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Post by dla314 on Aug 5, 2019 22:36:13 GMT
A trident on the 86 one last time
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Post by george on Aug 5, 2019 22:45:52 GMT
Avondale would likely be a problem, also by the time you make it upstairs the bus would have reached it's destination 😀 If I weren't for the parked cars I would think that a double decker can get down Avondale Road. The 9's Routemaster went down there when it went to Mortlake. So I think double deckers would have problems down there. Aren't double deckers much longer now adays? The turn into the bus station I think would be the problem. I think TfL would be careful because of this accident www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2017/apr/25/family-tragedy-tfl-bus-drivers-transport-safety. A few years back an old gentlemen was killed by a 216 double decker in sunbury and ever since Double deckers have been banned.
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Post by richard on Aug 6, 2019 0:10:36 GMT
A trident on the 277 and the 30 (if it was still Stagecoch) or even better the 205
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Post by COBO on Aug 6, 2019 0:43:05 GMT
If I weren't for the parked cars I would think that a double decker can get down Avondale Road. The 9's Routemaster went down there when it went to Mortlake. So I think double deckers would have problems down there. Aren't double deckers much longer now adays? The turn into the bus station I think would be the problem. I think TfL would be careful because of this accident www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2017/apr/25/family-tragedy-tfl-bus-drivers-transport-safety. A few years back an old gentlemen was killed by a 216 double decker in sunbury and ever since Double deckers have been banned. I wonder if a route test has ever been performed to see if double deckers can go into the bus station.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 6, 2019 0:49:46 GMT
If I weren't for the parked cars I would think that a double decker can get down Avondale Road. The 9's Routemaster went down there when it went to Mortlake. So I think double deckers would have problems down there. Aren't double deckers much longer now adays? The turn into the bus station I think would be the problem. I think TfL would be careful because of this accident www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2017/apr/25/family-tragedy-tfl-bus-drivers-transport-safety. A few years back an old gentlemen was killed by a 216 double decker in sunbury and ever since Double deckers have been banned. The double deckers that London have generally range between 10.2m-10.6m bar certain types like Scanias and LT's which have longer lengths. Double deckers are usually wider than single deckers as well. COBO RM's are much shorter being below 10m & should be narrower in width as well. Turning circles of various buses also play a part as well.
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Post by COBO on Aug 6, 2019 0:51:15 GMT
The double deckers that London have generally range between 10.2m-10.6m bar certain types like Scanias and LT's which have longer lengths. Double deckers are usually wider than single deckers as well. COBO RM's are much shorter being below 10m & should be narrower in width as well. Turning circles of various buses also play a part as well. Thanks.
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Post by redexpress on Aug 6, 2019 7:17:16 GMT
If I weren't for the parked cars I would think that a double decker can get down Avondale Road. The 9's Routemaster went down there when it went to Mortlake. So I think double deckers would have problems down there. Aren't double deckers much longer now adays? The turn into the bus station I think would be the problem. I think TfL would be careful because of this accident www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2017/apr/25/family-tragedy-tfl-bus-drivers-transport-safety. A few years back an old gentlemen was killed by a 216 double decker in sunbury and ever since Double deckers have been banned. As far as I'm aware the 216 tragedy had nothing to do with the fact that it was a DD. I suspect it was more of an emotive issue; locals put 2 and 2 together and blamed the DD, and rather than add to the anguish by arguing the case it was probably easier to impose an unofficial DD ban, given that there is no contractual requirement for DDs on the route anyway.
The Mortlake tragedy referred to in the above article involved a single-decker on the 209, and was down to the behaviour of the bus driver (who was jailed). The vehicle type wouldn't have made a difference. I don't think TfL should be accepting the argument that DDs are inherently less safe than SDs. However Avondale Road residents would be likely to object to a regular DD service down what is a narrow residential road. Yes it used to have a regular DD service, but that was a long time ago.
That said, I understand the 209 was to have been tendered with a DD option in 2016 if it hadn't gained a 2-year extension. Whether it would still have used Avondale Road, I don't know.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 6, 2019 8:03:45 GMT
MV on the 452
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Post by george on Aug 6, 2019 8:39:14 GMT
As far as I'm aware the 216 tragedy had nothing to do with the fact that it was a DD. I suspect it was more of an emotive issue; locals put 2 and 2 together and blamed the DD, and rather than add to the anguish by arguing the case it was probably easier to impose an unofficial DD ban, given that there is no contractual requirement for DDs on the route anyway.
The Mortlake tragedy referred to in the above article involved a single-decker on the 209, and was down to the behaviour of the bus driver (who was jailed). The vehicle type wouldn't have made a difference. I don't think TfL should be accepting the argument that DDs are inherently less safe than SDs. However Avondale Road residents would be likely to object to a regular DD service down what is a narrow residential road. Yes it used to have a regular DD service, but that was a long time ago.
That said, I understand the 209 was to have been tendered with a DD option in 2016 if it hadn't gained a 2-year extension. Whether it would still have used Avondale Road, I don't know.
oh ok fair enough, I was just adding two and two together since the last time a double decker did the 216 was the day of the crash. For the 209 incident I'm aware it was a single decker that caused the crash but a double decker bus going through a small residential street is more likely to crash. I don't know why a double decker option was considered has Hammersmith Bridge would have stopped them for appearing maybe they thought they thought the bridge would be fixed much quicker than it was. Obviously the 72 was won with double decker buses.
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Post by george on Aug 6, 2019 8:40:22 GMT
I wonder if a route test has ever been performed to see if double deckers can go into the bus station. I doubt one has been done as of yet because until recently both routes that went into the bus station had to go over Hammersmith Bridge.
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Post by COBO on Aug 6, 2019 10:37:03 GMT
As far as I'm aware the 216 tragedy had nothing to do with the fact that it was a DD. I suspect it was more of an emotive issue; locals put 2 and 2 together and blamed the DD, and rather than add to the anguish by arguing the case it was probably easier to impose an unofficial DD ban, given that there is no contractual requirement for DDs on the route anyway.
The Mortlake tragedy referred to in the above article involved a single-decker on the 209, and was down to the behaviour of the bus driver (who was jailed). The vehicle type wouldn't have made a difference. I don't think TfL should be accepting the argument that DDs are inherently less safe than SDs. However Avondale Road residents would be likely to object to a regular DD service down what is a narrow residential road. Yes it used to have a regular DD service, but that was a long time ago.
That said, I understand the 209 was to have been tendered with a DD option in 2016 if it hadn't gained a 2-year extension. Whether it would still have used Avondale Road, I don't know.
oh ok fair enough, I was just adding two and two together since the last time a double decker did the 216 was the day of the crash. For the 209 incident I'm aware it was a single decker that caused the crash but a double decker bus going through a small residential street is more likely to crash. I don't know why a double decker option was considered has Hammersmith Bridge would have stopped them for appearing maybe they thought they thought the bridge would be fixed much quicker than it was. Obviously the 72 was won with double decker buses. Maybe it was for preparation for the strengthening of Hammersmith Bridge.
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Post by COBO on Aug 6, 2019 10:39:25 GMT
I wonder if a route test has ever been performed to see if double deckers can go into the bus station. I doubt one has been done as of yet because until recently both routes that went into the bus station had to go over Hammersmith Bridge. Yeah but at one point Hammersmith Bridge was going to strengthened couldn’t the 209 have been route tested to see which of the routes going over Hammersmith Bridge could be converted to double deck once Hammersmith Bridge have been strengthened.
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Post by snowman on Aug 6, 2019 11:08:17 GMT
I doubt one has been done as of yet because until recently both routes that went into the bus station had to go over Hammersmith Bridge. Yeah but at one point Hammersmith Bridge was going to strengthened couldn’t the 209 have been route tested to see which of the routes going over Hammersmith Bridge could be converted to double deck once Hammersmith Bridge have been strengthened. Avondale Road has no height restriction The bus station is just an open air stand with a standard bus shelter and a single storey building on a traffic island, not a proper bus station with any form of roof, so no logical reason that double decks would not fit.
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Post by COBO on Aug 6, 2019 11:13:18 GMT
As far as I'm aware the 216 tragedy had nothing to do with the fact that it was a DD. I suspect it was more of an emotive issue; locals put 2 and 2 together and blamed the DD, and rather than add to the anguish by arguing the case it was probably easier to impose an unofficial DD ban, given that there is no contractual requirement for DDs on the route anyway.
The Mortlake tragedy referred to in the above article involved a single-decker on the 209, and was down to the behaviour of the bus driver (who was jailed). The vehicle type wouldn't have made a difference. I don't think TfL should be accepting the argument that DDs are inherently less safe than SDs. However Avondale Road residents would be likely to object to a regular DD service down what is a narrow residential road. Yes it used to have a regular DD service, but that was a long time ago.
That said, I understand the 209 was to have been tendered with a DD option in 2016 if it hadn't gained a 2-year extension. Whether it would still have used Avondale Road, I don't know.
oh ok fair enough, I was just adding two and two together since the last time a double decker did the 216 was the day of the crash. For the 209 incident I'm aware it was a single decker that caused the crash but a double decker bus going through a small residential street is more likely to crash. I don't know why a double decker option was considered has Hammersmith Bridge would have stopped them for appearing maybe they thought they thought the bridge would be fixed much quicker than it was. Obviously the 72 was won with double decker buses. The 297, E1, E3 and H12 use double deckers and they all go along small residential streets and don’t have problems.
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Post by george on Aug 6, 2019 11:32:16 GMT
Yeah but at one point Hammersmith Bridge was going to strengthened couldn’t the 209 have been route tested to see which of the routes going over Hammersmith Bridge could be converted to double deck once Hammersmith Bridge have been strengthened. Avondale Road has no height restriction The bus station is just an open air stand with a standard bus shelter and a single storey building on a traffic island, not a proper bus station with any form of roof, so no logical reason that double decks would not fit. Yes I Know but don't double deckers have a much wider overhang? I think thats were the problem lies.
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