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Post by snoggle on Jan 30, 2019 23:59:29 GMT
What is TfL's response to this? What will they doing about the 6, 9 and 87? Not to mention the 172 which has been proposed to terminate at Aldwych. I wouldn't be surprised if it's cut back even further to Waterloo (The Old Vic) or even Elephant & Castle with the 171. The 172 could take over the RV1's stand at Catherine Street. Even in the future scheme there is a right hand turn out of Catherine St allowing vehicles to reach Waterloo Bridge.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 31, 2019 1:15:34 GMT
I’m still wondering how they going to squeeze in the 45, 100 & 171 at Elephant when only the 388 is moving out. They won't need to squeeze in the 100 as that's only going to make it to St Paul's. But your point still stands for the other two routes however. Whoops, some reason I thought it was replacing the 388's Elephant extension - thanks for the correction enviroPB Gaunt Street had bus stands before the development started so these are merely ones being put back in rather than extra ones - the 196, 415 & P5 generally used to use these stands. The 333 was shoved out to Borough Road at some point. The 45 could replace the 388 in terms of stand space but the 171 would be trickier before even considering any turned vehicles too.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 31, 2019 2:16:27 GMT
If the 172 is cut back any further it'll disappear up its own exhaust pipe, I thought it was going to use the current RV1 stand? Holborn would be a short but useful extension for the 87 if there's stand space, presumably the 19 will take the current 171 stand? Overall I like the idea though, should make for a far more pleasant environment. Unless you're now part of the traffic jam which will no doubt stretch around Aldwych Indeed, it's another ill thought out plan and another needless attack on one way systems that actually work. The crescent section of Aldwych will have increased journey times because of it going two way especially at the Kingsway junction as there will be more traffic movements and it will also become more dangerous to cross as we know a number of people are incapable of looking in both directions - one way systems have a useful advantage of simplifying crossing the road as you only need to look one way. It's also an attack on buses as not only will they be slowed through Aldwych but there doesn't look like enough space to terminate routes there and many routes do turn there as well like the 59 & 68 for example. All this money spent on needless junction improvements could of better spent elsewhere significantly tackling congestion in turn freeing up road space and reducing pollution together in one go - backwards thinking as ever in this country!
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Post by T.R. on Jan 31, 2019 5:44:58 GMT
Looks good so far. Although I thought there was a two-way conversation involved? If the 172 is cut back any further it'll disappear up its own exhaust pipe, I thought it was going to use the current RV1 stand? Holborn would be a short but useful extension for the 87 if there's stand space, presumably the 19 will take the current 171 stand? Overall I like the idea though, should make for a far more pleasant environment. 87 could share the 98's stand, but then there's the impending Holborn Station upgrade...
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 31, 2019 8:42:52 GMT
I can see TFL wanting a route or 2 less running through the area. Maybe the 68 could be lost or maybe the long ago proposal to cut the 188 bcak to Elephant.
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Post by sid on Jan 31, 2019 9:10:07 GMT
I can see TFL wanting a route or 2 less running through the area. Maybe the 68 could be lost or maybe the long ago proposal to cut the 188 bcak to Elephant. I think that could happen regardless of any changes at Aldwych although the 68 should be safe with the 171 being curtailed at E&C.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 31, 2019 9:46:47 GMT
Euston road is loosing 2 routes with the 59 and 476 so I don't think TFL will stay at just one route if they feel they can get away with it.
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Post by danorak on Feb 1, 2019 17:04:16 GMT
Unless you're now part of the traffic jam which will no doubt stretch around Aldwych I seem to recall similar doom and gloom predictions when the north side of Trafalgar Square was pedestrianised. Have you tried getting a bus westbound along the Strand lately? Whitehall northbound has also been badly affected. I used to use the bus from Aldwych to Charing Cross - I can walk it faster now. I was going to say it's made the north side of Trafalgar Square better but on reflection, I'd rather take my chances with heavy traffic than the parade of mime artists and chiselling sketchers.
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Post by redbus on Feb 1, 2019 17:11:54 GMT
I suspect TfL have known about the Aldywch proposals for ages, and the re-routing of the 13 and 23 were probably all part of the grand scheme to take routes away.
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Post by sid on Feb 1, 2019 19:19:22 GMT
I seem to recall similar doom and gloom predictions when the north side of Trafalgar Square was pedestrianised. Have you tried getting a bus westbound along the Strand lately? Whitehall northbound has also been badly affected. I used to use the bus from Aldwych to Charing Cross - I can walk it faster now. I was going to say it's made the north side of Trafalgar Square better but on reflection, I'd rather take my chances with heavy traffic than the parade of mime artists and chiselling sketchers. Personally I think the north side of Trafalgar Square is much better now and I've no doubt Aldwych will be, people moan about these things but if the traffic is that bad they'll find another way, more roadspace just means more traffic and London's appalling air quality has to be a top priority.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 1, 2019 19:21:02 GMT
Have you tried getting a bus westbound along the Strand lately? Whitehall northbound has also been badly affected. I used to use the bus from Aldwych to Charing Cross - I can walk it faster now. I was going to say it's made the north side of Trafalgar Square better but on reflection, I'd rather take my chances with heavy traffic than the parade of mime artists and chiselling sketchers. Personally I think the north side of Trafalgar Square is much better now and I've no doubt Aldwych will be, people moan about these things but if the traffic is that bad they'll find another way, more roadspace just means more traffic and London's appalling air quality has to be a top priority. Less Roadspace also means more traffic however. Not to mention buses and cars trundling along in first or second gear burn a lot more fuel as well, including the time they'll be sat idle in traffic.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 1, 2019 19:23:01 GMT
Have you tried getting a bus westbound along the Strand lately? Whitehall northbound has also been badly affected. I used to use the bus from Aldwych to Charing Cross - I can walk it faster now. I was going to say it's made the north side of Trafalgar Square better but on reflection, I'd rather take my chances with heavy traffic than the parade of mime artists and chiselling sketchers. Personally I think the north side of Trafalgar Square is much better now and I've no doubt Aldwych will be, people moan about these things but if the traffic is that bad they'll find another way, more roadspace just means more traffic and London's appalling air quality has to be a top priority. You could counter that by saying reducing road space, slows traffic leading to a worse quality of air ... Which in reality what happens
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Post by busaholic on Feb 1, 2019 22:12:22 GMT
I'd say Ken Livingstone's Trafalgar Square 'transformation' was the first of the (mostly) ridiculous traffic schemes in central London which continue to blight the lives of many Londoners and others, in particular bus passengers. This needless Aldwych mess-up adds insult to injury, both ends of the Strand now being subjected to this treatment. Get rid of the b*oody vans instead!
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Post by vjaska on Feb 2, 2019 2:33:12 GMT
Have you tried getting a bus westbound along the Strand lately? Whitehall northbound has also been badly affected. I used to use the bus from Aldwych to Charing Cross - I can walk it faster now. I was going to say it's made the north side of Trafalgar Square better but on reflection, I'd rather take my chances with heavy traffic than the parade of mime artists and chiselling sketchers. Personally I think the north side of Trafalgar Square is much better now and I've no doubt Aldwych will be, people moan about these things but if the traffic is that bad they'll find another way, more roadspace just means more traffic and London's appalling air quality has to be a top priority. By tackling the rising numbers of cars, private hire vehicles & delivery vehicles, you would reduce both congestion and pollution together instead of wasting money needlessly removing a perfectly viable one way system. The remodeled junction at Kingsway alone is going to slow buses down which will only add to the decline in ridership.
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Post by cl54 on Feb 2, 2019 4:19:46 GMT
It should be remembered that from April the ULEZ will mean older cars and vans will have to pay a significant extra pollution.charge inside the congestion zone.
At the same time minicabs will lose their exemption from the congestion charge.
This is bound to reduce the volume of traffic.
The road closures needed for the Holborn station upgrade will reduce the road space in the area and rule out additional stands there.
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