Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 22:59:21 GMT
You can’t reason with a public that won’t listen to sense or use logic mate. Stop trying, it’s clear it won’t work with some of the drivel I’ve seen on here, you’ll also notice that even though you’ve come up with reasoned explanations as you why nonsense has been spouted on here there has been deafening silence as a result. Speaks volumes though. Here’s what some people think: - strikes are essentially paid holidays - the staff vote for strikes to have a day off - only a few strike votes are good enough for a strike to be called - staff vote on WHEN to strike - not related, but some of these people even think trains are ‘steered’ by a wheel similar to that of a car. So it’s no wonder people are ignorant but that’s okay. I’m not a staunch defender of unions despite what some people may think of my defence of drivers but when people suggest that drivers are the ones to blame for strike action it does tickle me. It shows complete lack of understanding for the balloting process. Sadly we don’t strike simply to annoy people but the union will obviously look to hit LU hard so they will set the dates. This is a big one too because some drivers will lose two days pay, yet you see the feeling within the drivers camp that they are prepared to lose this money to stand up for something they believe in losing it for, and by a good turnout since the government introduced the trade unions bill. Sadly they are treated as though they are doing it for fun. As for those who are screaming for driverless trains, again this is sadly down to ignorance and I do feel embarrassed for them when they plaster it on here with the clear lack of knowledge they possess about the likelihood of that ever happening soon. The Piccadilly will NOT be cabless, the doors will NOT auto open and close (auto open only is being considered but they scrapped this on the S stock) and therefore there will always need to be someone in the front. And they forget the threat of terrorism... look at the heroes of 7/7 when the staff calmly helped those in dire need. Terrorism WILL happen again, it’s the world we live in, so when the public ask for help from drivers when someone is only feeling unwell, how are they going to cope with another attack? Hmmm I think your letting your emotions get the better of you By stating facts? Nope, I’m not the one wishing the impossible 😉
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 23:00:28 GMT
You can’t reason with a public that won’t listen to sense or use logic mate. Stop trying, it’s clear it won’t work with some of the drivel I’ve seen on here, you’ll also notice that even though you’ve come up with reasoned explanations as you why nonsense has been spouted on here there has been deafening silence as a result. Speaks volumes though. Here’s what some people think: - strikes are essentially paid holidays - the staff vote for strikes to have a day off - only a few strike votes are good enough for a strike to be called - staff vote on WHEN to strike - not related, but some of these people even think trains are ‘steered’ by a wheel similar to that of a car. So it’s no wonder people are ignorant but that’s okay. I’m not a staunch defender of unions despite what some people may think of my defence of drivers but when people suggest that drivers are the ones to blame for strike action it does tickle me. It shows complete lack of understanding for the balloting process. Sadly we don’t strike simply to annoy people but the union will obviously look to hit LU hard so they will set the dates. This is a big one too because some drivers will lose two days pay, yet you see the feeling within the drivers camp that they are prepared to lose this money to stand up for something they believe in losing it for, and by a good turnout since the government introduced the trade unions bill. Sadly they are treated as though they are doing it for fun. As for those who are screaming for driverless trains, again this is sadly down to ignorance and I do feel embarrassed for them when they plaster it on here with the clear lack of knowledge they possess about the likelihood of that ever happening soon. The Piccadilly will NOT be cabless, the doors will NOT auto open and close (auto open only is being considered but they scrapped this on the S stock) and therefore there will always need to be someone in the front. And they forget the threat of terrorism... look at the heroes of 7/7 when the staff calmly helped those in dire need. Terrorism WILL happen again, it’s the world we live in, so when the public ask for help from drivers when someone is only feeling unwell, how are they going to cope with another attack? Hmmm I'm afraid you're flogging the proverbial dead horse if you think you're going to get any public support and inevitably there will be increased calls for driverless trains. I don’t deny that mate, sadly these calls will fall on deaf ears and I continue to get paid. Winning
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Sept 25, 2018 23:06:58 GMT
What is all this "sack the drivers" nonsense? The Picc Line has a very heavy RMT presence amongst the drivers. It rarely puts on any "short" service on a strike day. I should know - I've stood outside enough Picc Line stations giving strike day travel advice. If you sack all the RMT drivers they would then simply go on strike on the rest of the network. The network would then be shut which would be unacceptable to the Mayor as it gives his Tory opponents a great big stick to hit him over the head with. That's the party political aspect. In terms of more general politics the last thing the Mayor needs is the Tube being shut - it'll screw his reputation, screw a weakening London economy and cause utter havoc. It'll also shaft TfL's finances if it went on for more than a couple of days. So that's all a "big win" isn't it? The Mayor has already made a commitment that the new trains won't be driverless so I can't see why that would be a factor in a current dispute. The Picc Line is in dire shape - the service is appalling with large peak time gaps in the service and at other times. I believe the line is also under strength in terms of drivers (day and night). I suspect LU's way of "managing" this is to increase the usual "macho management" tactics which fail time and time again. I don't know why someone doesn't try grown up management instead. And yes the unions can and often are a right old pain in the backside on LU. Yes they think they run the railway. Yes industrial relations on the train side have been awful for decades. So both sides need to grow up and learn how to have sensible discussions. Strikes and threatening to sack people get you precisely nowhere. I actually miss Bob Crow and Howard Collins. Bob died and Howard opted for the sunshine of Australia. At least those two could have a sensible discussion and get to an agreement. Despite all the vilification of Bob Crow he knew what was needed and was not afraid to negotiate and compromise. You can’t reason with a public that won’t listen to sense or use logic mate. Stop trying, it’s clear it won’t work with some of the drivel I’ve seen on here, you’ll also notice that even though you’ve come up with reasoned explanations as you why nonsense has been spouted on here there has been deafening silence as a result. Speaks volumes though. Here’s what some people think: - strikes are essentially paid holidays - the staff vote for strikes to have a day off - only a few strike votes are good enough for a strike to be called - staff vote on WHEN to strike - not related, but some of these people even think trains are ‘steered’ by a wheel similar to that of a car. So it’s no wonder people are ignorant but that’s okay. I’m not a staunch defender of unions despite what some people may think of my defence of drivers but when people suggest that drivers are the ones to blame for strike action it does tickle me. It shows complete lack of understanding for the balloting process. Sadly we don’t strike simply to annoy people but the union will obviously look to hit LU hard so they will set the dates. This is a big one too because some drivers will lose two days pay, yet you see the feeling within the drivers camp that they are prepared to lose this money to stand up for something they believe in losing it for, and by a good turnout since the government introduced the trade unions bill. Sadly they are treated as though they are doing it for fun. As for those who are screaming for driverless trains, again this is sadly down to ignorance and I do feel embarrassed for them when they plaster it on here with the clear lack of knowledge they possess about the likelihood of that ever happening soon. The Piccadilly will NOT be cabless, the doors will NOT auto open and close (auto open only is being considered but they scrapped this on the S stock) and therefore there will always need to be someone in the front. And they forget the threat of terrorism... look at the heroes of 7/7 when the staff calmly helped those in dire need. Terrorism WILL happen again, it’s the world we live in, so when the public ask for help from drivers when someone is only feeling unwell, how are they going to cope with another attack? Hmmm Driverless tubes .... They are reality! Look at the major cities with them. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systemsIt is only the unions that thwart there introduction here! From here and other forums it seems rail workers are so up their own asses with delusions of grandeur ... when the fact is you are not really needed .. you are not really that important ... starting and stopping a train is a repetitive action that can be automated, much like fault diagnostics and fixing. Automated trains will not go through red signals, so that is most of the safety critical errors that occur on railways these days eradicated in one go!
|
|
|
Post by joefrombow on Sept 26, 2018 0:34:22 GMT
You can’t reason with a public that won’t listen to sense or use logic mate. Stop trying, it’s clear it won’t work with some of the drivel I’ve seen on here, you’ll also notice that even though you’ve come up with reasoned explanations as you why nonsense has been spouted on here there has been deafening silence as a result. Speaks volumes though. Here’s what some people think: - strikes are essentially paid holidays - the staff vote for strikes to have a day off - only a few strike votes are good enough for a strike to be called - staff vote on WHEN to strike - not related, but some of these people even think trains are ‘steered’ by a wheel similar to that of a car. So it’s no wonder people are ignorant but that’s okay. I’m not a staunch defender of unions despite what some people may think of my defence of drivers but when people suggest that drivers are the ones to blame for strike action it does tickle me. It shows complete lack of understanding for the balloting process. Sadly we don’t strike simply to annoy people but the union will obviously look to hit LU hard so they will set the dates. This is a big one too because some drivers will lose two days pay, yet you see the feeling within the drivers camp that they are prepared to lose this money to stand up for something they believe in losing it for, and by a good turnout since the government introduced the trade unions bill. Sadly they are treated as though they are doing it for fun. As for those who are screaming for driverless trains, again this is sadly down to ignorance and I do feel embarrassed for them when they plaster it on here with the clear lack of knowledge they possess about the likelihood of that ever happening soon. The Piccadilly will NOT be cabless, the doors will NOT auto open and close (auto open only is being considered but they scrapped this on the S stock) and therefore there will always need to be someone in the front. And they forget the threat of terrorism... look at the heroes of 7/7 when the staff calmly helped those in dire need. Terrorism WILL happen again, it’s the world we live in, so when the public ask for help from drivers when someone is only feeling unwell, how are they going to cope with another attack? Hmmm Driverless tubes .... They are reality! Look at the major cities with them. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systemsIt is only the unions that thwart there introduction here! From here and other forums it seems rail workers are so up their own asses with delusions of grandeur ... when the fact is you are not really needed .. you are not really that important ... starting and stopping a train is a repetitive action that can be automated, much like fault diagnostics and fixing. Automated trains will not go through red signals, so that is most of the safety critical errors that occur on railways these days eradicated in one go! 😂 Interesting view point but a very illogical one at best , The same can be said for basically any number of professions going with your view for example we don't need staff on tills in Tesco anymore as we have self service machines so let's get rid of them have staffless shops , we also don't need staff at any stations anymore as we have ticket machines and help points let's get rid of them too , when there are fire alerts etc passengers can work out what to do themselves same as when trespassers are on the line etc and a whole other number of things that could happen on a daily basis in a big city with a train carrying thousands of people let the commuters work out what to do , what the heck we have automated vehicles now so let's get rid of Bus Drivers the technology is there everyone has Oyster or Smartcards/Contactless why do we need Bus Drivers ?
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 26, 2018 0:40:48 GMT
I think your letting your emotions get the better of you By stating facts? Nope, I’m not the one wishing the impossible 😉 No but by using sentences such as "You can’t reason with a public that won’t listen to sense or use logic", your argument starts to weaken rather than respectfully recognising that not everyone will share the same view I'm not wishing anything and I repeat I merely gave an opinion - from that, I gather you didn't read my PM which is entirely your call but rather disappointing all the same. I shall leave it there
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Sept 26, 2018 5:24:18 GMT
What is the Strike actually over ? 😉 Taken from the RMT Press Release 11 Sept when strike was announced “The action comes after the abject failure by Tube bosses to deliver on a raft of issues including an end to the abuse of policies and procedures, delays and cancellations to planned training, failure to release reps for important meetings and dragging their feet over implementation on key health and safety issues.“ Translation : raft of issues = lots of small things, maybe toilet paper in staff rest rooms not soft enough, wrong brand of tea in canteen etc abuse of policies = we don’t like the policies because they stop drivers skimping on job (note it is not non compliance with policies) delays to training = this happens everywhere, so what, irrelevant unless something new to learn failure to release reps = dozy rep forgot to arrange cover / or book time off so couldn’t go to meeting dragging their feet = just haven’t got around to it yet (but obviously not important as Railway Inspectorate or Health &Safety Executive hasn’t taken an action) key health = union thinks anyone with slight sniffle or cold should get paid time off
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 26, 2018 5:32:59 GMT
I'm afraid you're flogging the proverbial dead horse if you think you're going to get any public support and inevitably there will be increased calls for driverless trains. I don’t deny that mate, sadly these calls will fall on deaf ears and I continue to get paid. Winning It's surely only a matter of time until we do have driverless tubes?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 6:48:41 GMT
I don’t deny that mate, sadly these calls will fall on deaf ears and I continue to get paid. Winning It's surely only a matter of time until we do have driverless tubes? It will be at least 40 odd years, if you look at the state of the infrastructure and that’s on the first line to get ready. Again people are missing vital points and that is the thing. Unless one has actual knowledge about the railway they simply don’t know what they are talking about. I’m sure LU also, for example, attempted to compare the system with others and this is why they make the same basic mistakes when it comes to upgrades.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 26, 2018 7:00:56 GMT
It's surely only a matter of time until we do have driverless tubes? It will be at least 40 odd years, if you look at the state of the infrastructure and that’s on the first line to get ready. Again people are missing vital points and that is the thing. Unless one has actual knowledge about the railway they simply don’t know what they are talking about. I’m sure LU also, for example, attempted to compare the system with others and this is why they make the same basic mistakes when it comes to upgrades. There are plans to run driverless trains on the Glasgow subway in the next few years and of course they are already in use on parts of the Paris metro.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Sept 26, 2018 7:38:42 GMT
It's surely only a matter of time until we do have driverless tubes? It will be at least 40 odd years, if you look at the state of the infrastructure and that’s on the first line to get ready. Again people are missing vital points and that is the thing. Unless one has actual knowledge about the railway they simply don’t know what they are talking about. I’m sure LU also, for example, attempted to compare the system with others and this is why they make the same basic mistakes when it comes to upgrades. Oh I have seen this argument elsewhere, rail workers are some magical gods that must be obeyed by the ignorant passenger ... fact is, rail workers think they are far more important than they actually are ... afraid you have been listening to your union mantra too much. Yes it will take investment .... but if there is the will and the money .... it can happen a lot sooner than 40 years on whichever line is picked first. Every time there is a train\tube strike .... the support for this kind of investment will grow! I suggest you get abroad to witness how real and how well automated rail systems work ... and not affected by drivers strikes!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 8:29:38 GMT
It will be at least 40 odd years, if you look at the state of the infrastructure and that’s on the first line to get ready. Again people are missing vital points and that is the thing. Unless one has actual knowledge about the railway they simply don’t know what they are talking about. I’m sure LU also, for example, attempted to compare the system with others and this is why they make the same basic mistakes when it comes to upgrades. Oh I have seen this argument elsewhere, rail workers are some magical gods that must be obeyed by the ignorant passenger ... fact is, rail workers think they are far more important than they actually are ... afraid you have been listening to your union mantra too much. Yes it will take investment .... but if there is the will and the money .... it can happen a lot sooner than 40 years on whichever line is picked first. Every time there is a train\tube strike .... the support for this kind of investment will grow! I suggest you get abroad to witness how real and how well automated rail systems work ... and not affected by drivers strikes! You are talking about people's paid jobs and livelihoods here. Whilst there are good points on both sides of this topic, I suggest that a bit more respect to be shown.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 8:33:21 GMT
Some people's attitudes on this thread ARE frankly embarrassing, and all stems down to a lack of education and prior thought.
I wonder how many people on here are also readers of sensationalist newspapers like the Daily Mail, The Express and Evening Standard ...
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 26, 2018 8:40:17 GMT
Oh I have seen this argument elsewhere, rail workers are some magical gods that must be obeyed by the ignorant passenger ... fact is, rail workers think they are far more important than they actually are ... afraid you have been listening to your union mantra too much. Yes it will take investment .... but if there is the will and the money .... it can happen a lot sooner than 40 years on whichever line is picked first. Every time there is a train\tube strike .... the support for this kind of investment will grow! I suggest you get abroad to witness how real and how well automated rail systems work ... and not affected by drivers strikes! You are talking about people's paid jobs and livelihoods here. Whilst there are good points on both sides of this topic, I suggest that a bit more respect to be shown.
It's also worth bearing in mind that many people are going to have difficulty getting to their paid job because of this industrial action, a bit more respect for them might not go amiss? The newspapers that you mentioned are surely just reflecting public opinion?
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Sept 26, 2018 8:48:19 GMT
Oh I have seen this argument elsewhere, rail workers are some magical gods that must be obeyed by the ignorant passenger ... fact is, rail workers think they are far more important than they actually are ... afraid you have been listening to your union mantra too much. Yes it will take investment .... but if there is the will and the money .... it can happen a lot sooner than 40 years on whichever line is picked first. Every time there is a train\tube strike .... the support for this kind of investment will grow! I suggest you get abroad to witness how real and how well automated rail systems work ... and not affected by drivers strikes! You are talking about people's paid jobs and livelihoods here. Whilst there are good points on both sides of this topic, I suggest that a bit more respect to be shown.
Striking rail crews is also talking about affecting members of the public's jobs and livelihoods ... Maybe they are getting the respect they deserve! Oh and I don't lack an education thank you!!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 8:50:17 GMT
You are talking about people's paid jobs and livelihoods here. Whilst there are good points on both sides of this topic, I suggest that a bit more respect to be shown.
It's also worth bearing in mind that many people are going to have difficulty getting to their paid job because of this industrial action, a bit more respect for them might not go amiss? The newspapers that you mentioned are surely just reflecting public opinion? Respect all round Sid. At the moment I have seen very little evidence of this.
It is said papers that gives the public their opinion. Just think, what would Diana do?
|
|