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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 18:33:09 GMT
I have been hearing today about a TfL plan to make LTs/NBfL front entry only, with alighting at middle and rear. Routes would be converted one at a time with buses losing the oyster readers by the middle and rear doors overnight. How that will work on 24hr or LT-allocated night routes I don't know. Presumably some kind of warning sticker would need to be shown to alert passengers, not that many would take notice.
I believe the 267 is the first to be "converted".
Realistically this is what should have happened from the offset but I struggle to see how this will be policed. Drivers cannot open doors individually so people will still attempt to board through those doors and it will be up to the driver to chase the people down to validate their oyster at the front.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 18:36:49 GMT
I have been hearing today about a TfL plan to make LTs/NBfL front entry only, with alighting at middle and rear. Routes would be converted one at a time with buses losing the oyster readers by the middle and rear doors overnight. How that will work on 24hr or LT-allocated night routes I don't know. Presumably some kind of warning sticker would need to be shown to alert passengers, not that many would take notice. I believe the 267 is the first to be "converted". Realistically this is what should have happened from the offset but I struggle to see how this will be policed. Drivers cannot open doors individually so people will still attempt to board through those doors and it will be up to the driver to chase the people down to validate their oyster at the front. I'm not sure if there could be a way to reprogram the close door buttons to both open and close the doors (like on the later B9s)?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 18:44:29 GMT
Is it April 1st already.
Joking aside this will be impossible to police. Passengers have got so used to boarding this way. It means the EL routes in Barking will be a nightmare to use again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 18:47:00 GMT
Is it April 1st already. Joking aside this will be impossible to police. Passengers have got so used to boarding this way. It means the EL routes in Barking will be a nightmare to use again. Exactly what I said but apparently true. Not sure when however.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 1, 2019 18:58:32 GMT
Is it April 1st already. Joking aside this will be impossible to police. Passengers have got so used to boarding this way. It means the EL routes in Barking will be a nightmare to use again. This was the only good thing about those buses on the ELT, and on any route for that matter. I look forward to the massive crowds that are going to heat up now at the front doors of some routes. You're also going to need to get back to the issue of telling people to move down the bus now as I imagine everyone will just stick between the front and middle doors.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 1, 2019 18:58:37 GMT
About the only thing I like on the LT is the ability to board and alight a crowded bus via the rear door and use the top deck without having to fight through a mass of standing passengers.
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Post by dennistas on Feb 1, 2019 19:01:47 GMT
What a stupid idea! No doubt will cause more mouth from customers to us drivers. I sometimes have customers on a normal bus jumping in the back doors, let alone on a Boris bus!
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Post by sid on Feb 1, 2019 19:25:55 GMT
I have been hearing today about a TfL plan to make LTs/NBfL front entry only, with alighting at middle and rear. Routes would be converted one at a time with buses losing the oyster readers by the middle and rear doors overnight. How that will work on 24hr or LT-allocated night routes I don't know. Presumably some kind of warning sticker would need to be shown to alert passengers, not that many would take notice. I believe the 267 is the first to be "converted". Realistically this is what should have happened from the offset but I struggle to see how this will be policed. Drivers cannot open doors individually so people will still attempt to board through those doors and it will be up to the driver to chase the people down to validate their oyster at the front. Have TfL only just woken up to the levels of fare evasion? The 267 should have been converted from the outset, many users were clearly not familiar with LT's and boarded at the front anyway, now of course they're in the habit of boarding through all three doors. It can be done, it was in Berlin and prominent no entry signs on the rear and centre doors helped but if LT's are gradually moved out of central London into the suburbs that's the obvious time to do it.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 1, 2019 19:37:29 GMT
I have been hearing today about a TfL plan to make LTs/NBfL front entry only, with alighting at middle and rear. Routes would be converted one at a time with buses losing the oyster readers by the middle and rear doors overnight. How that will work on 24hr or LT-allocated night routes I don't know. Presumably some kind of warning sticker would need to be shown to alert passengers, not that many would take notice. I believe the 267 is the first to be "converted". Realistically this is what should have happened from the offset but I struggle to see how this will be policed. Drivers cannot open doors individually so people will still attempt to board through those doors and it will be up to the driver to chase the people down to validate their oyster at the front. Have TfL only just woken up to the levels of fare evasion? The 267 should have been converted from the outset, many users were clearly not familiar with LT's and boarded at the front anyway, now of course they're in the habit of boarding through all three doors. It can be done, it was in Berlin and prominent no entry signs on the rear and centre doors helped but if LT's are gradually moved out of central London into the suburbs that's the obvious time to do it. I don't think cascading them to the suburbs could be a good time to do it either. Their open boarding is present as far as Becontree Heath out East, Fulwell out West and Crystal Palace down South. The only place you could probably send them is far North-East (e.g Debden, Fairlop etc) but even then I doubt the people there are completely oblivious to LTs either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 20:38:40 GMT
I have been hearing today about a TfL plan to make LTs/NBfL front entry only, with alighting at middle and rear. Routes would be converted one at a time with buses losing the oyster readers by the middle and rear doors overnight. How that will work on 24hr or LT-allocated night routes I don't know. Presumably some kind of warning sticker would need to be shown to alert passengers, not that many would take notice. I believe the 267 is the first to be "converted". Realistically this is what should have happened from the offset but I struggle to see how this will be policed. Drivers cannot open doors individually so people will still attempt to board through those doors and it will be up to the driver to chase the people down to validate their oyster at the front. Have TfL only just woken up to the levels of fare evasion? The 267 should have been converted from the outset, many users were clearly not familiar with LT's and boarded at the front anyway, now of course they're in the habit of boarding through all three doors. It can be done, it was in Berlin and prominent no entry signs on the rear and centre doors helped but if LT's are gradually moved out of central London into the suburbs that's the obvious time to do it. Guess this shows just how desperate the situation is at TfL that they need to ensure all revenue is being collected.
The more I think about this the more bonkers it sounds. Imagine a sudden surge of tourists boarding at a busy stop then realising they need to touch in so all surge towards the driver clashing with passengers that had board at the front. We have had 3 door boarding since 2002 (With a few years gap between bendies going and LTs arriving) and this will be a big change in central London.
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Post by rj131 on Feb 1, 2019 21:04:36 GMT
Have TfL only just woken up to the levels of fare evasion? The 267 should have been converted from the outset, many users were clearly not familiar with LT's and boarded at the front anyway, now of course they're in the habit of boarding through all three doors. It can be done, it was in Berlin and prominent no entry signs on the rear and centre doors helped but if LT's are gradually moved out of central London into the suburbs that's the obvious time to do it. Guess this shows just how desperate the situation is at TfL that they need to ensure all revenue is being collected.
The more I think about this the more bonkers it sounds. Imagine a sudden surge of tourists boarding at a busy stop then realising they need to touch in so all surge towards the driver clashing with passengers that had board at the front. We have had 3 door boarding since 2002 (With a few years gap between bendies going and LTs arriving) and this will be a big change in central London.
This highlights the huge flaws these LTs have. Unbelievable amounts of fare evasion and I’m sorry but whoever designed the open button to open all three doors without being able to control which ones is an absolute idiot. Even at times like night routes with maybe only one person boarding at a stop, opening all three doors is completely unnecessary. The only way this can be policed is if no one needs to get off the bus, then only the front door needs to open (assuming they fix the door open buttons) so that then forces everyone to get on at the front to pass the driver and tap the reader. If someone needs to get off and they get off at the back it’ll be difficult for the driver to notice a fare dodger quickly jump on. Honestly these buses are such a ridiculous design (obviously an advantage for crowd control but that’s a small price to pay if it means stopping fare evasion) and that’s why I hate these things so much. No one outside London will want buses with that design, they probably won’t even be able to get 3p for them when they sell them on!! (sarcasm)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 1, 2019 21:06:39 GMT
Guess this shows just how desperate the situation is at TfL that they need to ensure all revenue is being collected.
The more I think about this the more bonkers it sounds. Imagine a sudden surge of tourists boarding at a busy stop then realising they need to touch in so all surge towards the driver clashing with passengers that had board at the front. We have had 3 door boarding since 2002 (With a few years gap between bendies going and LTs arriving) and this will be a big change in central London.
This highlights the huge flaws these LTs have. Unbelievable amounts of fare evasion and I’m sorry but whoever designed the open button to open all three doors without being able to control which ones is an absolute idiot. Even at times like night routes with maybe only one person boarding at a stop, opening all three doors is completely unnecessary. The only way this can be policed is if no one needs to get off the bus, then only the front door needs to open (assuming they fix the door open buttons) so that forces everyone to get on at the front to pass the driver and tap the reader. If someone needs to get off and they get off at the back it’ll be difficult for the driver to notice a fare dodger quickly jump on. Honestly these buses are such a ridiculous design (obviously an advantage for crowd control but that’s a small price to pay if it means stopping fare evasion) and that’s why I hate these things so much. No one outside London will want buses with that design, they probably won’t even be able to get 3p for them when they sell them on!! (sarcasm) I wouldn't go as far as to call this person a complete idiot, the buses were designed for open boarding and people will inevitably have the right to choose what door they use. If the driver can choose the door then it'll lead to an eventual argument saying "Why didn't you open the door I was standing by".
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Post by rj131 on Feb 1, 2019 21:11:26 GMT
This highlights the huge flaws these LTs have. Unbelievable amounts of fare evasion and I’m sorry but whoever designed the open button to open all three doors without being able to control which ones is an absolute idiot. Even at times like night routes with maybe only one person boarding at a stop, opening all three doors is completely unnecessary. The only way this can be policed is if no one needs to get off the bus, then only the front door needs to open (assuming they fix the door open buttons) so that forces everyone to get on at the front to pass the driver and tap the reader. If someone needs to get off and they get off at the back it’ll be difficult for the driver to notice a fare dodger quickly jump on. Honestly these buses are such a ridiculous design (obviously an advantage for crowd control but that’s a small price to pay if it means stopping fare evasion) and that’s why I hate these things so much. No one outside London will want buses with that design, they probably won’t even be able to get 3p for them when they sell them on!! (sarcasm) I wouldn't go as far as to call this person a complete idiot, the buses were designed for open boarding and people will inevitably have the right to choose what door they use. If the driver can choose the door then it'll lead to an eventual argument saying "Why didn't you open the door I was standing by". Well I don’t think it’d be too difficult to add 4 open buttons: one for the front, one for the middle, one for the back and one for all 3. So that way if you’ve got a hugely busy stop like maybe E&C Station and about 20/30 people get off you can just press the main button and they’ll all open to avoid that sort of thing happening. I do think it’s quite idiotic to not have proper control over the sorts tbh, I think it’s one of the biggest flaws, among many many others
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Post by snoggle on Feb 1, 2019 21:13:40 GMT
I have been hearing today about a TfL plan to make LTs/NBfL front entry only, with alighting at middle and rear. Routes would be converted one at a time with buses losing the oyster readers by the middle and rear doors overnight. How that will work on 24hr or LT-allocated night routes I don't know. Presumably some kind of warning sticker would need to be shown to alert passengers, not that many would take notice. I believe the 267 is the first to be "converted". Realistically this is what should have happened from the offset but I struggle to see how this will be policed. Drivers cannot open doors individually so people will still attempt to board through those doors and it will be up to the driver to chase the people down to validate their oyster at the front. Excuse me but gasps for breath Oh my aching sides. As Dan says this shows the scale of financial desperation that TfL are in. Can't wait to see what happens when stop dwell times go up and operators find that busy routes are no longer running to schedule and go back to TfL demanding more vehicles are deployed. Guess what the TfL answer will be - ooh we'll just reduce the frequency then. What a plan. What genius. Another example of those "bright young things" who know nowt about buses doing their stuff.
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Post by sid on Feb 1, 2019 21:56:28 GMT
Seems once again TfL can't win whatever they do, they endeavour to put a stop to fare evasion and they're lambasted for it. I doubt it'll make that much difference to running times, as we obviously know two doored buses regularly appear on some LT routes and seem to have no particular difficulty keeping to time. The LT door controls were designed that way for a reason, whether they can be altered I don't know.
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