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Post by COBO on Oct 26, 2020 22:59:23 GMT
Does the stand at Barnet Spires has space for another route?
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Post by galwhv69 on Oct 27, 2020 9:27:48 GMT
Does the stand at Barnet Spires has space for another route? Judging by Google Maps, I would say no
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Post by uakari on Apr 17, 2021 13:19:45 GMT
FOI request shows up to 40% reduction in passenger numbers on the 384 east of Barnet Everyman Cinema, scaled up for Covid, since changes to route. TfL trying to justify this by saying that customers have transferred to 'alternative routes', despite their earlier hope for an increase in 'through passengers' between High Barnet and Cockfosters.
Clearly the 384 has become a route of two halves now - how long before they try to remove the eastern section altogether?
Note some errors with some values being set to zero for July data, and column 9 heading should read 2019, not 2020. Comparing Nov 2019 and Nov 2020. July data is not complete. I can explain further if anything not clear.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 17, 2021 13:55:41 GMT
FOI request shows up to 40% reduction in passenger numbers on the 384 east of Barnet Everyman Cinema, scaled up for Covid, since changes to route. TfL trying to justify this by saying that customers have transferred to 'alternative routes', despite their earlier hope for an increase in 'through passengers' between High Barnet and Cockfosters. Clearly the 384 has become a route of two halves now - how long before they try to remove the eastern section altogether? Note some errors with some values being set to zero for July data, and column 9 heading should read 2019, not 2020. Comparing Nov 2019 and Nov 2020. July data is not complete. I can explain further if anything not clear. The irony with all this is they could of left the 384 alone and actually explored the orbital express idea with a new express route from Edgware going eastwards through Barnet
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 15:10:10 GMT
FOI request shows up to 40% reduction in passenger numbers on the 384 east of Barnet Everyman Cinema, scaled up for Covid, since changes to route. TfL trying to justify this by saying that customers have transferred to 'alternative routes', despite their earlier hope for an increase in 'through passengers' between High Barnet and Cockfosters. Clearly the 384 has become a route of two halves now - how long before they try to remove the eastern section altogether? Note some errors with some values being set to zero for July data, and column 9 heading should read 2019, not 2020. Comparing Nov 2019 and Nov 2020. July data is not complete. I can explain further if anything not clear. The irony with all this is they could of left the 384 alone and actually explored the orbital express idea with a new express route from Edgware going eastwards through Barnet I have heard/ I have also agreed and suggested of a potential X307 service from Chingford to Edgware through Barnet. Probably may come up on Enfield Bus Study. I have also have a study of my own planned up for Enfield.
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Post by uakari on Apr 17, 2021 15:41:21 GMT
I agree but I can't see them pedaling back on the extension to Edgware as that part is actually doing OK in terms of numbers - it's just the eastern section that has crashed. Seems there was a major review of routes in High and New Barnet in 2017. I know this was pushed for by local organisations in the hope that the area would get some improvements to services, cross-boundary routes and interchanges with the tube and other buses, but instead resulted in the reduction of the 384 from 4bph to 3bph in 2017, then the complete withdrawal of it from many roads, plus all these other frequency reductions they considered. I may have well suggested a review to TfL myself - I really hope that one person didn't persuade them to conduct a whole review, as it's definitely a case of 'be careful what you wish for'?! They considered frequency reductions on 263, 307 and 184 - so much for better services in outer London!: Attachment Deleted
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Post by ian on Apr 22, 2021 6:33:50 GMT
It's pretty impressive that by November, after the new amended routeing was introduced in August, that they are running at an overall 50% increase in patronage (taking into account current demand suppression). That's a very significant increase and certainly shows the value of the direct Edgware - Barnet link and TfL's planning.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 22, 2021 9:56:16 GMT
Be interesting to see if there has been an adjusted drop on the 107 with passengers who would have taken the 107 from Barnet to Edgware now taking the more direct 384.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 22, 2021 11:32:04 GMT
It's pretty impressive that by November, after the new amended routeing was introduced in August, that they are running at an overall 50% increase in patronage (taking into account current demand suppression). That's a very significant increase and certainly shows the value of the direct Edgware - Barnet link and TfL's planning. Of course no one was against the Barnet to Edgware link in the first place but they could of appeased all parties quite easily by setting up an orbital express route taking in Barnet to Edgware and leaving the 384 as it was - the mayor has banged on before about cutting services to fund Outer London routes and there was a perfect opportunity to do so but instead have pushed locals on that section to other means at a time when revenue is greatly needed so let’s not celebrate TfL’s planning as if it’s a win win for all
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 22, 2021 11:37:29 GMT
It's pretty impressive that by November, after the new amended routeing was introduced in August, that they are running at an overall 50% increase in patronage (taking into account current demand suppression). That's a very significant increase and certainly shows the value of the direct Edgware - Barnet link and TfL's planning. Of course no one was against the Barnet to Edgware link in the first place but they could of appeased all parties quite easily by setting up an orbital express route taking in Barnet to Edgware and leaving the 384 as it was - the mayor has banged on before about cutting services to fund Outer London routes and there was a perfect opportunity to do so but instead have pushed locals on that section to other means at a time when revenue is greatly needed so let’s not celebrate TfL’s planning as if it’s a win win for all Revenue is greatly needed, but controlling costs is as equally needed. It might have been the only financially viable option at the time and if it has increased revenue, it has benefitted more than it disadvantaged.
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Post by kmkcheng on Apr 22, 2021 11:47:13 GMT
Be interesting to see if there has been an adjusted drop on the 107 with passengers who would have taken the 107 from Barnet to Edgware now taking the more direct 384. Not just the 107 but 292 as well. There were plenty of passengers that changed between the two at Stirling Corner to get a faster journey between Barnet and Edgware
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 22, 2021 12:02:17 GMT
It's pretty impressive that by November, after the new amended routeing was introduced in August, that they are running at an overall 50% increase in patronage (taking into account current demand suppression). That's a very significant increase and certainly shows the value of the direct Edgware - Barnet link and TfL's planning. Of course no one was against the Barnet to Edgware link in the first place but they could of appeased all parties quite easily by setting up an orbital express route taking in Barnet to Edgware and leaving the 384 as it was - the mayor has banged on before about cutting services to fund Outer London routes and there was a perfect opportunity to do so but instead have pushed locals on that section to other means at a time when revenue is greatly needed so let’s not celebrate TfL’s planning as if it’s a win win for all Or even at the very least extended the 384 but kept in the backstreet sections between Barnet and Cockfosters.
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Post by redexpress on Apr 22, 2021 13:41:12 GMT
Of course no one was against the Barnet to Edgware link in the first place but they could of appeased all parties quite easily by setting up an orbital express route taking in Barnet to Edgware and leaving the 384 as it was - the mayor has banged on before about cutting services to fund Outer London routes and there was a perfect opportunity to do so but instead have pushed locals on that section to other means at a time when revenue is greatly needed so let’s not celebrate TfL’s planning as if it’s a win win for all Revenue is greatly needed, but controlling costs is as equally needed. It might have been the only financially viable option at the time and if it has increased revenue, it has benefitted more than it disadvantaged. That rather depends where the extra patronage has come from. If it's by abstraction from the competition (Uno's commercial route) or from people who wouldn't otherwise have travelled by bus, all well and good. But if it's by abstraction from other TfL routes, they haven't actually gained anything.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 22, 2021 14:08:28 GMT
Of course no one was against the Barnet to Edgware link in the first place but they could of appeased all parties quite easily by setting up an orbital express route taking in Barnet to Edgware and leaving the 384 as it was - the mayor has banged on before about cutting services to fund Outer London routes and there was a perfect opportunity to do so but instead have pushed locals on that section to other means at a time when revenue is greatly needed so let’s not celebrate TfL’s planning as if it’s a win win for all Revenue is greatly needed, but controlling costs is as equally needed. It might have been the only financially viable option at the time and if it has increased revenue, it has benefitted more than it disadvantaged. This only depends on where this has come from like redexpress mentioned - if it's simply come from 107 passengers switching to this, then there is no gain and even then, there was no need to disadvantage people when there was the ability to benefit others and no disadvantage people.
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Post by VMH2537 on Apr 22, 2021 15:15:32 GMT
This is my theory on the 384 changes.
The old 384 was actually doing well in usage, but the fact it did not gain revenue from the amount of freedom passers used on it meaning it had to be subsidised to keep the route running for the users of the route.
My suspicion is that TFL wanted to cut down costs of subsidising and turn to the idea of making it self reliant by making it direct and extending it to Edgware so the route is self reliant where the revenues will cover the costs of the route. The eastern section of the route pretty much crashed but TFL could argue that and users from the roads lost are using alternative routes.
I think TFL did have a look at the X307 idea, but I think they chose the 384 option because it was alot cheaper and they would've withdrawn the 384 entirely resulting in areas inaccessible to the bus network. Even if TFL chose the X307 option they must likely would've withdraw the 384 regardless.
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