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Post by vjaska on Sept 22, 2018 20:53:29 GMT
In a word, no. Absolutely no. Here in Bexley, we have little interest in travel to Lakeside when Bluewater is so much easier to get to. I’m rather more positive about the X80’s credentials than snoggle: the X80 seems to be doing well on my observations but a TfL service would kill it stone dead. My proposal was not necessarily about linking Bexleyheath or indeed Dartford with Lakeside, but rather linking these two parts of London, Romford and Dartford/Bexleyheath. From there other continued journeys are open. It would save travelling into central London and out again. I live in Ilford but regularly travel to Bexleyheath to my barbers,( there's a great barbershop in Pickford Lane), it's so time consuming. What's really needed is a new bridge, Rainham to Erith would be ideal, though I've read somewhere that a Thamesmead to Barking bridge was mooted. I don't know the X80 , but if it's a stopping service then it shouldn't suffer from a new TFL non stopping route. The Dartford Crossing would render any such route as useless because of the horrendous delays - the X80 regularly suffers from this and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ensignbus eventually withdraw from running it. I agree that a new bridge is needed but I think it would be years before we’ll see one and that’s if it’s ever approved. |
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Post by sid on Sept 22, 2018 20:55:47 GMT
In a word, no. Absolutely no. Here in Bexley, we have little interest in travel to Lakeside when Bluewater is so much easier to get to. I’m rather more positive about the X80’s credentials than snoggle: the X80 seems to be doing well on my observations but a TfL service would kill it stone dead. My proposal was not necessarily about linking Bexleyheath or indeed Dartford with Lakeside, but rather linking these two parts of London, Romford and Dartford/Bexleyheath. From there other continued journeys are open. It would save travelling into central London and out again. I live in Ilford but regularly travel to Bexleyheath to my barbers,( there's a great barbershop in Pickford Lane), it's so time consuming. What's really needed is a new bridge, Rainham to Erith would be ideal, though I've read somewhere that a Thamesmead to Barking bridge was mooted. I don't know the X80 , but if it's a stopping service then it shouldn't suffer from a new TFL non stopping route. Must be a good barbers to travel that far! I know somebody who lives in Bexleyheath and works in Thurrock, you have to do the journey by car, there is no other viable option. The X80 runs from Lakeside to Bluewater and went to Gravesend at one time. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 22, 2018 21:01:17 GMT
1. Has a DD route ever been converted to SD, and remained SD ever since. The 126 would fit the bill, albeit the odd double deck has escaped a couple of times. Also the 286 (you could add the 124 although it has had restrictions added since it was a DD). Sorry, but not quite correct about the 126. It was converted to one man single deck operation in 1968, one of the first routes to do so, but went over to double deck Fleetlines in 1975. Oddly, by the time it got extended from Eltham to Woolwich over the 161 route, it was back to single deck, precisely when loadings could have benefited from the extra capacity! A route I lived on, or near, in Eltham, Bromley and then Beckenham for a quarter of a century! |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 22, 2018 23:29:20 GMT
The 126 would fit the bill, albeit the odd double deck has escaped a couple of times. Also the 286 (you could add the 124 although it has had restrictions added since it was a DD). Sorry, but not quite correct about the 126. It was converted to one man single deck operation in 1968, one of the first routes to do so, but went over to double deck Fleetlines in 1975. Oddly, by the time it got extended from Eltham to Woolwich over the 161 route, it was back to single deck, precisely when loadings could have benefited from the extra capacity! A route I lived on, or near, in Eltham, Bromley and then Beckenham for a quarter of a century! According to the buses at work website, it actually converted to T operation when it was extended to Woolwich in 1985 but it only lasted two years before being coverted to LS operation in 1987 but even then it wasn't it's last foray with a decker allocation as in 1989, it was fully T operated again but only on Sundays (with a part LS/T allocation at other times) until 1990 where it converted to DT/MRL operation  www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/126.html |
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Post by DE20106 on Sept 23, 2018 6:22:20 GMT
My proposal was not necessarily about linking Bexleyheath or indeed Dartford with Lakeside, but rather linking these two parts of London, Romford and Dartford/Bexleyheath. From there other continued journeys are open. It would save travelling into central London and out again. I live in Ilford but regularly travel to Bexleyheath to my barbers,( there's a great barbershop in Pickford Lane), it's so time consuming. What's really needed is a new bridge, Rainham to Erith would be ideal, though I've read somewhere that a Thamesmead to Barking bridge was mooted. I don't know the X80 , but if it's a stopping service then it shouldn't suffer from a new TFL non stopping route. Must be a good barbers to travel that far! I know somebody who lives in Bexleyheath and works in Thurrock, you have to do the journey by car, there is no other viable option. The X80 runs from Lakeside to Bluewater and went to Gravesend at one time. Isn’t the only option from Bexleyheath (town centre where the shopping centre is) to Bluewater the 492? Obviously not very attractive because of its dismal frequency, I don’t know how close the 96 runs to Bexleyheath but I don’t remember it passing through the town centre when I visited it this year. |
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Post by sid on Sept 23, 2018 6:47:00 GMT
Must be a good barbers to travel that far! I know somebody who lives in Bexleyheath and works in Thurrock, you have to do the journey by car, there is no other viable option. The X80 runs from Lakeside to Bluewater and went to Gravesend at one time. Isn’t the only option from Bexleyheath (town centre where the shopping centre is) to Bluewater the 492? Obviously not very attractive because of its dismal frequency, I don’t know how close the 96 runs to Bexleyheath but I don’t remember it passing through the town centre when I visited it this year. The 96 goes through Bexleyheath town centre, going to Bluewater and then getting the X80 would be the only way to Lakeside which would be a bit long winded to say the least. |
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Post by paulo on Sept 23, 2018 7:28:30 GMT
1. Has a DD route ever been converted to SD, and remained SD ever since. The 126 would fit the bill, albeit the odd double deck has escaped a couple of times. Also the 286 (you could add the 124 although it has had restrictions added since it was a DD). The 110 was double deck many years back at Fulwell and whilst occasionally sees DD workings, it has remained single deck since. The 411 also |
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Post by snowman on Sept 23, 2018 8:09:52 GMT
The 72 was double deck for decades, then converted to single deck, and has remained single due to weak Hammersmith Bridge
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Post by John tuthill on Sept 23, 2018 9:42:13 GMT
The 72 was double deck for decades, then converted to single deck, and has remained single due to weak Hammersmith Bridge And for our younger readers two images from my youth, (From Ian Armstrongs bus route page)The RT is standing at Hampton Court Station. Happy days Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by DE20106 on Sept 23, 2018 10:37:59 GMT
The 72 was double deck for decades, then converted to single deck, and has remained single due to weak Hammersmith Bridge On that topic 33 was too but again SD’ed because of that green wreckage. |
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 23, 2018 12:08:11 GMT
The 72 was double deck for decades, then converted to single deck, and has remained single due to weak Hammersmith Bridge And for our younger readers two images from my youth, (From Ian Armstrongs bus route page)The RT is standing at Hampton Court Station. Happy days I believe that when the 72 ran from East Acton to Hampton Court Station, it was the longest Central Area (red) bus route at the time. The route was good for fast thrashes along the A3, in RTs and later RMs. I seem to remember that the conductors would have very little to do along that stretch and could usually be found sprawled on the offside rear seat in the lower saloon (offside so they could reach the bell without needing to stand up!). Even today's 265 allows for some pretty quick journeys to and from outer South-West London. Shame it only gets as far as Tolworth now. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 23, 2018 13:08:04 GMT
The 72 was double deck for decades, then converted to single deck, and has remained single due to weak Hammersmith Bridge And for our younger readers two images from my youth, (From Ian Armstrongs bus route page)The RT is standing at Hampton Court Station. Happy days View AttachmentView AttachmentI did manage to see the 33 & 72 when M operated right before they were restricted to single deckers. |
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Post by John tuthill on Sept 23, 2018 15:08:31 GMT
And for our younger readers two images from my youth, (From Ian Armstrongs bus route page)The RT is standing at Hampton Court Station. Happy days View AttachmentView AttachmentI did manage to see the 33 & 72 when M operated right before they were restricted to single deckers. Look again(Ians bus pages) Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 24, 2018 20:47:34 GMT
I was hoping someone might remember better than I can that there WAS a bus route from Romford through the (then new) Dartford Tunnel soon after it opened in 1963. I believe it went to Orpington, after Dartford, and I'll try to rack my brain to remember what I can of its existence and rationale.
Back in the early 1960s London Transport was the monopoly operator in the Orpington Rural District Council area, divided between Central Buses and Country Buses. Basically, anything north and west of Orpington was Central Bus territory, and anything east was Country Buses, but south was part Central, part Country. Importantly, in this regard, Downe was red bus (the 146) but was only served from Bromley: Biggin Hill was green bus (the 410, plus Green Line 705), but again only from Bromley. There were no buses to those places from Orpington, and LT refused to consider providing them, citing the narrowness of Jail Lane (between Downe and Biggin Hill) amongst other reasons. In these pre-GLC days, the whole area was in Kent (even Bromley itself) although this was to change from April 1965. A group of people, some of whom were associated with the Liberal Party, which had long been the main opposition to the Conservatives in the area, but very much a minority, started to agitate both about rail services from Orpington Station and the lack of bus connections to it. I seem to remember their going under the name of Orpington and District Public Transport Users' Association or somesuch, and their main spokesman being called Dr something or other. Anyway, they managed to persuade LT that they had a case to provide a bus service, given LT's refusal, and perhaps they used the imminent opening of the Dartford Tunnel to propose an ambitious through Tunnel service to connect major towns both north and south of the tunnel itself. The company providing the small buses (I hesitate to use the term minibuses) MAY have been called North Downs Rural Transport. You'll appreciate that pretty well none of this has ever got on to the internet, so far as I can see. What I will add is that Orpington experienced a famous by-election in 1964 in which Eric Lubbock achieved a momentous victory for the Liberals, which became a template for further victories up to more recent times.
How long the Romford to Orpington (or, possibly, Biggin Hill) route lasted I wouldn't like to say, though I'd guess two years at most. It was plagued by delays from the start, from the little I remember. By the way, although I can't provide the precise genealogy, I'm fairly certain that Metrobus is a direct descendant from this arrangement, although there may be some 'out of wedlock' along the way!
That's as honest an account as I can give from memory: although I didn't live too far away, it was far enough not to feature in our local newspaper, and my main interest, as a schoolboy, was in red buses, as it still is!
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Post by snoggle on Sept 24, 2018 22:58:53 GMT
I was hoping someone might remember better than I can that there WAS a bus route from Romford through the (then new) Dartford Tunnel soon after it opened in 1963. I believe it went to Orpington, after Dartford, and I'll try to rack my brain to remember what I can of its existence and rationale. Back in the early 1960s London Transport was the monopoly operator in the Orpington Rural District Council area, divided between Central Buses and Country Buses. Basically, anything north and west of Orpington was Central Bus territory, and anything east was Country Buses, but south was part Central, part Country. Importantly, in this regard, Downe was red bus (the 146) but was only served from Bromley: Biggin Hill was green bus (the 410, plus Green Line 705), but again only from Bromley. There were no buses to those places from Orpington, and LT refused to consider providing them, citing the narrowness of Jail Lane (between Downe and Biggin Hill) amongst other reasons. In these pre-GLC days, the whole area was in Kent (even Bromley itself) although this was to change from April 1965. A group of people, some of whom were associated with the Liberal Party, which had long been the main opposition to the Conservatives in the area, but very much a minority, started to agitate both about rail services from Orpington Station and the lack of bus connections to it. I seem to remember their going under the name of Orpington and District Public Transport Users' Association or somesuch, and their main spokesman being called Dr something or other. Anyway, they managed to persuade LT that they had a case to provide a bus service, given LT's refusal, and perhaps they used the imminent opening of the Dartford Tunnel to propose an ambitious through Tunnel service to connect major towns both north and south of the tunnel itself. The company providing the small buses (I hesitate to use the term minibuses) MAY have been called North Downs Rural Transport. You'll appreciate that pretty well none of this has ever got on to the internet, so far as I can see. What I will add is that Orpington experienced a famous by-election in 1964 in which Eric Lubbock achieved a momentous victory for the Liberals, which became a template for further victories up to more recent times. How long the Romford to Orpington (or, possibly, Biggin Hill) route lasted I wouldn't like to say, though I'd guess two years at most. It was plagued by delays from the start, from the little I remember. By the way, although I can't provide the precise genealogy, I'm fairly certain that Metrobus is a direct descendant from this arrangement, although there may be some 'out of wedlock' along the way! That's as honest an account as I can give from memory: although I didn't live too far away, it was far enough not to feature in our local newspaper, and my main interest, as a schoolboy, was in red buses, as it still is! A number of years ago Capital Transport published a very useful book that had all the old "independent" non LT bus services in it. Annoyingly I can't find my copy nor can I recall the title or find it on the internet. A lot of your memories align with what I recall. That small operation in and around Orpington grew to become Metrobus via various iterations along the way. |
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