|
Post by southlondonbus on Dec 11, 2018 21:28:32 GMT
Also the 130/466 which was rumoured may come in the same consultation which would be a saving but would probably be presented as a package of improvements to the south of Croydon area.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Jan 2, 2019 22:40:31 GMT
This consultation gets a mention in the minutes of the October meeting of Croydon Council's Public Transport Liaison Group. democracy.croydon.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=3430The reference to the 410 is interesting - seems like this route is still facing capacity issues and TfL is not quite sure how to tackle it.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jan 2, 2019 22:53:51 GMT
The best thing with the 410 would be to create 2 separate services and strip out the sections that go via tight turns/corners. That would allow even a DD service to be run from Wallington to East Croydon then either via the 197 or 312 to NJ then via the 157 to CP. Extend maybe the 322 ( which has to use small buses anyways) to Croydon via the Crystal Palace backstreets and Davidson Road.
Whilst I understand the busiest part of the route is along Davidson Road which can only take small buses, cacapcity probably isn't helped on by the fact many people from East Croydon use the 410 to get to CP as opposed to walking to the 157 or changing trains. Empty buses starting at Croydon may help the Davidson Road section.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 3, 2019 2:32:32 GMT
This consultation gets a mention in the minutes of the October meeting of Croydon Council's Public Transport Liaison Group. democracy.croydon.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=3430The reference to the 410 is interesting - seems like this route is still facing capacity issues and TfL is not quite sure how to tackle it. The 410 has been facing capacity issues since the days of the DWS's running along the route and yet TfL reduced it's frequency last year which to me is baffling. The interesting thing is that a few ENL's last year actually went out on the route as our resident Route 410 member JaysBusPhotos noted and I believe at least one even successfully negotiated the two tight double runs off Davidson Road which are generally used by passengers. Davidson Road itself isn't an issue as temporary school route 604 ran along there when Stanley Tech had to temporarily relocate whilst the school in Norwood Junction was demolished and rebuilt as Harris Academy - the 604 started off with L's and then gained DLA's.
|
|
|
Post by ibus246 on Jan 3, 2019 3:08:49 GMT
The best thing with the 410 would be to create 2 separate services and strip out the sections that go via tight turns/corners. That would allow even a DD service to be run from Wallington to East Croydon then either via the 197 or 312 to NJ then via the 157 to CP. Extend maybe the 322 ( which has to use small buses anyways) to Croydon via the Crystal Palace backstreets and Davidson Road. Whilst I understand the busiest part of the route is along Davidson Road which can only take small buses, cacapcity probably isn't helped on by the fact many people from East Croydon use the 410 to get to CP as opposed to walking to the 157 or changing trains. Empty buses starting at Croydon may help the Davidson Road section. That’s surely an idea for the ‘fantasy’ thread. Can you imagine the cost implications? Yes the routes busy but there are far worse ones. There seems to be an obsession on this forum wherby when a route has a problem it must be chopped in half and created as two separate routes.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Jan 3, 2019 6:54:01 GMT
The best thing with the 410 would be to create 2 separate services and strip out the sections that go via tight turns/corners. That would allow even a DD service to be run from Wallington to East Croydon then either via the 197 or 312 to NJ then via the 157 to CP. Extend maybe the 322 ( which has to use small buses anyways) to Croydon via the Crystal Palace backstreets and Davidson Road. Whilst I understand the busiest part of the route is along Davidson Road which can only take small buses, cacapcity probably isn't helped on by the fact many people from East Croydon use the 410 to get to CP as opposed to walking to the 157 or changing trains. Empty buses starting at Croydon may help the Davidson Road section. I agree that the Wallington section should be withdrawn and replaced by another route such as the 403. I suggested previously that the 410 should be rerouted via Lansdowne Road rather than Cherry Orchard Road, it would still serve the back of East Croydon station and would improve journey times and would avoid the route being rammed with route 197 passengers. I don't know what else can be done, larger buses are out of the question and increasing the frequency will inevitably mean more buses meeting on narrow sections. I would think most people going from West Croydon to Crystal Palace would take the train which takes about 10 minutes?
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jan 3, 2019 9:42:03 GMT
This consultation gets a mention in the minutes of the October meeting of Croydon Council's Public Transport Liaison Group. democracy.croydon.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=3430The reference to the 410 is interesting - seems like this route is still facing capacity issues and TfL is not quite sure how to tackle it. The 410 has been facing capacity issues since the days of the DWS's running along the route and yet TfL reduced it's frequency last year which to me is baffling. The interesting thing is that a few ENL's last year actually went out on the route as our resident Route 410 member JaysBusPhotos noted and I believe at least one even successfully negotiated the two tight double runs off Davidson Road which are generally used by passengers. Davidson Road itself isn't an issue as temporary school route 604 ran along there when Stanley Tech had to temporarily relocate whilst the school in Norwood Junction was demolished and rebuilt as Harris Academy - the 604 started off with L's and then gained DLA's. I had a friend that used to drive the 410, and he said the main issues where the tight turns on the Upper Norwood back streets, not the Davidson Road double runs.
|
|
|
Post by rj131 on Jan 3, 2019 9:44:06 GMT
The best thing with the 410 would be to create 2 separate services and strip out the sections that go via tight turns/corners. That would allow even a DD service to be run from Wallington to East Croydon then either via the 197 or 312 to NJ then via the 157 to CP. Extend maybe the 322 ( which has to use small buses anyways) to Croydon via the Crystal Palace backstreets and Davidson Road. Whilst I understand the busiest part of the route is along Davidson Road which can only take small buses, cacapcity probably isn't helped on by the fact many people from East Croydon use the 410 to get to CP as opposed to walking to the 157 or changing trains. Empty buses starting at Croydon may help the Davidson Road section. I agree that the Wallington section should be withdrawn and replaced by another route such as the 403. I suggested previously that the 410 should be rerouted via Lansdowne Road rather than Cherry Orchard Road, it would still serve the back of East Croydon station and would improve journey times and would avoid the route being rammed with route 197 passengers. I don't know what else can be done, larger buses are out of the question and increasing the frequency will inevitably mean more buses meeting on narrow sections. I would think most people going from West Croydon to Crystal Palace would take the train which takes about 10 minutes? The 157 is quite popular for CP to West Croydon too.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jan 3, 2019 9:58:30 GMT
I agree that the Wallington section should be withdrawn and replaced by another route such as the 403. I suggested previously that the 410 should be rerouted via Lansdowne Road rather than Cherry Orchard Road, it would still serve the back of East Croydon station and would improve journey times and would avoid the route being rammed with route 197 passengers. I don't know what else can be done, larger buses are out of the question and increasing the frequency will inevitably mean more buses meeting on narrow sections. I would think most people going from West Croydon to Crystal Palace would take the train which takes about 10 minutes? The 157 is quite popular for CP to West Croydon too. Not really sure about that, think both routes are busy at CP, but tend to empty out by South Norwood, just to refill for the Croydon leg. Dont doubt there maybe some few through journies, but imagine any are pretty few. I say this as a regular user of both routes, with the 410 being the bus passing nearest my front door in South Norwood.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jan 3, 2019 10:05:31 GMT
This consultation gets a mention in the minutes of the October meeting of Croydon Council's Public Transport Liaison Group. democracy.croydon.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=3430The reference to the 410 is interesting - seems like this route is still facing capacity issues and TfL is not quite sure how to tackle it. The 410 has been facing capacity issues since the days of the DWS's running along the route and yet TfL reduced it's frequency last year which to me is baffling. The interesting thing is that a few ENL's last year actually went out on the route as our resident Route 410 member JaysBusPhotos noted and I believe at least one even successfully negotiated the two tight double runs off Davidson Road which are generally used by passengers. Davidson Road itself isn't an issue as temporary school route 604 ran along there when Stanley Tech had to temporarily relocate whilst the school in Norwood Junction was demolished and rebuilt as Harris Academy - the 604 started off with L's and then gained DLA's. Davidson Road is always an issue ... but might not be the issue 🤣😂🤣
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 3, 2019 10:09:03 GMT
The best thing with the 410 would be to create 2 separate services and strip out the sections that go via tight turns/corners. That would allow even a DD service to be run from Wallington to East Croydon then either via the 197 or 312 to NJ then via the 157 to CP. Extend maybe the 322 ( which has to use small buses anyways) to Croydon via the Crystal Palace backstreets and Davidson Road. Whilst I understand the busiest part of the route is along Davidson Road which can only take small buses, cacapcity probably isn't helped on by the fact many people from East Croydon use the 410 to get to CP as opposed to walking to the 157 or changing trains. Empty buses starting at Croydon may help the Davidson Road section. I agree that the Wallington section should be withdrawn and replaced by another route such as the 403. I suggested previously that the 410 should be rerouted via Lansdowne Road rather than Cherry Orchard Road, it would still serve the back of East Croydon station and would improve journey times and would avoid the route being rammed with route 197 passengers. I don't know what else can be done, larger buses are out of the question and increasing the frequency will inevitably mean more buses meeting on narrow sections. I would think most people going from West Croydon to Crystal Palace would take the train which takes about 10 minutes? The 410 doesn't get rammed full of 197 passengers, it gets rammed full of its own passengers requiring Davidson Road & beyond - a 197 passenger would wait for a 312 instead. Running via Lansdowne Road towards Crystal Palace means the 410 misses serving East Croydon & interchanging between other routes like the 119 & 466 - the 410's journey times aren't the issue here. Anyone going from Palace to Croydon would take the 157 rather than the 410 but its there to cater for the demand from the back roads between Palace & Norwood Junction.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Jan 3, 2019 10:24:51 GMT
I agree that the Wallington section should be withdrawn and replaced by another route such as the 403. I suggested previously that the 410 should be rerouted via Lansdowne Road rather than Cherry Orchard Road, it would still serve the back of East Croydon station and would improve journey times and would avoid the route being rammed with route 197 passengers. I don't know what else can be done, larger buses are out of the question and increasing the frequency will inevitably mean more buses meeting on narrow sections. I would think most people going from West Croydon to Crystal Palace would take the train which takes about 10 minutes? The 410 doesn't get rammed full of 197 passengers, it gets rammed full of its own passengers requiring Davidson Road & beyond - a 197 passenger would wait for a 312 instead. Running via Lansdowne Road towards Crystal Palace means the 410 misses serving East Croydon & interchanging between other routes like the 119 & 466 - the 410's journey times aren't the issue here. Anyone going from Palace to Croydon would take the 157 rather than the 410 but its there to cater for the demand from the back roads between Palace & Norwood Junction. There are plenty of people who will get a 197 or 410, whatever comes first. Rerouting it via Lansdowne Road means it will serve the back entrance to East Croydon.
|
|
|
Post by JaysBusPhotos on Jan 4, 2019 0:42:28 GMT
This consultation gets a mention in the minutes of the October meeting of Croydon Council's Public Transport Liaison Group. democracy.croydon.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=3430The reference to the 410 is interesting - seems like this route is still facing capacity issues and TfL is not quite sure how to tackle it. The 410 has been facing capacity issues since the days of the DWS's running along the route and yet TfL reduced it's frequency last year which to me is baffling. The interesting thing is that a few ENL's last year actually went out on the route as our resident Route 410 member JaysBusPhotos noted and I believe at least one even successfully negotiated the two tight double runs off Davidson Road which are generally used by passengers. Davidson Road itself isn't an issue as temporary school route 604 ran along there when Stanley Tech had to temporarily relocate whilst the school in Norwood Junction was demolished and rebuilt as Harris Academy - the 604 started off with L's and then gained DLA's. ENL's have successfully done the two loops on Davidson Road a lot of times since I last reported it, guess it depends on the driver's confidence and experience with the route and ENL's. As for capacity issues it is still bad at peak times, here are some of my observations over the last year, ---7am & 9am: I've seen loads of 410's skip Christe Drive's bus stop sometimes two or three in a row due to them being full and at its worse at this time from what I've seen. ---10am & 2pm: it tends to only have a few people on board but you could get the odd one that has standing passengers. ---2:30pm & 4pm: your lucky to sit down and very often has people over the yellow line at the cab ---5pm to 7pm: Tends to be ok not to bad but can get pretty full if it arrives at West Croydon just before a 157 does when heading to Crystal Palace.
|
|
|
Post by JaysBusPhotos on Jan 4, 2019 0:57:21 GMT
And cutting out the two double runs? I can't see that helping the capacity issues at all they'll just get off at the next closest stop to the two loops. I think serving the back road at East Croydon is a good idea but I still don't see how the capacity issue will be solved by that. Davidson Rd is the where most people are going on the 410, Towpath Way being the busiest stop in that section so I don't see any one fix for the overcrowding issue.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 4, 2019 1:59:02 GMT
And cutting out the two double runs? I can't see that helping the capacity issues at all they'll just get off at the next closest stop to the two loops. I think serving the back road at East Croydon is a good idea but I still don't see how the capacity issue will be solved by that. Davidson Rd is the where most people are going on the 410, Towpath Way being the busiest stop in that section so I don't see any one fix for the overcrowding issue. Indeed, though I don't agree with serving the back road idea as the stops at both ends of Cherry Orchard Road see decent to busy periods for all routes
|
|