|
Post by vjaska on Jul 16, 2021 22:16:58 GMT
Does anyone have any thoughts on this proposal I came up with to restore a service to the Barnet roads that no longer have one, and also to give Hadley Wood a more frequent service and better connections? Potential also to create a Cockfosters to Enfield Town/Chase Farm link, although that might create some double-running issues along Cockfosters Road: View AttachmentThe curcuitisation of routes are the reason why the 384 and eventually other routes will get restructured more directly. People want trips that can get you from A to B in the in the most direct way possible, curcuitisation will just hold journeys an possibly lose usage on the route, hence one of the main reasons why the 384 had to get restructured to create a more efficient route from its new direct routeings. Is it really why the 384 got restructured because there are plenty of examples of round the houses routes that have been runaway success and hence why they became apart of the network in the first place. The P5 takes the most roundabout routing you can have from Nine Elms to Elephant yet does perfectly well due to the many little bits it's serves to get people from shops, schools, residential areas, hospitals, etc. You would lose a number of valuable links overnight if you started unraveling these types of routes. Let's be clear, the 384 cut was a way of TfL making savings by choosing the cheapest option available to create an extension to Barnet at the expense of locals living on small residential roads mainly east of Barnet hence why the 400m rule was altered to 450m just so they could make the required savings. If your ok with local transport body changing the goalposts to suit their own agenda rather than passengers needs, then that's up to you but I certainly am not.
|
|
|
Post by uakari on Jul 16, 2021 22:28:03 GMT
The curcuitisation of routes are the reason why the 384 and eventually other routes will get restructured more directly. People want trips that can get you from A to B in the in the most direct way possible, curcuitisation will just hold journeys an possibly lose usage on the route, hence one of the main reasons why the 384 had to get restructured to create a more efficient route from its new direct routeings. Is it really why the 384 got restructured because there are plenty of examples of round the houses routes that have been runaway success and hence why they became apart of the network in the first place. The P5 takes the most roundabout routing you can have from Nine Elms to Elephant yet does perfectly well due to the many little bits it's serves to get people from shops, schools, residential areas, hospitals, etc. You would lose a number of valuable links overnight if you started unraveling these types of routes. Let's be clear, the 384 cut was a way of TfL making savings by choosing the cheapest option available to create an extension to Barnet at the expense of locals living on small residential roads mainly east of Barnet hence why the 400m rule was altered to 450m just so they could make the required savings. If your ok with local transport body changing the goalposts to suit their own agenda rather than passengers needs, then that's up to you but I certainly am not. Also it turned out it was actually 630+ metres to the nearest stop for some people. And if passengers only want 'direct' routes then why has the 384 lost up to 40% of passengers east of Barnet Everyman Cinema since the changes, rather than gained them? A good bus network should provide local links from residential areas to town centres AS WELL AS trunk routes on main roads. The two are not actually in opposition to each other. If people want a more direct link from High Barnet to Cockfosters that strangely misses out the town centre of New Barnet inbetween, then my proposal allows for that, but the figures say that the local community links are more valued for this particular area.
|
|
|
Post by VMH2537 on Jul 17, 2021 0:22:09 GMT
Is it really why the 384 got restructured because there are plenty of examples of round the houses routes that have been runaway success and hence why they became apart of the network in the first place. The P5 takes the most roundabout routing you can have from Nine Elms to Elephant yet does perfectly well due to the many little bits it's serves to get people from shops, schools, residential areas, hospitals, etc. You would lose a number of valuable links overnight if you started unraveling these types of routes. Let's be clear, the 384 cut was a way of TfL making savings by choosing the cheapest option available to create an extension to Barnet at the expense of locals living on small residential roads mainly east of Barnet hence why the 400m rule was altered to 450m just so they could make the required savings. If your ok with local transport body changing the goalposts to suit their own agenda rather than passengers needs, then that's up to you but I certainly am not. Also it turned out it was actually 630+ metres to the nearest stop for some people. And if passengers only want 'direct' routes then why has the 384 lost up to 40% of passengers east of Barnet Everyman Cinema since the changes, rather than gained them? A good bus network should provide local links from residential areas to town centres AS WELL AS trunk routes on main roads. The two are not actually in opposition to each other. If people want a more direct link from High Barnet to Cockfosters that strangely misses out the town centre of New Barnet inbetween, then my proposal allows for that, but the figures say that the local community links are more valued for this particular area. The loss is potentially only short term as it most commonly happenes after a major route restructure where one part of the route is lost then eventually picks up it's expected new numbers from its new routings, in most cases it's the case Some developments are planned at Cockfosters Station which could bring some new trips to and from the area something that can be attracted from its direct links towards Barnet and Edgware
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Sept 20, 2021 8:05:51 GMT
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 20, 2021 8:45:22 GMT
So the 383 and 384 go out to tender on their current routings now?
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 20, 2021 8:59:36 GMT
Other than potentially having northbound buses stop closer to New Barnet Station, this looks to be business as usual for TfL here. They have dismissed any prospect of changes to routes 383 and 384. I would be surprised if they took up the option of smaller buses, unless some became displaced from elsewhere due to a contract renewal. It wouldn’t make sense to spend money on new shorter buses if there was a risk that a PVR increase might be needed to increase capacity.
|
|
|
Post by VMH2537 on Sept 20, 2021 15:43:24 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised to see the 384 utilised 8.9m busses on the next contract for short savings to be made whenever practical.
My speculation on the idea suggestion of the 384 curtailing to New Barnet whilst diverting the 383 to Cockfosters wasn't viable over the JoSS School link broken. Though on paper a 40% loss east of New Barnet.
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 20, 2021 15:50:27 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised to see the 384 utilised 8.9m busses on the next contract for short savings to be made whenever practical. My speculation on the idea suggestion of the 384 curtailing to New Barnet whilst diverting the 383 to Cockfosters wasn't viable over the JoSS School link broken. Though on paper a 40% loss east of New Barnet. What savings would 8.9m buses create?
|
|
|
Post by YX10FFN on Sept 20, 2021 20:20:59 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised to see the 384 utilised 8.9m busses on the next contract for short savings to be made whenever practical. My speculation on the idea suggestion of the 384 curtailing to New Barnet whilst diverting the 383 to Cockfosters wasn't viable over the JoSS School link broken. Though on paper a 40% loss east of New Barnet. What savings would 8.9m buses create? If anything it's more costs and more inconvenience. The 234 has been awarded a new contract with its existing vehicles meaning are TFL are somewhat content with the DEM batch. Just because some bloke had to reverse doesn't mean they have to make life difficult for both TFL and Metroline.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 20, 2021 20:34:19 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised to see the 384 utilised 8.9m busses on the next contract for short savings to be made whenever practical. My speculation on the idea suggestion of the 384 curtailing to New Barnet whilst diverting the 383 to Cockfosters wasn't viable over the JoSS School link broken. Though on paper a 40% loss east of New Barnet. What savings would 8.9m buses create? Very minimal as TfL themselves admit in the same report so suspect it will unlikely happen and nor should it. I find intriguing how the report offers some detail over certain issues surrounding the 384 but only briefly mentions the campaign by 'Save the 384' and offers no further detail beyond that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2021 23:39:21 GMT
The best thing is to restructure the 389 and 399. I've been saying this for time. The 383 idea for me is stupid and nothing else needs to be done with the 384 as it's already had a lot of restructuring.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 1, 2021 1:57:50 GMT
The best thing is to restructure the 389 and 399. I've been saying this for time. The 383 idea for me is stupid and nothing else needs to be done with the 384 as it's already had a lot of restructuring. The issue with the 384 is the restructuring it has had hasn't gone down well with locals so to say nothing needs to be done with the 384 is an odd viewpoint to come from.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Nov 1, 2021 14:03:41 GMT
The best thing is to restructure the 389 and 399. I've been saying this for time. The 383 idea for me is stupid and nothing else needs to be done with the 384 as it's already had a lot of restructuring. The issue with the 384 is the restructuring it has had hasn't gone down well with locals so to say nothing needs to be done with the 384 is an odd viewpoint to come from. The 54 cutback didn't go down well with the locals yet 21 years on its never been revisited. The 384 achieved what tfl wanted and therefore unwell a cost effective solution can be found then the 384 won't be revisted again now I doubt.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 1, 2021 15:20:50 GMT
The issue with the 384 is the restructuring it has had hasn't gone down well with locals so to say nothing needs to be done with the 384 is an odd viewpoint to come from. The 54 cutback didn't go down well with the locals yet 21 years on its never been revisited. The 384 achieved what tfl wanted and therefore unwell a cost effective solution can be found then the 384 won't be revisted again now I doubt. There is difference between what I said and what your are saying - once again, I’m very it’s what TfL wanted. What I was merely saying is saying that the 384 doesn’t need to change when more local people have said it does is an odd viewpoint - a viewpoint and what’s happened are two different things
|
|
|
Post by uakari on Feb 7, 2022 21:27:45 GMT
What savings would 8.9m buses create? Very minimal as TfL themselves admit in the same report so suspect it will unlikely happen and nor should it. I find intriguing how the report offers some detail over certain issues surrounding the 384 but only briefly mentions the campaign by 'Save the 384' and offers no further detail beyond that. Yes, it was all very depressing as most of the issues discussed were about the suitability of Salisbury Road, when TfL specifically promised that other feedback would be taken into account, so people went to a lot of trouble to provide feedback and they didn't even mention any of the themes from it. Not sure what the point of a review is if it doesn't discuss the effects that people have been experiencing since the changes, which included: - increased walking time and difficulty for elderly and mobility-impaired people, especially longer walks uphill up to 630m. Some people no longer able to access public transport at all and either completely isolated at home or having to rely on taxis that they can ill afford - increased difficulty for carers and care workers in accessing residents' homes - increased difficulty accessing shopping facilities especially ALDI supermarket in Brookhill Road - safety and medical issues with elderly people and schoolchildren having to walk increased distances especially in the dark and cold - vulnerability of lone women, elderly and disabled people having to walk increased distances between where the bus stops and their home, especially in more remote residential areas and in the dark as the nights draw in. I can only hope that TfL see the need to provide a service between Barnet and Potters Bar in the absence of the 84, and that this could also involve serving at least some of the removed roads from the 384 in a way that makes doing so more 'value for money'. I doubt it though. I'm thinking variations of the 377 or 383. 399 circular idea might become more viable but wouldn't reach Potters Bar.
|
|