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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 17, 2020 1:10:21 GMT
No, it's not unrealistic to ask this but remember, if you got a job in bus management the modern arena is a cut-throat industry. These feelings of being an enthusiast and being a good person would be tossed to the wind. You're dealing with an industry which thinks taking one minute off one dead run on one trip on weekdays saves half a shift over the year - where could it all end up if we do this several times? Being petty and penny-pinching is the only way someone will succeed these days in management. Don't even think about cleaning buses or shelling out for PPE....... Go for it, but really, good intentions and a keen attitude won't wash with modern day operators. I think most transport firms have a lot of enthusiasts working in leadership and technical roles. There's nothing wrong with having an interest. Enthusiast or not, it's those who fail to excise sound judgement or align with the needs of the business that the company won't want. Saving that minute may seem petty, but if you save a duty a day, the thousands that will save over the year could be the difference between winning a route and diluting the return on the fixed costs of operation, like depot parking space. Even looking at the TfL tenders page, sometimes the difference between the winning and highest bids is less than the cost of a duty. Some people love complaining about tight travel times and dead running times. But they don't appreciate that the company may not have won that work for them to complain about if it was any higher! |
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 17, 2020 1:24:43 GMT
We do have the option to do placement years in my course, but it wasn’t something that I paid much attention to this year because it was only recently when I realised what it was I wanted to do. Getting a placement year will definitely be something I’ll focus on when I go back in September for the next year.  I am also in the same position, second year however studying Chemistry so a little different. I almost had a summer placement organised in the industry however given the current situation this sadly hasn't come to fruition  . Many others in my year have also lost out on placements or simply given up trying across all sectors. Nevertheless it is an avenue I am still actively seeking. Placements really are key and given the slightly reduced workload of 3rd year I have hopes a part time, once a week placement may be ideal. It is nice to know of several people in my exact same position, happy to talk at anytime about it You're doing Chemistry - is that a 4 year MSc course? It's a very unfortunate time for all concerned regarding placements, both current and future. The economy will build up again and there will be opportunities once again. |
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Post by LT 20181 on Apr 17, 2020 2:43:29 GMT
Okay, now, I have been thinking about this for some time. I'm not sure how (un)realistic this'll sound, but let's see what people think. I'm currently in my second year at uni (well, I was until the lockdown came). I'm studying Business Management with Accounting. When I graduate (hopefully by the next year or two), I'm thinking about pursuing a career with my degree in the London bus industry. With my degree which I'm hoping to graduate with, if I want a career with an operator like the RATP Group, what sort of job placements would I be, you know, offered with? You're already ahead of a significant proportion of the competition by having an idea of where you want to apply for. What type of career are you after in the industry? First bit of advice. If it's not too late, apply to do a year's industrial placement. I was on a 3 year course and it wasn't a problem to switch to a 4 year sandwich course after securing a year in industry placement. Make sure Student Finance handle it properly if you use them. Those with privileged backgrounds are taught how to kick start their careers. From first year they'll be doing experience days at the type of firms they're interested in, internships between semesters, summer internships and sometimes a 3rd year industrial placement. All whilst constantly swatting up on topical matters happening in their industry of choice. There are many benefits to doing these things. When it comes time to join the graduate scheme competition, the experience makes for a strong CV. The topical knowledge and depth of understanding of the industry will impress recruiters. And being in the workplace environment allows for networking. Once you build a reputation for being intelligent and competent, you'll find that helps to open doors at the start and throughout your career. Transport firms tend to be on the lookout for rising stars with their graduate schemes. They'll be looking for future managers, leaders and directors, which is entirely achievable if that's what you want and you play the game right. One way to progress is to move around a business. Showcase your talents. Meet people. Get a reputation which makes it clear that you'll be an asset to the teams you want to work in. Graduate schemes are designed to expose you to all areas of the business. As has been stated, if you apply for the likes of Abellio, Arriva, Go-Ahead Group, First, National Express, Stagecoach etc you will probably do placements at divisions all over the UK. Some will allow you to do bus and rail but I'm sure there will be an option to just do buses if that's where you want to go. It's a 24/7 industry so you'll do rotations where you work shifts and some where you work office hours learning about the white collar side of things. As the part of my course I’m studying is mostly business and finance based, I’m looking for a career in the industry that's more suited to the course I'm studying. So I’m looking at something like helping to manage an operator’s finances or working on bidding on routes that are out to tender or even work on improving company performance. This is the type of work in the bus industry I'm looking for. For sentimental reasons I chose the RATP Group as my preferred company to work for. This would be something I’d talk about with the placement team when I get back to uni, which hopefully should be soon. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 17, 2020 11:27:18 GMT
I think most transport firms have a lot of enthusiasts working in leadership and technical roles. There's nothing wrong with having an interest. Enthusiast or not, it's those who fail to excise sound judgement or align with the needs of the business that the company won't want. Saving that minute may seem petty, but if you save a duty a day, the thousands that will save over the year could be the difference between winning a route and diluting the return on the fixed costs of operation, like depot parking space. Even looking at the TfL tenders page, sometimes the difference between the winning and highest bids is less than the cost of a duty. Some people love complaining about tight travel times and dead running times. But they don't appreciate that the company may not have won that work for them to complain about if it was any higher! The tone of my post earlier stems from the atmosphere when my ex-landlord was doing his operator CPC course. While he could see that being efficient and aware of costs was of benefit to the business, he was dismayed that the culture looked at things so tightly and there didn't seem to be any wriggle room for anything. The exercises he had, which he showed me meant to achieve the right result you had to push things right to the boundaries (in terms of driving times, amount of hours in a day, breaks etc). The bit about cleaning buses was from info passed on by the in-laws. I know the tone of it was a bit negative but what I was getting at was that the industry might not be as nice as some people think it may be. The one minute example was one we discussed at the time! We went for a one minute reduction on one trip, Monday to Friday (5 minutes), over 4 weeks (20 minutes) and then over the year (4hrs20mins). If there was a PVR of 10 doing this it's 19hrs20mins a year. Reduce a morning trip (say) and you've saved a weeks worth of work. It was these sort of exercises and theories that came up in the CPC course. |
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Post by Gellico on Apr 18, 2020 11:37:05 GMT
I am also in the same position, second year however studying Chemistry so a little different. I almost had a summer placement organised in the industry however given the current situation this sadly hasn't come to fruition . Many others in my year have also lost out on placements or simply given up trying across all sectors. Nevertheless it is an avenue I am still actively seeking. Placements really are key and given the slightly reduced workload of 3rd year I have hopes a part time, once a week placement may be ideal. It is nice to know of several people in my exact same position, happy to talk at anytime about it You're doing Chemistry - is that a 4 year MSc course? It's a very unfortunate time for all concerned regarding placements, both current and future. The economy will build up again and there will be opportunities once again. It is currently a Bsc so really leaves me in a tricky position regarding placements. |
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Post by TP1 on May 5, 2020 9:32:11 GMT
Are there any active or former Arriva London North drivers on here? After a bit of advice and honest reviews.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jun 28, 2020 14:08:34 GMT
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Post by rogerout on Jul 3, 2020 17:19:57 GMT
Hi guys, currently furloughed from a local coach company, on the Kent coast. I got an email today from Go ahead London who said they were looking for experienced PCV holders ( I got my licence from a London operator some years back. I applied last year but withdrew my application.
The thing is my nearest depots are about 50 miles away, just over an hour drive. How secure are London driver jobs and does any know of anyone that commutes a long way. Apparently the top pay is shy of £15 ph at Go- ahead. Any advice?.. I’m currently on £10 for a company I’m furloughed on.
Just debating the travel time with the London pay.
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Post by TB123 on Jul 3, 2020 17:39:03 GMT
Hi guys, currently furloughed from a local coach company, on the Kent coast. I got an email today from Go ahead London who said they were looking for experienced PCV holders ( I got my licence from a London operator some years back. I applied last year but withdrew my application. The thing is my nearest depots are about 50 miles away, just over an hour drive. How secure are London driver jobs and does any know of anyone that commutes a long way. Apparently the top pay is shy of £15 ph at Go- ahead. Any advice?.. I’m currently on £10 for a company I’m furloughed on. Just debating the travel time with the London pay. Compared to coach work, London is a lot more stable. The downside is having to deal with far more punters. As for the commute, I don't drive buses but I work on the buses and I commute 25/30 miles to work, for a while I commuted a similar distance to your possible commute and I thought it was fine. If you fancy a challenge, I say go for it. |
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Post by rogerout on Jul 3, 2020 18:43:00 GMT
Many thanks for your response. I think commuting that way I’d ideally need to work late shifts, to avoid travelling in rush hour times.
So you think 45/50 miles isn’t too far for a commute?
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Post by MoEnviro on Jul 3, 2020 18:53:29 GMT
Many thanks for your response. I think commuting that way I’d ideally need to work late shifts, to avoid travelling in rush hour times. So you think 45/50 miles isn’t too far for a commute? I think you may find at many of the garages on the outskirts of London attract drivers travelling a similar distance. I suppose it’s to get the better rate of pay, but as previously said you would have to deal with potentially more passengers and Ibus of course. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 3, 2020 18:57:07 GMT
Many thanks for your response. I think commuting that way I’d ideally need to work late shifts, to avoid travelling in rush hour times. So you think 45/50 miles isn’t too far for a commute? There are a lot of drivers at BX who live along the A2 corridor some as far as Thanet. |
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Post by rogerout on Jul 3, 2020 19:37:41 GMT
With regards to IBUS and London passengers, I worked for a London operator from 2010-2012. So have experienced with that. I left the industry then returned to a coach company in 2017.
BX and MB are the only depots I could consider, on the outskirts of London. Interesting that some BX drivers commute to Thanet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 20:17:49 GMT
Many thanks for your response. I think commuting that way I’d ideally need to work late shifts, to avoid travelling in rush hour times. So you think 45/50 miles isn’t too far for a commute? There are a lot of drivers at BX who live along the A2 corridor some as far as Thanet. Indeed. Even drivers at Morden Wharf coming in from deep into Essex and the Medway Towns. The pay rates in London, particularly for Go Ahead, are considerably higher than non-London operators so it entices drivers into outer London garages that still pay London rates. |
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Post by Catford94 on Jul 3, 2020 22:36:48 GMT
a few thoughts -
Also aware that some of the Outer London operators have drivers who live as far away as the south coast / Essex coast, although not sure they would have been taken on while living there, or whether they were living closer to base when they started then moved. I expect they won't be all that willing to make allowances for lateness if the M2 clogs up, or bad weather in the middle of winter.
Can't say whether GA have current vacancies at Bexleyheath or Orpington - even as far back as LT days, there was a tendency to have vacancies at the inner London garages and a waiting list of drivers wanting to transfer to the outer suburbs (or at least before the 'Bexleybus' thing happened in the late 80s)
Have seen Go-Ahead adverts point out that they don't guarantee to provide staff car parking at their garages. While it's not entirely social, there are plenty of residential streets round BX with unrestricted parking, but that's less the case round the garages further in.
Also happened to notice that Stagecoach are advertising this week for existing licence holders at garages including Plumstead. And Arriva Dartford usually seem to be advertising. Have noticed some agencies advertising for drivers for some of the London operators as well (try a jobs site like 'indeed' and search on bus driver)
When comparing pay, it's worth trying to find out what enhanced rates there are for 'unsocial hours' / weekend work / long duties / long spreadovers. Some places have a higher 'headline' rate but that applies to everything, other places have a lower basic rate but over the course of time you can earn a reasonable bit more. then there's the question of whether breaks are paid / unpaid / somewhere between the two.
Not sure how realistic the idea of going on to regular lates is, certainly straight off.
Some operators / garages do have rotas that only do early / middle / late duties, but not sure it's that common (sometimes it's a small rota for people with specific family / caring responsibilities) or how much choice a newcomer will have.
Most places you start on a 'spare' rota then go on to a rota (usually one route per rota, although there's always exceptions) which includes early, middle, late and spreadover / split duties. the latter can be a particular pain if you live a long way from the depot and wouldn't have time go get home but still have a few hours off - possibly unpaid - mid day.
Getting on to particular rotas is usually a matter of waiting for a vacancy on any rota then seniority (in LT days there was often an 'old mans rota' at each garage - usually a relatively quiet suburban route - that only the longest serving staff got on to.
There's no one simple answer, even within one of the larger London companies. GA London (for example) includes bits that were London Central, London General, Metrobus and (north of the river) First London, so pay and conditions, as well as how rotas work, will vary from one garage to another.
Having said that, there's no harm in asking, and there is usually the chance to seek out mutual swaps of duty (some drivers are happy to get rid of late duties) but it's up to the driver/s involved to sort this out and then get it OK'd by depot staff (they will usually OK exchanges of duty so long as they don't break drivers hours rules in some way), but it's not the responsibility of depot allocation staff to try and do it for you, so if you can't arrange a swap, you're expected to do what the rota says.
As for job security, I'm not aware of London operators making drivers redundant in recent memory, although with the current state of public (government / TFL) finances, don't think anything's certain, but there's usually quite a turn-over of staff. One thing that can happen in London is when a route is re-tendered, if it passes to another operator, drivers can get compulsorily transferred with it to new operator (and wherever they run it from). The staff shortage in London in recent years has meant that most operators will offer drivers the chance to stay with them and transfer to another route, but this isn't guaranteed.
Best of luck.
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. Many others in my year have also lost out on placements or simply given up trying across all sectors. Nevertheless it is an avenue I am still actively seeking. Placements really are key and given the slightly reduced workload of 3rd year I have hopes a part time, once a week placement may be ideal.
