Upcoming Bus Consultations

[paulsw2]

Nov 8, 2018 10:41:53 GMT vjaska said:

Nov 8, 2018 9:34:55 GMT SILENCED said:

Surely there is enough bus traffic from West Croydon to TH Pond for single deckers to suffice 60,109,198,250,289 ... would that little extra capacity that like be lost be genuinely needed?

I'd imagine so as the 64 does pick up people along London Road going beyond Croydon not to mention the Whitgift & Dingwall Road stops being very popular for passengers wanting a 64. Don't forget that the 433 will be running at its current frequency which is lower than the 64 (64 is every 7-8 minutes Monday to Saturday whilst 433 is every 10 minutes Monday to Friday and every 15 minutes on Saturdays) so there will be lost capacity anyway.

When the original 130 ran from New Addington to Streatham it created a link between the massive estate and Mayday hospital with the removal of the 130 and subsequent rerouting of the 64 it maintained the link cutting the 64 back to West Croydon would be a retrograde step I believe as it is not just for patient/visitor benefit but also for the large amounts of hospital staff that commute in

[sid]

Nov 8, 2018 13:04:15 GMT paulsw2 said:

Nov 8, 2018 10:41:53 GMT vjaska said:

I'd imagine so as the 64 does pick up people along London Road going beyond Croydon not to mention the Whitgift & Dingwall Road stops being very popular for passengers wanting a 64. Don't forget that the 433 will be running at its current frequency which is lower than the 64 (64 is every 7-8 minutes Monday to Saturday whilst 433 is every 10 minutes Monday to Friday and every 15 minutes on Saturdays) so there will be lost capacity anyway.

When the original 130 ran from New Addington to Streatham it created a link between the massive estate and Mayday hospital with the removal of the 130 and subsequent rerouting of the 64 it maintained the link cutting the 64 back to West Croydon would be a retrograde step I believe as it is not just for patient/visitor benefit but also for the large amounts of hospital staff that commute in

I remember the old 130 very well but nowadays anybody wanting to get from New Addington to Mayday would probably use Tramlink to West Croydon and a bus from there.

There are five other routes between West Croydon and Thornton Heath Pond giving around 30bph and I'd much rather cuts were made there than on the 468 which has very little in the way of alternatives.

Another option would be to merge the 64 and 250 into one route but it would probably be deemed too long by todays standards but Brixton to Addington Village should be viable with the 433 extended up to New Addington.

[vjaska]

Nov 8, 2018 13:16:29 GMT sid said:

Nov 8, 2018 13:04:15 GMT paulsw2 said:

When the original 130 ran from New Addington to Streatham it created a link between the massive estate and Mayday hospital with the removal of the 130 and subsequent rerouting of the 64 it maintained the link cutting the 64 back to West Croydon would be a retrograde step I believe as it is not just for patient/visitor benefit but also for the large amounts of hospital staff that commute in

I remember the old 130 very well but nowadays anybody wanting to get from New Addington to Mayday would probably use Tramlink to West Croydon and a bus from there.

There are five other routes between West Croydon and Thornton Heath Pond giving around 30bph and I'd much rather cuts were made there than on the 468 which has very little in the way of alternatives.

Another option would be to merge the 64 and 250 into one route but it would probably be deemed too long by todays standards but Brixton to Addington Village should be viable with the 433 extended up to New Addington.

Brixton to Addington Village is far too long - the 109 takes just under an hour to Croydon & the 250 takes over an hour to reach Croydon. The 64 itself takes a while as well so easy to see just how unworkable it would be.

[vjaska]

Nov 8, 2018 13:04:15 GMT paulsw2 said:

Nov 8, 2018 10:41:53 GMT vjaska said:

I'd imagine so as the 64 does pick up people along London Road going beyond Croydon not to mention the Whitgift & Dingwall Road stops being very popular for passengers wanting a 64. Don't forget that the 433 will be running at its current frequency which is lower than the 64 (64 is every 7-8 minutes Monday to Saturday whilst 433 is every 10 minutes Monday to Friday and every 15 minutes on Saturdays) so there will be lost capacity anyway.

When the original 130 ran from New Addington to Streatham it created a link between the massive estate and Mayday hospital with the removal of the 130 and subsequent rerouting of the 64 it maintained the link cutting the 64 back to West Croydon would be a retrograde step I believe as it is not just for patient/visitor benefit but also for the large amounts of hospital staff that commute in

Just to clarify, I don’t want to see it happen one bit and I’d much rather it retained as currently.

[MoEnviro]

Nov 8, 2018 12:17:05 GMT twobellstogo said:

Nov 8, 2018 11:19:30 GMT sid said:

However the 15 does often need assistance with loadings to and from the Tower. If the 15H only runs weekends they are going to be taking up valuable space in the garage all week although they would come in handy in the event of a tube strike.

I suspect around three RMs plus long derelict RM1280 will be sold with that sort of reduction on the 15H

Interestingly there is an article in this weeks Coach and Bus Week claiming 'Heritage Route 'not under threat'...

The article speaks to TfL press spokesman Andy Day who says "there are no plans for changes to the H15 at the moment".

P.S the article refers to the 'H'15 multiple times. Obviously not to be confused with any harrow based routes. It also gets the introduction year of the route wrong. 

Now I wouldn't be surprised if this is one TfL department not speaking to the other. 

[John tuthill]

Nov 8, 2018 18:08:32 GMT MoEnviro said:

Nov 8, 2018 12:17:05 GMT twobellstogo said:

I suspect around three RMs plus long derelict RM1280 will be sold with that sort of reduction on the 15H

Interestingly there is an article in this weeks Coach and Bus Week claiming 'Heritage Route 'not under threat'...

The article speaks to TfL press spokesman Andy Day who says "there are no plans for changes to the H15 at the moment".

P.S the article refers to the 'H'15 multiple times. Obviously not to be confused with any harrow based routes. It also gets the introduction year of the route wrong. 

Now I wouldn't be surprised if this is one TfL department not speaking to the other. 

Don't be!!

[busaholic]

Nov 8, 2018 18:23:28 GMT John tuthill said:

Nov 8, 2018 18:08:32 GMT MoEnviro said:

Interestingly there is an article in this weeks Coach and Bus Week claiming 'Heritage Route 'not under threat'...

The article speaks to TfL press spokesman Andy Day who says "there are no plans for changes to the H15 at the moment".

P.S the article refers to the 'H'15 multiple times. Obviously not to be confused with any harrow based routes. It also gets the introduction year of the route wrong. 

Now I wouldn't be surprised if this is one TfL department not speaking to the other. 

Don't be!!

I'm not defending TfL or Andy Day in any way, but 15H is only an internal TfL route number and of no relevance to the general public, for whom it is 'the old buses on the 15' or whatever, so calling it H15 is not a great error. Speaking to a trade magazine without checking with all relevant departments, particularly with informed rumour in the air, is, on the other hand, unprofessional. 

[twobellstogo]

Nov 7, 2018 23:11:49 GMT snoggle said:

Nov 7, 2018 22:31:27 GMT twobellstogo said:

Just read on Facebook that a 15H consultation is imminent - reduction to summer weekends and bank holidays.
I love Routemasters but for me, use of heritage vehicles at running days and rallies is infinitely preferable to the 15H, and there are many opportunities to ride on interesting buses most weekends from April right through to the beginning of December nowadays.

Ooh a consultation where I can take a more extreme position that TfL! Bin the whole route.

I say this as an RM fan : yes, it’s time is up, I feel.
Riding properly turned out RMs at running days is way better than the 15H. Looking forward to the 104/104A running day later this month 🙂

[snoggle]

Not necessarily all consultation related but this is an extract from a London Assembly letter which contains a list of possible TfL bus service changes. Obviously some have happened, some have been consulted on but there is new stuff in the list. Interesting that the E10 entry still refers to increasing frequency whereas TfL have ruled that out in the Crossrail results. Seems one part of TfL doesn't know what the other part is doing. We also know that TfL haven't activated the extra frequency on the 158 in the new contract with Arriva London.

Appendix – Views of the Labour Group
We support the views expressed in this letter, apart from those relating to Outer London.

Current Plans for Outer London

The Mayor does have plans to deliver on commitments to shift bus service capacity from Central to Outer London. Indeed, on 4th October TfL provided the Transport Committee with an indicative list of bus routes that they are looking to make changes to in 2018 and 2019. They are:

• Extensions of routes EL1 and EL3 further into the Barking Riverside area. By Early 2019
• Extend route E10 via South Ealing, and increasing frequency
• New route 301 from Bexleyheath to Woolwich via Abbey Wood
• Extension of route 125 to Colindale, and changes to route 384 to give new and better orbital links across LB Barnet (early 2019)
• Route 485 extended to Wandsworth Riverside in late 2019
• Route 440 extended to Wembley by early 2019
• Network and frequency changes to support development at Old Oak Common to extend routes 218, 302
• Extension of route 425 to Ilford in 2018
• Higher frequencies on route 158 in NE London in 2019
• Potential to extend route 164 or 280 to London Cancer Hub
• Extend route 470 to Epsom hospital in early 2019
• Enhancing routes 404 and 434 to serve housing estates in Coulsdon in 2019
• Potential for new route to North Middlesex hospital
• Increase frequency of 112 and extend to North Finchley during 2019

This list contains 19 current or planned routes, compared to the 34 current/planned routes in the Central London review. We expect that, as demand in Outer London increases, so will the Bus Service volume, through new routes and more frequent services.

[COBO]

TfL are planning to extend it the 112 to North Finchley, is the 112 not busy enough?

[danorak]

Nov 13, 2018 16:49:58 GMT snoggle said:

Not necessarily all consultation related but this is an extract from a London Assembly letter which contains a list of possible TfL bus service changes. Obviously some have happened, some have been consulted on but there is new stuff in the list. Interesting that the E10 entry still refers to increasing frequency whereas TfL have ruled that out in the Crossrail results. Seems one part of TfL doesn't know what the other part is doing. We also know that TfL haven't activated the extra frequency on the 158 in the new contract with Arriva London.

Appendix – Views of the Labour Group
We support the views expressed in this letter, apart from those relating to Outer London.

Current Plans for Outer London

The Mayor does have plans to deliver on commitments to shift bus service capacity from Central to Outer London. Indeed, on 4th October TfL provided the Transport Committee with an indicative list of bus routes that they are looking to make changes to in 2018 and 2019. They are:

• Extensions of routes EL1 and EL3 further into the Barking Riverside area. By Early 2019
• Extend route E10 via South Ealing, and increasing frequency
• New route 301 from Bexleyheath to Woolwich via Abbey Wood
• Extension of route 125 to Colindale, and changes to route 384 to give new and better orbital links across LB Barnet (early 2019)
• Route 485 extended to Wandsworth Riverside in late 2019
• Route 440 extended to Wembley by early 2019
• Network and frequency changes to support development at Old Oak Common to extend routes 218, 302
• Extension of route 425 to Ilford in 2018
• Higher frequencies on route 158 in NE London in 2019
• Potential to extend route 164 or 280 to London Cancer Hub
• Extend route 470 to Epsom hospital in early 2019
• Enhancing routes 404 and 434 to serve housing estates in Coulsdon in 2019
• Potential for new route to North Middlesex hospital
• Increase frequency of 112 and extend to North Finchley during 2019

This list contains 19 current or planned routes, compared to the 34 current/planned routes in the Central London review. We expect that, as demand in Outer London increases, so will the Bus Service volume, through new routes and more frequent services.

Pretty feeble stuff really. The 301 is pretty much resourced by changes to other local routes, while the 425 just replaces short working 25s. New developments like Old Oak Common and Barking Riverside have always led to new services and 'potential' is just that - there's very little of substance here.

[vjaska]

Nov 13, 2018 16:49:58 GMT snoggle said:

Not necessarily all consultation related but this is an extract from a London Assembly letter which contains a list of possible TfL bus service changes. Obviously some have happened, some have been consulted on but there is new stuff in the list. Interesting that the E10 entry still refers to increasing frequency whereas TfL have ruled that out in the Crossrail results. Seems one part of TfL doesn't know what the other part is doing. We also know that TfL haven't activated the extra frequency on the 158 in the new contract with Arriva London.

Appendix – Views of the Labour Group
We support the views expressed in this letter, apart from those relating to Outer London.

Current Plans for Outer London

The Mayor does have plans to deliver on commitments to shift bus service capacity from Central to Outer London. Indeed, on 4th October TfL provided the Transport Committee with an indicative list of bus routes that they are looking to make changes to in 2018 and 2019. They are:

• Extensions of routes EL1 and EL3 further into the Barking Riverside area. By Early 2019
• Extend route E10 via South Ealing, and increasing frequency
• New route 301 from Bexleyheath to Woolwich via Abbey Wood
• Extension of route 125 to Colindale, and changes to route 384 to give new and better orbital links across LB Barnet (early 2019)
• Route 485 extended to Wandsworth Riverside in late 2019
• Route 440 extended to Wembley by early 2019
• Network and frequency changes to support development at Old Oak Common to extend routes 218, 302
• Extension of route 425 to Ilford in 2018
• Higher frequencies on route 158 in NE London in 2019
• Potential to extend route 164 or 280 to London Cancer Hub
• Extend route 470 to Epsom hospital in early 2019
• Enhancing routes 404 and 434 to serve housing estates in Coulsdon in 2019
• Potential for new route to North Middlesex hospital
• Increase frequency of 112 and extend to North Finchley during 2019

This list contains 19 current or planned routes, compared to the 34 current/planned routes in the Central London review. We expect that, as demand in Outer London increases, so will the Bus Service volume, through new routes and more frequent services.

Can they simply not leave the 112 alone - the Osterley extension idea was bad enough but now an extension to North Finchley - great way to wreck its reliability!

[busaholic]

Nov 13, 2018 19:10:27 GMT vjaska said:

Nov 13, 2018 16:49:58 GMT snoggle said:

Not necessarily all consultation related but this is an extract from a London Assembly letter which contains a list of possible TfL bus service changes. Obviously some have happened, some have been consulted on but there is new stuff in the list. Interesting that the E10 entry still refers to increasing frequency whereas TfL have ruled that out in the Crossrail results. Seems one part of TfL doesn't know what the other part is doing. We also know that TfL haven't activated the extra frequency on the 158 in the new contract with Arriva London.

Can they simply not leave the 112 alone - the Osterley extension idea was bad enough but now an extension to North Finchley - great way to wreck its reliability!

Perhaps some fantasist at TfL has taken time from banging their head on their desk by looking at the 141 (the only route to be extended a significant distance at each end in recent years?) and thought the 112 could receive similar treatment. Maybe a link between North Finchley and Winchmore Hill should be added, to create one horseshoe shaped route. Arriva buses in Ealing? Wow!

[COBO]

Nov 13, 2018 16:49:58 GMT snoggle said:

Not necessarily all consultation related but this is an extract from a London Assembly letter which contains a list of possible TfL bus service changes. Obviously some have happened, some have been consulted on but there is new stuff in the list. Interesting that the E10 entry still refers to increasing frequency whereas TfL have ruled that out in the Crossrail results. Seems one part of TfL doesn't know what the other part is doing. We also know that TfL haven't activated the extra frequency on the 158 in the new contract with Arriva London.

Appendix – Views of the Labour Group
We support the views expressed in this letter, apart from those relating to Outer London.

Current Plans for Outer London

The Mayor does have plans to deliver on commitments to shift bus service capacity from Central to Outer London. Indeed, on 4th October TfL provided the Transport Committee with an indicative list of bus routes that they are looking to make changes to in 2018 and 2019. They are:

• Extensions of routes EL1 and EL3 further into the Barking Riverside area. By Early 2019
• Extend route E10 via South Ealing, and increasing frequency
• New route 301 from Bexleyheath to Woolwich via Abbey Wood
• Extension of route 125 to Colindale, and changes to route 384 to give new and better orbital links across LB Barnet (early 2019)
• Route 485 extended to Wandsworth Riverside in late 2019
• Route 440 extended to Wembley by early 2019
• Network and frequency changes to support development at Old Oak Common to extend routes 218, 302
• Extension of route 425 to Ilford in 2018
• Higher frequencies on route 158 in NE London in 2019
• Potential to extend route 164 or 280 to London Cancer Hub
• Extend route 470 to Epsom hospital in early 2019
• Enhancing routes 404 and 434 to serve housing estates in Coulsdon in 2019
• Potential for new route to North Middlesex hospital
• Increase frequency of 112 and extend to North Finchley during 2019

This list contains 19 current or planned routes, compared to the 34 current/planned routes in the Central London review. We expect that, as demand in Outer London increases, so will the Bus Service volume, through new routes and more frequent services.

Why can’t TfL just double deck the 112? Extending the 112 to North Finchley using the existing single decks make no sense. I wonder if the 611 will be discontinued as a result of this extension?

[TB123]

Nov 6, 2018 23:43:24 GMT snoggle said:

Looks like my cynicism about TfL not publishing future consultations was misplaced. In the new Customer Services report that Snowman linked to there is this list of future consultations.

• Bus service proposals:
– Richmond, Twickenham and Whitton – proposed changes to five routes

– Bus route 470 – proposal to extend route to Epsom Hospital

– Bus routes 404 and 434 – proposed changes to routes in Coulsdon town centre

– Bus route G1 – proposal to reroute service in Tooting

– Bus route 386 – proposal to reroute service in Woolwich town centre

– Croydon town centre - changes to 10 bus routes

The G1, 386 and Croydon routes consultations are brand new. The 470 and 404/434 change has been published on the list before.


The Croydon proposal is either going to be ominous or else some extra resources going into the area.

Just found this - wonder what ever happened to the 386 and G1 consultations?