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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 19:29:02 GMT
" Delivery of new buses from Alexander Dennis is about to be suspended after the ADL factories were closed down due to ‘the virus’. Initially this affects the outstanding BYD/ADL E400EVs (Ee class) and E200EVs (SEe class) for Go-Ahead and the E40D smart hybrids for Stagecoach. Some of each are already ready for delivery but some will be held back at the factories. " LOTS online Assuming that the vehicles already registered on LVF are those that can enter service as expected, the Ees for the 106 should be available. The 230 can probably use the 357's batch of Ees, plus a few spare Ees (due to routes operating a reduced timetable), and there's always the 191's ENs if needed. Not sure which SEes are referred to here, as all of the 444's batch are registered, so should at least be ready for delivery if not at NP yet. At Stagecoach, the 25's MMC batch should be available, with the 25 transferring sooner than the 425. It may be possible to compile a temporary allocation for the 425 from around the fleet, due to the reduced service, though if needed, Stagecoah could perhaps loan some vehicles from Tower Transit (could hire 11/13reg DNs due to type familiarity, with the 69 using some VNs in the interim). As for the K1, RATP may need to loan the K1s current allocation of buses temporarily, there should be the 2 14reg SDE's that are spare but I think they may have gone for the 404 allocation. For Abellio, they'll be massively affected by this. Go-Ahead and RATP may have to loan their buses for routes 270 and 285. I think the HTs for the 202 and 405 will be just fine. I think the 173 and 174s new electrics may be fine.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 28, 2020 20:58:22 GMT
Assuming that the vehicles already registered on LVF are those that can enter service as expected, the Ees for the 106 should be available. The 230 can probably use the 357's batch of Ees, plus a few spare Ees (due to routes operating a reduced timetable), and there's always the 191's ENs if needed. Not sure which SEes are referred to here, as all of the 444's batch are registered, so should at least be ready for delivery if not at NP yet. At Stagecoach, the 25's MMC batch should be available, with the 25 transferring sooner than the 425. It may be possible to compile a temporary allocation for the 425 from around the fleet, due to the reduced service, though if needed, Stagecoah could perhaps loan some vehicles from Tower Transit (could hire 11/13reg DNs due to type familiarity, with the 69 using some VNs in the interim). As for the K1, RATP may need to loan the K1s current allocation of buses temporarily, there should be the 2 14reg SDE's that are spare but I think they may have gone for the 404 allocation. For Abellio, they'll be massively affected by this. Go-Ahead and RATP may have to loan their buses for routes 270 and 285. I think the HTs for the 202 and 405 will be just fine. I think the 173 and 174s new electrics may be fine. AFAIK, the two 12 reg SDE's are the 404's allocation alongside the sole MMC it had and it's far too early to determine whether contracts further down the line will be fine for a number of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 15:10:56 GMT
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Post by YY13VKP on May 10, 2020 15:29:06 GMT
I wonder if any London operators have cancelled orders due to COVID-19? I shouldn't think any have as most upcoming route gains involve new buses.
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Post by SILENCED on May 10, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
I wonder if any London operators have cancelled orders due to COVID-19? I shouldn't think any have as most upcoming route gains involve new buses. Stagecoach has cancelled all of it's national order for this year other than the batch for Manchester which was being delivered
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Post by TB123 on May 10, 2020 15:44:15 GMT
I wonder if any London operators have cancelled orders due to COVID-19? I shouldn't think any have as most upcoming route gains involve new buses. Unless there's a major change of strategy at TfL there will continue to be new orders from London operators. The operators wouldn't be at liberty to change the specification of contracts awarded, eg using existing buses in lieu of new, without detailed negotiations. I don't see that happening in many cases either, for now anyway. I know at Go-Ahead for example, all "unnecessary" capex, new buses for regional subsidiaries etc, has been postponed or cancelled - London would come under "necessary" capex being a contractual environment - the only change there being that all new stock for the London business going forward for now will be leased rather than a mix to protect group cash flow.
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Post by YY13VKP on May 10, 2020 15:50:51 GMT
I wonder if any London operators have cancelled orders due to COVID-19? I shouldn't think any have as most upcoming route gains involve new buses. the only change there being that all new stock for the London business going forward for now will be leased rather than bought to protect group cash flow. This has always been the case at GAL, although I do wonder whether they purchase their buses outright from the leasing company if they continue for another 5 years.
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Post by TB123 on May 10, 2020 15:54:56 GMT
the only change there being that all new stock for the London business going forward for now will be leased rather than bought to protect group cash flow. This has always been the case at GAL, although I do wonder whether they purchase their buses outright from the leasing company if they continue for another 5 years. GoAhead do a mix of both buying and leasing normally for the London business. I think the managing director of GAL also publicly confirmed this in a interview once before, isn't just something I know through work. Going forward, just gonna be leasing. The regional subsidiaries will continue to buy their buses as at present.
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Post by YY13VKP on May 10, 2020 23:20:02 GMT
This has always been the case at GAL, although I do wonder whether they purchase their buses outright from the leasing company if they continue for another 5 years. GoAhead do a mix of both buying and leasing normally for the London business. I think the managing director of GAL also publicly confirmed this in a interview once before. Going forward, just gonna be leasing. The regional subsidiaries will continue to buy their buses as at present. Everything in the Go-Ahead London fleet is leased when new, apart from the ex Metrobus fleet which is one of the reasons why the MAN's and Scania's departed before their contracts expired.
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Post by TB123 on May 11, 2020 8:46:52 GMT
GoAhead do a mix of both buying and leasing normally for the London business. I think the managing director of GAL also publicly confirmed this in a interview once before. Going forward, just gonna be leasing. The regional subsidiaries will continue to buy their buses as at present. Everything in the Go-Ahead London fleet is leased when new, apart from the ex Metrobus fleet which is one of the reasons why the MAN's and Scania's departed before their contracts expired. As I explained above, it's a mix of purchase and lease for new buses. Some are bought outright and some through hire purchase and are often acquired on an outright basis at the end of the initial payment period, I think that's what you are referring to. But hey, I only work for the company, not sure what I'd know.
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Post by 725DYE on May 11, 2020 11:28:51 GMT
Everything in the Go-Ahead London fleet is leased when new, apart from the ex Metrobus fleet which is one of the reasons why the MAN's and Scania's departed before their contracts expired. As I explained above, it's a mix of purchase and lease for new buses. Some are bought outright and some through hire purchase and are often acquired on an outright basis at the end of the initial payment period, I think that's what you are referring to. But hey, I only work for the company, not sure what I'd know. Just out of curiosity, what position do you have within the company?
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Post by TB123 on May 11, 2020 11:31:42 GMT
As I explained above, it's a mix of purchase and lease for new buses. Some are bought outright and some through hire purchase and are often acquired on an outright basis at the end of the initial payment period, I think that's what you are referring to. But hey, I only work for the company, not sure what I'd know. Just out of curiosity, what position do you have within the company? I'll PM you.
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Post by 15002 on May 11, 2020 11:39:57 GMT
Just out of curiosity, what position do you have within the company? I'll PM you. Do you mind PMing as well? I’m curious too.
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Post by salmon on May 27, 2020 9:25:57 GMT
Are the Enviro400 “Smart Hybrids“ any different to the standard E400? IMO the Smart Hybrids should really replace the E400 in their lineup.
As far as I’m aware Mild Hybrid systems are only truly helpful with making engine stop starts smoother and easing the load on the engine by powering the electronics from the 48v battery rather than alternator. Which only saves a small amount of fuel anyway.
Doesn’t help the fact that they have basically disabled the ESS on the Smart Hybrids. It’s only active when the front doors are open rather than the handbrake activating it like it was when they were first introduced. The front doors aren’t usually open for that long anyway so in most cases where the engine is off for less than ~8s it’s not even worth shutting off the engine in the first place.
Would like to see the average fuel consumption & emissions on these compared to the normal E400 and E400H.
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Post by snowman on May 27, 2020 9:54:40 GMT
Are the Enviro400 “Smart Hybrids“ any different to the standard E400? IMO the Smart Hybrids should really replace the E400 in their lineup. As far as I’m aware Mild Hybrid systems are only truly helpful with making engine stop starts smoother and easing the load on the engine by powering the electronics from the 48v battery rather than alternator. Which only saves a small amount of fuel anyway. Doesn’t help the fact that they have basically disabled the ESS on the Smart Hybrids. It’s only active when the front doors are open rather than the handbrake activating it like it was when they were first introduced. The front doors aren’t usually open for that long anyway so in most cases where the engine is off for less than ~8s it’s not even worth shutting off the engine in the first place. Would like to see the average fuel consumption & emissions on these compared to the normal E400 and E400H. In simple terms the smart hybrids have extra bit of kit fitted. There is an alternator connected to gearbox that can be used to power auxiliaries (any electric component) and charge up extra batteries during braking (rather than just using the friction disc brakes, which convert momentum energy into wasted heat energy). The alternator is switched to act as a booster electric motor during acceleration. Therefore system is best suited to frequent braking, as some of the energy can be saved and then used to regain speed. But if it was fitted to an inter urban bus, making infrequent stops, savings would be small. Therefore it is an option as some Operators will save very little so won’t want to pay for it (and maintain it). From memory a full hybrid saves about 20%-33% on fuel, (depends on route) costs about £100k extra Smart hybrids save 1%-7% (depends on route), costs about £20k extra Start-stop saves 0-4% (depends on route), costs about 3k extra as need bigger batteries.
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