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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 4, 2019 8:58:51 GMT
The 410 has been facing capacity issues since the days of the DWS's running along the route and yet TfL reduced it's frequency last year which to me is baffling. The interesting thing is that a few ENL's last year actually went out on the route as our resident Route 410 member JaysBusPhotos noted and I believe at least one even successfully negotiated the two tight double runs off Davidson Road which are generally used by passengers. Davidson Road itself isn't an issue as temporary school route 604 ran along there when Stanley Tech had to temporarily relocate whilst the school in Norwood Junction was demolished and rebuilt as Harris Academy - the 604 started off with L's and then gained DLA's. ENL's have successfully done the two loops on Davidson Road a lot of times since I last reported it, guess it depends on the driver's confidence and experience with the route and ENL's. As for capacity issues it is still bad at peak times, here are some of my observations over the last year, ---7am & 9am: I've seen loads of 410's skip Christe Drive's bus stop sometimes two or three in a row due to them being full and at its worse at this time from what I've seen. ---10am & 2pm: it tends to only have a few people on board but you could get the odd one that has standing passengers. ---2:30pm & 4pm: your lucky to sit down and very often has people over the yellow line at the cab ---5pm to 7pm: Tends to be ok not to bad but can get pretty full if it arrives at West Croydon just before a 157 does when heading to Crystal Palace. At least for the next contract in 2022/24 (if it were to get a two year extension), the ENS’s on the route would need to be replaced anyway, so it may get longer buses at the next renewal
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Post by sid on Jan 4, 2019 9:41:24 GMT
And cutting out the two double runs? I can't see that helping the capacity issues at all they'll just get off at the next closest stop to the two loops. I think serving the back road at East Croydon is a good idea but I still don't see how the capacity issue will be solved by that. Davidson Rd is the where most people are going on the 410, Towpath Way being the busiest stop in that section so I don't see any one fix for the overcrowding issue. I don't see how the double runs can be removed if there is no safe place for stops on Davidson Road. Rerouting via Lansdowne Road will mean a quicker journey and it will stop passengers who could use the 197, where there is spare capacity, crowding the 410 at the East Croydon Cherry Orchard Road stop in the pm peak. The only solution I can see is some peak hour short workings between West Croydon and Norwood Junction.
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Post by JaysBusPhotos on Jan 11, 2019 9:59:52 GMT
And cutting out the two double runs? I can't see that helping the capacity issues at all they'll just get off at the next closest stop to the two loops. I think serving the back road at East Croydon is a good idea but I still don't see how the capacity issue will be solved by that. Davidson Rd is the where most people are going on the 410, Towpath Way being the busiest stop in that section so I don't see any one fix for the overcrowding issue. I don't see how the double runs can be removed if there is no safe place for stops on Davidson Road. Rerouting via Lansdowne Road will mean a quicker journey and it will stop passengers who could use the 197, where there is spare capacity, crowding the 410 at the East Croydon Cherry Orchard Road stop in the pm peak. The only solution I can see is some peak hour short workings between West Croydon and Norwood Junction. Extra buses between West Croydon & Norwood is the only suggestion I've seen that would work in my mind but I can't see TFL doing that, it's going to be interesting to see what they come up with for the 410 if anything.
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Post by redbus on Jan 11, 2019 15:09:02 GMT
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Post by sid on Jan 11, 2019 19:21:11 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Jan 11, 2019 20:49:56 GMT
I wouldn't think a Wednesday afternoon during a school work would be busy anyway - our least busy day at work is usually a Wednesday.
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Post by busaholic on Jan 11, 2019 21:55:35 GMT
What's missing is a nice tram line down the middle of it: failing that, a couple of 109s or 468s. Bromley will be rubbing their hands over Croydon's (largely) self-inflicted decline as a shopping centre.
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Post by sid on Jan 11, 2019 22:14:42 GMT
What's missing is a nice tram line down the middle of it: failing that, a couple of 109s or 468s. Bromley will be rubbing their hands over Croydon's (largely) self-inflicted decline as a shopping centre. I don't suppose Bromley is faring much better!
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Post by busaholic on Jan 11, 2019 22:20:58 GMT
What's missing is a nice tram line down the middle of it: failing that, a couple of 109s or 468s. Bromley will be rubbing their hands over Croydon's (largely) self-inflicted decline as a shopping centre. I don't suppose Bromley is faring much better! I think you might be wrong there. What they're not doing, of course, as far as I'm aware, is to redevelop a large part of their shopping centre. i go to Croydon more often than Bromley these days, but the latter strikes me as looking more prosperous/ less rundown.
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Post by sid on Jan 11, 2019 22:43:51 GMT
I don't suppose Bromley is faring much better! I think you might be wrong there. What they're not doing, of course, as far as I'm aware, is to redevelop a large part of their shopping centre. i go to Croydon more often than Bromley these days, but the latter strikes me as looking more prosperous/ less rundown. Bromley does look a bit more presentable than Croydon but the decline in town centres all over the country is largely down to the increase in online shopping which shows no sign of slowing down and inevitably means a decline in bus usage.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 12, 2019 0:18:44 GMT
I think you might be wrong there. What they're not doing, of course, as far as I'm aware, is to redevelop a large part of their shopping centre. i go to Croydon more often than Bromley these days, but the latter strikes me as looking more prosperous/ less rundown. Bromley does look a bit more presentable than Croydon but the decline in town centres all over the country is largely down to the increase in online shopping which shows no sign of slowing down and inevitably means a decline in bus usage. The decline hasn't hit every town centre - some have been faring far better than others such as Brixton where the only real big name we lost was Mothercare which TBH isn't a big miss anyway. Brixton is still as busy as ever and full of shoppers not to mention the recent addition of a massive Sports Direct on the site of the old Tesco/Kwik Save, Pop Up Brixton which is becoming famous for it's food and the market continuing to be a hub of activity. We even got a Premier Inn as well so certainly not all doom & gloom here.
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Post by redbus on Jan 12, 2019 20:26:01 GMT
I think you might be wrong there. What they're not doing, of course, as far as I'm aware, is to redevelop a large part of their shopping centre. i go to Croydon more often than Bromley these days, but the latter strikes me as looking more prosperous/ less rundown. Bromley does look a bit more presentable than Croydon but the decline in town centres all over the country is largely down to the increase in online shopping which shows no sign of slowing down and inevitably means a decline in bus usage. I think you are right that online shopping has impacted bus usage, I think it is only a minor cause of the lost patronage on buses in London. Any loss of passengers due to online shopping is a particular concern because it affects leisure usage, out of the peaks. If you have similar peak and daytime frequencies you have an impending problem in that you still need buses for the peak, but buses during the day are more empty. Not a great place to be, so I think new solutions are needed!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 20:30:34 GMT
Just to put a little positive on the doom and gloom. I don't think everyone's suddenly deserted the high street overnight I went to Romford today it was like a ghost town - I think its a lot to do with the time of year! no one has been paid yet and the credit card bills are starting to land.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 8, 2019 15:12:23 GMT
At the Assembly Plenary meeting there was a section in which Assembly members can propose petitions to be sent to TfL. Caroline Pidgeon presented a petition of over 1,200 signatures opposing the removal of cross Croydon bus links and the loss of service to the main shopping area and West Croydon Stn (from the south) and Catherine St (from the north). TfL won't take any notice of course but at least there is some public opposition to the proposals.
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Post by danorak on Feb 8, 2019 17:03:05 GMT
At the Assembly Plenary meeting there was a section in which Assembly members can propose petitions to be sent to TfL. Caroline Pidgeon presented a petition of over 1,200 signatures opposing the removal of cross Croydon bus links and the loss of service to the main shopping area and West Croydon Stn (from the south) and Catherine St (from the north). TfL won't take any notice of course but at least there is some public opposition to the proposals. I was pondering these 'town centre' cuts that seem to be coming and thinking about how I shop. I doubt I'm alone in this but I don't get on the bus at the same place I get off. Croydon's not a great personal example as I seldom go there now but taking Bexleyheath as an instance, I alight at Asda and then work my way along the Broadway to Sainsburys, getting a bus home from the Clock Tower. So there's always likely to be an imbalance in loadings in one direction. I suspect you see this in Croydon - people get off at the 'boundary', say West Croydon, and then head south returning from there (and vice versa). These types of changes are going to make life a lot less convenient, 'hopper' or not.
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