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Post by ian on Sept 24, 2020 21:36:57 GMT
I’m not surprised to see it busy in the photo.
I have done about 10 or so eastbound journeys since the changes started. At the least there were always a handful of passengers from Edgware & Mill Hill and sometimes quite a few more. I have also seen some buses at school times really very busy. I also observed a few people boarding at the Glendor Gardens/Apex Corner and The Fairway stops heading eastbound to Arkley or beyond, so there is demand. I can see it becoming really quite popular post-pandemic.
I also noticed some people making interesting new bus-to-bus interchanges – particularly onto the 307 eastbound. 384/307 looks like a good combination to head east quickly (say to Enfield) at the right time of day. I also observed a couple changing onto 298: who could argue with say Apex Corner to Potters Bar for £1.50 and pretty fast at that? Almost all buses traversed Salisbury Rd fine. There was one exception when a driver was SO tentative and slow that every time he edged forward another car came from the opposite end. But overall, no real problems with that aspect (despite the two protest posters visible in windows on that street).
I do agree some of the H&R sections are bit unclear but they are clearly announced as H&R sections on the bus rather than non-stop so hopefully that will settle down. And I would have thought it was possible to install stops in some places like Park Road, perhaps.
I noticed someone had put up old-school timetables at the stops in Arkley – clearly not TfL, perhaps someone printing them off from the Robert Munster website or similar!
I also think serving the old stop by The Jester wouldn’t be a problem and wouldn’t add more than a minute to the journey so can see that working.
Overall, having experienced it a fair few times now I can see it shaping up well (whilst acknowledging the issues caused by the changes).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 14:03:25 GMT
I’m not surprised to see it busy in the photo. I have done about 10 or so eastbound journeys since the changes started. At the least there were always a handful of passengers from Edgware & Mill Hill and sometimes quite a few more. I have also seen some buses at school times really very busy. I also observed a few people boarding at the Glendor Gardens/Apex Corner and The Fairway stops heading eastbound to Arkley or beyond, so there is demand. I can see it becoming really quite popular post-pandemic. I also noticed some people making interesting new bus-to-bus interchanges – particularly onto the 307 eastbound. 384/307 looks like a good combination to head east quickly (say to Enfield) at the right time of day. I also observed a couple changing onto 298: who could argue with say Apex Corner to Potters Bar for £1.50 and pretty fast at that? Almost all buses traversed Salisbury Rd fine. There was one exception when a driver was SO tentative and slow that every time he edged forward another car came from the opposite end. But overall, no real problems with that aspect (despite the two protest posters visible in windows on that street). I do agree some of the H&R sections are bit unclear but they are clearly announced as H&R sections on the bus rather than non-stop so hopefully that will settle down. And I would have thought it was possible to install stops in some places like Park Road, perhaps. I noticed someone had put up old-school timetables at the stops in Arkley – clearly not TfL, perhaps someone printing them off from the Robert Munster website or similar! I also think serving the old stop by The Jester wouldn’t be a problem and wouldn’t add more than a minute to the journey so can see that working. Overall, having experienced it a fair few times now I can see it shaping up well (whilst acknowledging the issues caused by the changes). Regarding the timetables - there was an issue with the software/program so they weren't able to be printed in the correct format. The raw data was provided instead as a interim measure - something I've certainly not seen before! Some of the stops now have the new style timetables but not all have been updated yet.
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Post by uakari on Sept 29, 2020 14:51:01 GMT
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Post by lonmark on Sept 29, 2020 15:35:36 GMT
Ah I see but don't lorry and van doing the same thing go that road as well as bus 384! From what I understand that local MP needs to the warning message to TfL and Local Council to get bus reroute or ban lorry/van enter that road or make whole road as one way only?
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Post by vjaska on Sept 29, 2020 15:37:50 GMT
The 384 also uses Carnavon Road and used to use Stafford Road all which are similar in length (Salisbury Road is only ever so slightly longer) and are identical in terms of how narrow they are. What is particularly special about Salisbury Road compared to the other two roads - my guess would be it's used a lot more than the other two roads I mentioned?
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Post by vjaska on Sept 29, 2020 15:39:34 GMT
Ah I see but don't lorry and van doing the same thing go that road as well as bus 384! From what I understand that local MP needs to the warning message to TfL and Local Council to get bus reroute or ban lorry/van enter that road or make whole road as one way only? TBF, from what I've read, the local MP's on all sides are united and asked TfL on several occasions to review the decision again regarding the restructuring the route itself so they can't be blamed on this particular issue.
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Post by uakari on Sept 29, 2020 15:57:32 GMT
The 384 also uses Carnavon Road and used to use Stafford Road all which are similar in length (Salisbury Road is only ever so slightly longer) and are identical in terms of how narrow they are. What is particularly special about Salisbury Road compared to the other two roads - my guess would be it's used a lot more than the other two roads I mentioned? The 384 has never used Carnarvon Road. It now goes via Strafford Road westbound and Salisbury Road eastbound. The previous route was via Alston and Strafford roads in both directions, which was tried and tested for more that 30 years (route 385 before that). This routing has passing places and two car parks at either end of Strafford Road for smaller vehicles to divert into when they see an oncoming bus. Strafford Road is straight and shorter, so vehicles can see the bus before they turn into the road, whereas Salisbury is long with a bend in it, so vehicles can't see each other until they are nearly in the middle of the road. Plus the old routing meant that people in Calvert, Puller, Alston, Wrotham and Falkland roads were within 450m of a southbound/eastbound bus, which is no longer the case. It was also closer and less of a hazardous walk for passengers for The Spires and Chipping Barnet Library. There was nothing wrong with the old routing, but I can see them responding by trying to divert the bus via Wood Street instead, thus cutting off the residents, schools and children's hospice in Wentworth / Byng roads from a bus for more than 800m. Similar safety incidents passing other vehicles are also occurring at the junction of Victoria Road and Park Road. TfL were warned again and again that this would happen, but making the route more 'direct' (not for people who have lost the service altogether) was what they cared about.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 29, 2020 16:00:54 GMT
The 384 also uses Carnavon Road and used to use Stafford Road all which are similar in length (Salisbury Road is only ever so slightly longer) and are identical in terms of how narrow they are. What is particularly special about Salisbury Road compared to the other two roads - my guess would be it's used a lot more than the other two roads I mentioned? The 384 has never used Carnarvon Road. The previous route was via Alston and Strafford roads in both directions, which was tried and tested for more that 30 years (route 385 before that). This routing has passing places and two car parks at either end of Strafford Road for smaller vehicles to divert into when they see an oncoming bus. Strafford Road is straight and shorter, so vehicles can see the bus before they turn into the road, whereas Salisbury is long with a bend in it, so vehicles can't see each other until they are nearly in the middle of the road. Plus the old routing meant that people in Calvert, Puller, Alston, Wrotham and Falkland roads were within 450m of a southbound/eastbound bus, which is no longer the case. It was also closer and less of a hazardous walk for passengers for The Spires and Chipping Barnet Library. There was nothing wrong with the old routing, but I can see them responding by trying to divert the bus via Wood Street instead, thus cutting off the residents, schools and children's hospice in Wentworth / Byng roads from a bus for more than 800m. Similar safety incidents passing other vehicles are also occurring at the junction of Victoria Road and Park Road. TfL were warned again and again that this would happen, but making the route more 'direct' (not for people who have lost the service altogether) was what they cared about. Thanks for the corrections and the clarifications
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 16:31:04 GMT
A one-way system would work perfectly here - perhaps LBB can factor this in as part of their Streetspace/LTN/Healthy Streets/Cycleways/Quietways plans?
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Post by uakari on Sept 29, 2020 17:20:38 GMT
A one-way system would work perfectly here - perhaps LBB can factor this in as part of their Streetspace/LTN/Healthy Streets/Cycleways/Quietways plans? Or TfL could stop trying to fix what wasn't broken and revert to the previous routing that was working perfectly fine and wasn't leaving people up to 630m from a bus service. But that would actually mean listening to people and admitting they got it wrong, which they don't do. Not sure how making it one-way would stop the bus getting stuck behind bin lorries and ambulances. By the way, I used the online buses customer service form like you suggested to report various issues: I got a reply in broken English that was completely unrelated to what I'd asked/the points I'd made, so I won't be doing be doing that again.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 29, 2020 18:14:50 GMT
The 384 also uses Carnavon Road and used to use Stafford Road all which are similar in length (Salisbury Road is only ever so slightly longer) and are identical in terms of how narrow they are. What is particularly special about Salisbury Road compared to the other two roads - my guess would be it's used a lot more than the other two roads I mentioned? The 384 has never used Carnarvon Road. It now goes via Strafford Road westbound and Salisbury Road eastbound. The previous route was via Alston and Strafford roads in both directions, which was tried and tested for more that 30 years (route 385 before that). This routing has passing places and two car parks at either end of Strafford Road for smaller vehicles to divert into when they see an oncoming bus. Strafford Road is straight and shorter, so vehicles can see the bus before they turn into the road, whereas Salisbury is long with a bend in it, so vehicles can't see each other until they are nearly in the middle of the road. Plus the old routing meant that people in Calvert, Puller, Alston, Wrotham and Falkland roads were within 450m of a southbound/eastbound bus, which is no longer the case. It was also closer and less of a hazardous walk for passengers for The Spires and Chipping Barnet Library. There was nothing wrong with the old routing, but I can see them responding by trying to divert the bus via Wood Street instead, thus cutting off the residents, schools and children's hospice in Wentworth / Byng roads from a bus for more than 800m. Similar safety incidents passing other vehicles are also occurring at the junction of Victoria Road and Park Road. TfL were warned again and again that this would happen, but making the route more 'direct' (not for people who have lost the service altogether) was what they cared about. My 383 extension to Hadley Highstone now reserves Puller Road, Alston Road, Falkland Road & Wrotham towards Hadley Highstone by turning into Stafford Road before then turning into Alston Road which a hail & ride stop at the top of it to serve locale who have only got the infrequent 614, before then turning onto St Albans Road and then the A1000 before going up Hadley Green Road, Dury Road then terminating at Hadley Highstone with stands created on the southbound side of the road with the 383 using the triangle to turn around. Same southbound. Would like to hear your views.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 19:07:47 GMT
A one-way system would work perfectly here - perhaps LBB can factor this in as part of their Streetspace/LTN/Healthy Streets/Cycleways/Quietways plans? Or TfL could stop trying to fix what wasn't broken and revert to the previous routing that was working perfectly fine and wasn't leaving people up to 630m from a bus service. But that would actually mean listening to people and admitting they got it wrong, which they don't do. Not sure how making it one-way would stop the bus getting stuck behind bin lorries and ambulances. By the way, I used the online buses customer service form like you suggested to report various issues: I got a reply in broken English that was completely unrelated to what I'd asked/the points I'd made, so I won't be doing be doing that again. If they were to make any changes, including reverting it back to it's old alignment, it would take a while as they need to look at various data and collate feedback from drivers about concerns etc. It's a process that can take fairly long - hence why trialing a one way system would be more effective in the short term at least. Having said that, Barnet haven't got any plans for that area yet/applied for funding for any schemes up in High/Chipping Barnet so I wouldn't be too hopeful. If the road was an eastbound only street, it would have to wait behind bin lorries as many other buses on single lane roads do across London; unfortunately, that's just the nature of some routes. Same with ambulances, often when emergency vehicles block the road a temporary diversion is implemented. I can't see it being any different here. With regards to the online form - that's strange... normally the team is quite good at responding and passing on the relevant feedback. I can only apologise for the reply you received.
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Post by uakari on Sept 29, 2020 19:36:41 GMT
The 384 has never used Carnarvon Road. It now goes via Strafford Road westbound and Salisbury Road eastbound. The previous route was via Alston and Strafford roads in both directions, which was tried and tested for more that 30 years (route 385 before that). This routing has passing places and two car parks at either end of Strafford Road for smaller vehicles to divert into when they see an oncoming bus. Strafford Road is straight and shorter, so vehicles can see the bus before they turn into the road, whereas Salisbury is long with a bend in it, so vehicles can't see each other until they are nearly in the middle of the road. Plus the old routing meant that people in Calvert, Puller, Alston, Wrotham and Falkland roads were within 450m of a southbound/eastbound bus, which is no longer the case. It was also closer and less of a hazardous walk for passengers for The Spires and Chipping Barnet Library. There was nothing wrong with the old routing, but I can see them responding by trying to divert the bus via Wood Street instead, thus cutting off the residents, schools and children's hospice in Wentworth / Byng roads from a bus for more than 800m. Similar safety incidents passing other vehicles are also occurring at the junction of Victoria Road and Park Road. TfL were warned again and again that this would happen, but making the route more 'direct' (not for people who have lost the service altogether) was what they cared about. My 383 extension to Hadley Highstone now reserves Puller Road, Alston Road, Falkland Road & Wrotham towards Hadley Highstone by turning into Stafford Road before then turning into Alston Road which a hail & ride stop at the top of it to serve locale who have only got the infrequent 614, before then turning onto St Albans Road and then the A1000 before going up Hadley Green Road, Dury Road then terminating at Hadley Highstone with stands created on the southbound side of the road with the 383 using the triangle to turn around. Same southbound. Would like to hear your views. The more I think about it, the more I like this idea - I think you should suggest it to TfL. It would be good to bring Falkland, Wrotham etc closer to a bus, but I'm not sure TfL would go for it, as one of their arguments for changing the 384 eastbound was that buses would no longer have to pass each other on Alston and Strafford (even though that was rarely an issue or caused problems in reality). You'd have the 383 in both directions and the 384 westbound along Strafford - I don't think it would be a problem but TfL might. You've also cleverly eliminated the double run past the stop on the High Street (B: St Albans Road), which is otherwise an issue with any bus that would continue further north along the High Street but also loop round the back of The Spires. Alston Road width restriction would have to be adapted to have a bus gate like in Netherlands Road. Giving a more frequent service to the north of High Street and also within walking distance of Monken Hadley is also a good idea. I think terminating on the northbound side of Hadley Highstone might be better, because you there is better visibility, you would only have to remove a couple of parking spaces and the pavement is wider - could be easily adapted to a bus stand. Then the first stop would be the existing southbound stop for the 84. The 383 could also potentially 'come to the rescue' for the Lyonsdown area, but that would make it quite 'circuitous', to use TfL's parlance and leave Meadway etc with only the 184.
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Post by Busboy105 on Sept 29, 2020 20:00:52 GMT
The fact that there is a Twitter page for this is funny to me.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 30, 2020 15:32:13 GMT
Hi all This is for anyone interested particularly uakari as he is local but everyone else is of course welcome to answer I received a response from Geoff himself within a very small time frame entailing all the pros n cons of my proposals for the 383 He mainly outlines costs and massive competition with the 84 currently commercially run. If you would like to hear what I got please feel free to ask in Messages LondonNorthern
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