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Post by snowman on Oct 12, 2018 13:02:48 GMT
A new consultation affecting 16 bus routes in Brixton Link Map Our proposals include: •Rationalising bus stopping arrangements for southbound services in Brixton Town centre. We will reduce the number of bus stops from three to two which will better match destinations and improve interchange between bus services. One bus stop will serve routes to Herne Hill and Tulse Hill etc and the other will serve routes to Brixton Hill and beyond. •Creating a double bus lane on Brixton Road (southbound only). This will reduce the number of general traffic lanes to one. •Starting the southbound bus lane on the A23, south of the junction Acre Lane, Coldharbour Lane and Effra Road earlier •Relocating and slightly increasing the length of a loading bay in the southbound bus lane •Providing signage and line markings which will make it clear which lanes vehicles should use at the Acre Lane/Coldharbour Lane and Effra Road junction. This will improve safety.
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Post by 15002 on Oct 12, 2018 13:06:21 GMT
As soon as I saw the title I instantly thought vjaska
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Post by rhys on Oct 12, 2018 14:04:14 GMT
I guess the changes make a lot of sense. A couple of years ago, when they rearranged the bus stops at Brixton station, it made it a lot harder for those who are heading towards Herne Hill (like myself), to have an option between the 3 & 196 (unless you were to run when the first one appears), as both of their stops are now at different ends of the main strip in Brixton. I do understand that was a logical decision to have routes towards Streatham stopping outside H&M & EE, and routes towards Tulse Hill stop outside KFC, given the direction they set off it (since they made the small section of Brixton Hill, outside the town, hall 2-way) . But I'm glad to see TfL are now doing something else to combat the knock-on effect the stop changes had. Also, the new arrangements give buses towards Streatham a lot more space when stopping at Brixton, often times you can have several turn up at once, and not all serve their actual stop (cough cough the 59 in particularly).
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Post by sid on Oct 12, 2018 14:17:49 GMT
I guess the changes make a lot of sense. A couple of years ago, when they rearranged the bus stops at Brixton station, it made it a lot harder for those who are heading towards Herne Hill (like myself), to have an option between the 3 & 196 (unless you were to run when the first one appears), as both of their stops are now at different ends of the main strip in Brixton. I do understand that was a logical decision to have routes towards Streatham stopping outside H&M & EE, and routes towards Tulse Hill stop outside KFC, given the direction they set off it (since the small section of Brixton Hill, outside the town hall 2-way) . But I'm glad to see TfL are now doing something else to combat the knock-on effect the stop changes had. Also, the new arrangements give buses towards Streatham a lot more space when stopping at Brixton, often times you can have several turn up at once, and not all serve their actual stop (cough cough the 59 in particularly). I always thought it a bit odd that the 3 and 196 serve different stops but it's impossible to please everybody. The concern I would have about reducing it from three to two southbound bus stops is the amount of buses trying to serve each stop. I think TfL need to have a limit on how many buses an hour can be safely accommodated at one bus stop.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 13, 2018 1:18:28 GMT
I guess the changes make a lot of sense. A couple of years ago, when they rearranged the bus stops at Brixton station, it made it a lot harder for those who are heading towards Herne Hill (like myself), to have an option between the 3 & 196 (unless you were to run when the first one appears), as both of their stops are now at different ends of the main strip in Brixton. I do understand that was a logical decision to have routes towards Streatham stopping outside H&M & EE, and routes towards Tulse Hill stop outside KFC, given the direction they set off it (since they made the small section of Brixton Hill, outside the town, hall 2-way) . But I'm glad to see TfL are now doing something else to combat the knock-on effect the stop changes had. Also, the new arrangements give buses towards Streatham a lot more space when stopping at Brixton, often times you can have several turn up at once, and not all serve their actual stop (cough cough the 59 in particularly). Indeed, makes a change for something sensible to be proposed and something I've called for to happen in the past though without losing the third stop - it's always been annoying to have the 3 stop away from the other Herne Hill & Tulse Hill bound routes in Brixton and yet it's been doing that all my life. It will be strange to see no bus stop outside work anymore though. However, that's also where two issues will crop up: 1) Moving the loading bay makes it more awkward for the night team where I work to move cages between the lorry & the shop especially when having to maneuver through crowds of people 2) I can see people coming from the tube & Iceland who use the stops at Bus Stop N not being particularly pleased that they have to walk all the way up to KFC. On a nitpicky point, I also notice that on the map in the consultation, St. Matthews Road doesn't have it's current layout including the new bus lane put months ago.
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Post by M1104 on Oct 13, 2018 8:24:16 GMT
Having driven the 355 I imagine drivers will be happier with the bus stop to be moved further up the road. I used to find it irritating having the stop more or less at the tube entrance[1] where a perpetual flow of punters had every chance of reaching my bus before I could properly close the doors for departure. Imagine it's similar for the 3 and 35.
[1] - even worse with it being at the end of the line
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Oct 13, 2018 11:53:08 GMT
I'd prefer that the P4 terminates at the stop closer to the tube station, but overall it looks a good idea.
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Post by busaholic on Oct 13, 2018 20:11:56 GMT
As consultations go, it's not one to get too exercised about, and may even have some merit. Personally, I'd prefer to see the three stops retained, and the 196 moved down to join the 3. In my experience, over many years but only a few times every year (occasionally none at all) it's the 3 that gets the longest hold-ups, particularly if there's been a gap in service. All my observations are during the second half of the p.m. rush or early evening. The 196 doesn't need to be considered by Tulse Hill/ West Norwood bound passengers in normal circumstances as they have sufficient alternatives, and the very few passengers for Crystal Palace can just look at Countdown and choose their stop as appropriate. If the 3 joins the Tulse Hill mob, particularly now it's lost bph, it'll just block the stop.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 14, 2018 0:46:00 GMT
As consultations go, it's not one to get too exercised about, and may even have some merit. Personally, I'd prefer to see the three stops retained, and the 196 moved down to join the 3. In my experience, over many years but only a few times every year (occasionally none at all) it's the 3 that gets the longest hold-ups, particularly if there's been a gap in service. All my observations are during the second half of the p.m. rush or early evening. The 196 doesn't need to be considered by Tulse Hill/ West Norwood bound passengers in normal circumstances as they have sufficient alternatives, and the very few passengers for Crystal Palace can just look at Countdown and choose their stop as appropriate. If the 3 joins the Tulse Hill mob, particularly now it's lost bph, it'll just block the stop. The stops get blocked anyway so moving the 3 to the stop outside KFC wouldn't cause too much hardship and would actually release space from stop N outside Iceland where buses can cause issues by the pelican crossing when arriving together which would be exasperated by the 196 also stopping there. I agree though that I'd keep three stops going but I'd leave the 35, 355 & P4 serving the stop outside Iceland and just move the 3 to the stop outside KFC
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Post by rhys on Oct 14, 2018 2:37:06 GMT
As consultations go, it's not one to get too exercised about, and may even have some merit. Personally, I'd prefer to see the three stops retained, and the 196 moved down to join the 3. In my experience, over many years but only a few times every year (occasionally none at all) it's the 3 that gets the longest hold-ups, particularly if there's been a gap in service. All my observations are during the second half of the p.m. rush or early evening. The 196 doesn't need to be considered by Tulse Hill/ West Norwood bound passengers in normal circumstances as they have sufficient alternatives, and the very few passengers for Crystal Palace can just look at Countdown and choose their stop as appropriate. If the 3 joins the Tulse Hill mob, particularly now it's lost bph, it'll just block the stop. I disagree. The 3 seems to be a lot faster with getting in/out of Brixton, since it’s NRM operation started 2 years ago. I think the 3 door boarding definitely does speed up loading times. So I highly doubt it’ll block any stop. I also think there aren’t ‘very few passengers’, as you claim, waiting to go towards Crystal Palace, the 3 is the one bus that is always packed from Brixton, right up to Crystal Palace, do remember the 3 does serve the southern part of Croxted Road, South Croxted Road and part of Dulwich Wood Park, by itself. There are no other alternatives. Plus the 3 does have a faster routing to Crystal Palace than it’s other counterparts from Brixton, imo (322/432) I will agree that the 196 originally shouldn’t have been grouped with the routes heading towards Tulse Hill, given its routing through Herne Hill, prior to reaching Tulse Hill, but I honestly feel like this consultation will help solve it. Also note that TfL are planning to move the bus stop towards Streatham, further back, to allow for extra stopping space for buses towards Herne Hill, Tulse Hill & Clapham. On a side note, I personally don’t see that many gaps in the 3s service since the route has been chopped down a bit, and since the route’s been at WL. You do get a bit of bunching from time to time, but not to the point where it’s having a detrimental effect on the rest of the service. The 196 however is completely different story.
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Post by ronnie on Oct 14, 2018 5:35:49 GMT
When I initially saw the title, I thought this was another axe to bus services! Must say (although I will leave it to members who are more local) that this is sensible (for a change) from tfl
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Post by busaholic on Oct 14, 2018 20:34:28 GMT
As consultations go, it's not one to get too exercised about, and may even have some merit. Personally, I'd prefer to see the three stops retained, and the 196 moved down to join the 3. In my experience, over many years but only a few times every year (occasionally none at all) it's the 3 that gets the longest hold-ups, particularly if there's been a gap in service. All my observations are during the second half of the p.m. rush or early evening. The 196 doesn't need to be considered by Tulse Hill/ West Norwood bound passengers in normal circumstances as they have sufficient alternatives, and the very few passengers for Crystal Palace can just look at Countdown and choose their stop as appropriate. If the 3 joins the Tulse Hill mob, particularly now it's lost bph, it'll just block the stop. I disagree. The 3 seems to be a lot faster with getting in/out of Brixton, since it’s NRM operation started 2 years ago. I think the 3 door boarding definitely does speed up loading times. So I highly doubt it’ll block any stop. I also think there aren’t ‘very few passengers’, as you claim, waiting to go towards Crystal Palace, the 3 is the one bus that is always packed from Brixton, right up to Crystal Palace, do remember the 3 does serve the southern part of Croxted Road, South Croxted Road and part of Dulwich Wood Park, by itself. There are no other alternatives. Plus the 3 does have a faster routing to Crystal Palace than it’s other counterparts from Brixton, imo (322/432) I will agree that the 196 originally shouldn’t have been grouped with the routes heading towards Tulse Hill, given its routing through Herne Hill, prior to reaching Tulse Hill, but I honestly feel like this consultation will help solve it. Also note that TfL are planning to move the bus stop towards Streatham, further back, to allow for extra stopping space for buses towards Herne Hill, Tulse Hill & Clapham. On a side note, I personally don’t see that many gaps in the 3s service since the route has been chopped down a bit, and since the route’s been at WL. You do get a bit of bunching from time to time, but not to the point where it’s having a detrimental effect on the rest of the service. The 196 however is completely different story. I admit my experiences with the 3 at Brixton were almost all prior to NRM conversion, so that's an interesting point. I think you misunderstood what I meant about Crystal Palace passengers, probably due to my way of expressing it. I meant to imply that there were few passengers at any one time standing at those stops in Brixton waiting for a bus right up to Crystal Palace Parade, as a percentage of all the people waiting for the various buses: indeed, given the 322 also goes there, as you say,some passengers might well prefer to use the Police Station stops.
I'm glad to hear that WL are making a success of the 3 - I remember WL running the route in real Routemaster days, and I spent years at secondary school gazing out of the window as WL's buses on the 176 and 185 passed by.
Sorry to read about the 196, though, given how much better the route was until recently compared to 15/20 years ago, when it was an absolute disgrace.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 14, 2018 22:17:58 GMT
I can easily see a far few people taking the 3 from Crystal Palace to Brixton for the Victoria as opposed to walking down the hill to CP Station, paying a zone 3 fare and only having 4 tph to Victoria. Whenever I take the 3 it's busy from the first stop in CP with a large amount disembarking in Brixton.
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Post by busaholic on Oct 14, 2018 23:01:54 GMT
I can easily see a far few people taking the 3 from Crystal Palace to Brixton for the Victoria as opposed to walking down the hill to CP Station, paying a zone 3 fare and only having 4 tph to Victoria. Whenever I take the 3 it's busy from the first stop in CP with a large amount disembarking in Brixton. Indeed: for a period there was a Monday to Friday 3A service which mopped up the local passengers between those two points, an opo service supplementing the then crew 3. I'm a big fan of the 3 and oppose any cutbacks to either its routeing or its frequency on principle.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 14, 2018 23:23:00 GMT
I can easily see a far few people taking the 3 from Crystal Palace to Brixton for the Victoria as opposed to walking down the hill to CP Station, paying a zone 3 fare and only having 4 tph to Victoria. Whenever I take the 3 it's busy from the first stop in CP with a large amount disembarking in Brixton. I don't think it's that severe - plenty of people still use the 3 to & from Palace and will continue to do so after the changes. What's interesting is both the 3 & 432 have many people using it to do a Palace to Brixton journey & vice versa - clearly some have a particular preference for one over the other - if I'm in a hurry, I take the 3 up to Palace but if I'm not or it's early morning on non schooldays, then I take the 432 as the traffic queue on Central Hill wouldn't have formed by that point. The 322 doesn't see many Brixton to Palace journeys but then that's expected as that's not it's primary role.
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