sharp turn at the Meads Lane/Percy Road junction might be tricky, and possibly the Coventry Road right turn then left into Park Avenue heading to Ilford might be tight, but I've seen lorries doing these turns without a problem. 364 needs to be decked unless anyone knows different.

[vjaska]

Jun 19, 2018 13:00:07 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Does anyone know if there's a reason that this route can't be decked? It is so busy during the day, both peaks and the hours in between. From Ilford you need to get on at the first two stops to be sure of getting a seat. During school in and out times it's often the case that you just can't get on.
I'm pretty certain this route could be decked, no height restrictions, the side roads along the hail and ride sections in Ilford and Seven Kings seem to present no problems either. Possibly the sharp turn at the Meads Lane/Percy Road junction might be tricky, and possibly the Coventry Road right turn then left into Park Avenue heading to Ilford might be tight, but I've seen lorries doing these turns without a problem. 364 needs to be decked unless anyone knows different.

I think Blue Triangle threw out some of the TL class Lolynes on the route but I’m not 100% sure.

[wivenswold]

To think this route started out with a PVR of 9 Wright "Handybuses", it's been a success.

I remember being told by a friend at Barking Garage that the residents along the route between South Park Drive and Ilford had kicked up a stink about the possibility of double deck buses due to concerns about top-deck passengers staring into their bedrooms (net curtains anyone?). I can't remember whether it was over a proposed rerouting of the 145 or when the Handybuses proved to be too small and alternatives were being looked at. The 364 replaced, in part, the old 148. Which was always double decked until 1992 when East London decided to replace perfectly good Park Royal Titans with those awful Optare Deltas. Not a fan of those.

A similar complaint made it onto Newsroom South East in the 80s, I think it was in Mill Hill.

[busaholic]

I don't know the route, but, as a general observation, has there ever been a 'hail and ride' section on a double decker route in London? There probably has, or may even be one now, that I'm unaware of.

[snoggle]

Jun 19, 2018 16:15:30 GMT busaholic said:

I don't know the route, but, as a general observation, has there ever been a 'hail and ride' section on a double decker route in London? There probably has, or may even be one now, that I'm unaware of.

Route 230 has a hail and ride section in Upper Walthamstow. Has worked for years.

[busaholic]

Jun 19, 2018 16:40:40 GMT snoggle said:

Jun 19, 2018 16:15:30 GMT busaholic said:

I don't know the route, but, as a general observation, has there ever been a 'hail and ride' section on a double decker route in London? There probably has, or may even be one now, that I'm unaware of.

Route 230 has a hail and ride section in Upper Walthamstow. Has worked for years.

Last time I was on the 230 it was worked by a Routemaster and definitely no hail and ride.  So, there's no presumption on TfL's part that hail and ride sections are not suitable to be worked by dds, which I thought there might be.

[Eastlondoner62]

Jun 19, 2018 13:38:23 GMT vjaska said:

Jun 19, 2018 13:00:07 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Does anyone know if there's a reason that this route can't be decked? It is so busy during the day, both peaks and the hours in between. From Ilford you need to get on at the first two stops to be sure of getting a seat. During school in and out times it's often the case that you just can't get on.
I'm pretty certain this route could be decked, no height restrictions, the side roads along the hail and ride sections in Ilford and Seven Kings seem to present no problems either. Possibly the sharp turn at the Meads Lane/Percy Road junction might be tricky, and possibly the Coventry Road right turn then left into Park Avenue heading to Ilford might be tight, but I've seen lorries doing these turns without a problem. 364 needs to be decked unless anyone knows different.

I think Blue Triangle threw out some of the TL class Lolynes on the route but I’m not 100% sure.

I think that was the 368 they'd throw those out on.

With the 364 I think it's a case of no restrictions, but due to the roads it traverses it might trigger resident complaints so TfL probably just advise the operator to keep the route single deck.

[snoggle]

Jun 19, 2018 20:02:55 GMT busaholic said:

Jun 19, 2018 16:40:40 GMT snoggle said:

Route 230 has a hail and ride section in Upper Walthamstow. Has worked for years.

Last time I was on the 230 it was worked by a Routemaster and definitely no hail and ride.  So, there's no presumption on TfL's part that hail and ride sections are not suitable to be worked by dds, which I thought there might be.

Definitely not. The C3 also used to have hail and ride near Lots Road in Chelsea. That was removed a fair few years ago though. It just a bus that has to stop safely by the kerbside. The only possible issue with double decks would be tree branches overhanging a possible stopping position. My experience with hail and ride is that regular stopping positions soon become established and the locals know where to wait and the drivers know where to stop. Only on rare occasions have I seen this "abused" by people pressing bells every nanosecond. From comments on this forum the 336 is apparently a tad problematic for this but I've never used it so can't comment.

[busaholic]

Jun 19, 2018 20:21:36 GMT snoggle said:

Jun 19, 2018 20:02:55 GMT busaholic said:

Last time I was on the 230 it was worked by a Routemaster and definitely no hail and ride.  So, there's no presumption on TfL's part that hail and ride sections are not suitable to be worked by dds, which I thought there might be.

  My experience with hail and ride is that regular stopping positions soon become established and the locals know where to wait and the drivers know where to stop. Only on rare occasions have I seen this "abused" by people pressing bells every nanosecond. From comments on this forum the 336 is apparently a tad problematic for this but I've never used it so can't comment.

Bickley Man and Woman, I know them well.

[ThinLizzy]

Jun 19, 2018 13:00:07 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Does anyone know if there's a reason that this route can't be decked? It is so busy during the day, both peaks and the hours in between. From Ilford you need to get on at the first two stops to be sure of getting a seat. During school in and out times it's often the case that you just can't get on.
I'm pretty certain this route could be decked, no height restrictions, the side roads along the hail and ride sections in Ilford and Seven Kings seem to present no problems either. Possibly the sharp turn at the Meads Lane/Percy Road junction might be tricky, and possibly the Coventry Road right turn then left into Park Avenue heading to Ilford might be tight, but I've seen lorries doing these turns without a problem. 364 needs to be decked unless anyone knows different.

is the 364 busy enough all the time to justify a conversion to DD operation? I quite often use the 364 from Goodmayes or Becontree through to Dagenham Heathway at various times of the day and have never had to stand.

[Deleted]

Lol

Jun 19, 2018 21:19:34 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Jun 19, 2018 13:00:07 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Does anyone know if there's a reason that this route can't be decked? It is so busy during the day, both peaks and the hours in between. From Ilford you need to get on at the first two stops to be sure of getting a seat. During school in and out times it's often the case that you just can't get on.
I'm pretty certain this route could be decked, no height restrictions, the side roads along the hail and ride sections in Ilford and Seven Kings seem to present no problems either. Possibly the sharp turn at the Meads Lane/Percy Road junction might be tricky, and possibly the Coventry Road right turn then left into Park Avenue heading to Ilford might be tight, but I've seen lorries doing these turns without a problem. 364 needs to be decked unless anyone knows different.

is the 364 busy enough all the time to justify a conversion to DD operation? I quite often use the 364 from Goodmayes or Becontree through to Dagenham Heathway at various times of the day and have never had to stand.

Yes that part is okay, but Ilford to Goodmayes is a nightmare during the day.

[londonbuses2018]

I don’t know if I have said this before but can a double decker do Hail and Ride and when I mean Hail and Ride I don’t mean H2, I thinking about a route that goes from some areas with no stops but instead people can request the bus to stop would that be a bad idea?

[snoggle]

Jun 19, 2018 22:22:27 GMT londonbuses2018 said:

I don’t know if I have said this before but can a double decker do Hail and Ride and when I mean Hail and Ride I don’t mean H2, I thinking about a route that goes from some areas with no stops but instead people can request the bus to stop would that be a bad idea?

Look at my previous postings in this thread!

[chazzboi]

To be honest the only issue with converting the 364 into DDs would mean that the pvr would be decreased and also there isn’t enough demand past Goodmayes to justify a DD. And we all know that there is no way that half the route will be converted and the other half not. The real issue is that the buses need to be longer so they can hold more people (but that could be difficult due to the sharp turns) so a new timetable needs to be introduced with more buses on the Ilford- Goodmayes strech. Hopefully the tender in 2019 will bring about good things, but it’s well over due!! The route needs to be salvaged now to ensure people stay with the route and don’t just become uninterested.

[enviroPB]

Jul 8, 2018 15:29:49 GMT chazzboi said:

To be honest the only issue with converting the 364 into DDs would mean that the pvr would be decreased and also there isn’t enough demand past Goodmayes to justify a DD. And we all know that there is no way that half the route will be converted and the other half not. The real issue is that the buses need to be longer so they can hold more people (but that could be difficult due to the sharp turns) so a new timetable needs to be introduced with more buses on the Ilford- Goodmayes strech. Hopefully the tender in 2019 will bring about good things, but it’s well over due!! The route needs to be salvaged now to ensure people stay with the route and don’t just become uninterested.

In all honesty, the 364 has no chance of being decked with the residential roads it traverses between Goodmayes and Ilford. It would be nice; if it were ever allowed by residents, then I see no problem slapping double deckers on, reducing the frequency slightly and leaving half of the route (Martins Corner & southbound) a bit superfluous with capacity. Worse routes like the 13 are grossly overbussed on its section south of Baker Street tbh.

The real answer is another route passing through the Seven Kings area, and I am deeply saddened TfL didn't take the opportunity in its Crossrail changes to trundle another route through there. The easiest options would be to extend the 368 via High Road Goodmayes, Seven Kings Station and Aldborough Road South to terminate at Newbury Park Station (plenty of stand space there), or to extend the 179 to Ley Street, Benton Road, Seven Kings and Goodmayes to Chadwell Heath. Both of these suggestions were from Eastlondoner62 I think.