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Post by vjaska on Apr 22, 2019 8:46:02 GMT
Impractical. There are companies who can buy Arriva whole with no fiddling around with selling individual garages. Very much doubt Stagecoach will be involved at all. Well according to news, Stagecoach are interested and the only ones interested at the current time. When have newspapers been 100% correct?
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 22, 2019 9:27:24 GMT
Well according to news, Stagecoach are interested and the only ones interested at the current time. When have newspapers been 100% correct? We will have to see what happens, but when a number of papers, including ones in the industry make such reports, there might be some truth in it. If DB want to sell, and Stagecoach want to buy, it would make things straightforward. There's also the European ops as well as the Overground and other rail operations to be considered, so it's going to be an interesting time... Let's see if the new kit for the 34 and 192 still mention DB on their vinyls come November
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Post by vjaska on Apr 22, 2019 9:39:22 GMT
When have newspapers been 100% correct? We will have to see what happens, but when a number of papers, including ones in the industry make such reports, there might be some truth in it. If DB want to sell, and Stagecoach want to buy, it would make things straightforward. There's also the European ops as well as the Overground and other rail operations to be considered, so it's going to be an interesting time... Let's see if the new kit for the 34 and 192 still mention DB on their vinyls come November But it isn't straightforward at all - DB want to sell it as a whole because breaking it up diminishes value but Stagecoach can't buy it all due to competition regulations. There has also been attempts by other parties to put together bids to buy it as I've heard elsewhere.
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Post by dennistas on Apr 22, 2019 12:44:50 GMT
Stagecoach can't purchase Arriva outright as others have said due to competition reasons. A brand new company could indeed buy it and continue as Arriva as it saves the hassle of seperating garages.
Indeed it will be interesting to see what happens.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 22, 2019 17:12:37 GMT
Stagecoach would be in the same position in the bus industry as Tesco were in the grocery industry a few years ago if such a sale was able to go ahead, albeit with a few restrictions. Tesco's comedown since then has been almost entirely self-inflicted, although some of it lies at the door of internet orders which also affect their competitors. The Monopolies people were ineffective against Tesco just as they've been almost useless against Stagecoach, and other large operators, in both bus and train operations in this country. Even so, I can't see that Stagecoach would be allowed to control virtually all the major bus traffic south of the Thames from Thanet right out to Wiltshire and Dorset, excepting Go-Ahead in the Brighton and Swindon areas and Reading Buses in Berkshire. It'd be a vast 'monopoly' which couldn't be solved by the enforced sale of operations in one small area, as occurred in Preston. Sainsbury/Asda merger was expected to be given the nod after a suitable number of stores were divested, but the Competitions people raised objections at every level, such that the deal is as good as dead. I think there's a good chance that Stagecoach will not be allowed to buy Arriva wholesale. Public transport is somewhat different to groceries though. Granted, Stagecoach would turn massive swathes of the bus network white and blue - because off the top of my head to the North of The Thames, Arriva operate in Southend, Harlow, Herts, Bucks, Suffolk, and that would link the empire to the North and East of London. The only bits not Arriva in Essex would be Thurrock, Basildon and Chelmsford, and the former Eastern National areas, now First. I would think, but can't be definate, that perhaps they could purchase Arriva and keep it at an arms length part of the group, and run it as an entirely separate entity. Would Go-Ahead Group, Abellio, or any of the other majors want it? Go-Ahead getting it would mean they'd control almost the majority of the London Bus network, so not sure they'd be allowed to purchase either. It's certainly going to be interesting watching where it goes, but my money is still on Stagecoach getting it in some capacity or another, be it as a whole, with bits sold off to other operators after sale, or as a whole and run as a totally separate entity, arms length, keeping the Arriva name and branding. I could picture Stagecoach buying Arriva Bus UK as a holding company, with a view to divesting the bits it doesn't want or as instructed by the CMA, then integrating the rest into Stagecoach UK bus. In practice, Stagecoach may have difficulty in finding bidders for the least profitable current Arriva bus ops. As National Express are in noticeably better shape than 10 years ago and have few UK bus operations, maybe they could buy Arriva? The only divestment that may be required would be of some overlapping services in Walsall & south Staffordshire.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 22, 2019 17:20:29 GMT
Don't mean to go on but all this Arriva sale case has given me a headache and I can't believe how some drivers spread things that don't even yet exist! Ok, we understand that they are selling up but the new buyers is not known yet. I personally see the garages being sold individually to other operators as if 1 operator buys the whole lot in London they will have too much power. Stagecoach would probably be interested in Dartford and maybe Barking garages then WH could be replaced as it costs too much for us. Impractical. There are companies who can buy Arriva whole with no fiddling around with selling individual garages. Very much doubt Stagecoach will be involved at all. National Express seem easily available. We shall have to see how interested they could be.
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Post by Pilot on Apr 22, 2019 17:34:42 GMT
Maybe Stagecoach should focus on having decent operation with what they currently got, buying Arriva out would just make both new and existing company worse off probably, considering they constantly failing to retain/lose routes. I just personally hope they don't get involved with Arriva, it's too much hassle.
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 23, 2019 15:48:36 GMT
Stagecoach would be in the same position in the bus industry as Tesco were in the grocery industry a few years ago if such a sale was able to go ahead, albeit with a few restrictions. Tesco's comedown since then has been almost entirely self-inflicted, although some of it lies at the door of internet orders which also affect their competitors. The Monopolies people were ineffective against Tesco just as they've been almost useless against Stagecoach, and other large operators, in both bus and train operations in this country. Even so, I can't see that Stagecoach would be allowed to control virtually all the major bus traffic south of the Thames from Thanet right out to Wiltshire and Dorset, excepting Go-Ahead in the Brighton, Crawley and Swindon areas and Reading Buses in Berkshire. It'd be a vast 'monopoly' which couldn't be solved by the enforced sale of operations in one small area, as occurred in Preston. Sainsbury/Asda merger was expected to be given the nod after a suitable number of stores were divested, but the Competitions people raised objections at every level, such that the deal is as good as dead. I think there's a good chance that Stagecoach will not be allowed to buy Arriva wholesale. My cousin worked for Asda as a distribution manager, and got bumped across into Argos (part of Sainsbury's group) and now looks after the van drivers there - on the same wage. So regardless of the Competitions watchdog moaning they are still pressing ahead with their plans, Asda is staying as a separate business in it's own right, the same deal with Sainsburys and Argos... with so many UK firms struggling in the face of Brexit uncertainty, and others failing in retail due to online shopping, I'm sure UK plc would like to see at least one success, so they may not be too worried about how "unfair" such a deal between Arriva and Stagecoach for instance, would be A motorist (many of us due to Government cutting travel quality and routes - especially in London) wouldn't care who is the biggest bus firm out there, and Joe Public just wants a bus to turn up, regardless of who's running it
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Post by nickfreckle on Apr 23, 2019 17:14:49 GMT
Maybe Stagecoach should focus on having decent operation with what they currently got, buying Arriva out would just make both new and existing company worse off probably, considering they constantly failing to retain/lose routes. I just personally hope they don't get involved with Arriva, it's too much hassle. Perhaps going against the grain, but Stagecoach, in the main do have a decent operation. There is a huge wide world out there outside of London, and they generally make a good fist of running the services. Of course, in London, they have failed to win and retain some routes, but that's not through them not being run properly - to the contrary, it's been ridiculous the amount of good performing routes they've lost in the past 12-24 months. 99, 51, 208, 227 - routes that are in the main always hitting performance targets, and shipped of to the lowest bidder. One thing about Stagecoach, is that they know how to run a commercial bus service. Commercial being the operative word, not this London tender rubbish, which ok, is sort of commercial, but only in name. Personally, I'd love Stagecoach to buy Arriva, quite simply because, my nearest Arriva garage in 7 minute drive away, and a bus direct to the garage goes past my house. Only reason I do not work there now, is because it isn't a London garage, and I'd have to start on the bottom rate. Should Stagecoach take it over, I can take my length of service with me - though I'd still take a pay cut. But, I'm currently in very poor health, not worked since January, and still don't know when I will be returning. I don't even know if I will be well enough to do London Bus driving ever again, not travelling 30 miles to TB every day anyway. So it will be a small comfort if I can work for the same company, and keep my pension here in the Medway Towns and take life that little bit easier.
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Post by sid on Apr 23, 2019 17:22:18 GMT
Maybe Stagecoach should focus on having decent operation with what they currently got, buying Arriva out would just make both new and existing company worse off probably, considering they constantly failing to retain/lose routes. I just personally hope they don't get involved with Arriva, it's too much hassle. Perhaps going against the grain, but Stagecoach, in the main do have a decent operation. There is a huge wide world out there outside of London, and they generally make a good fist of running the services. Of course, in London, they have failed to win and retain some routes, but that's not through them not being run properly - to the contrary, it's been ridiculous the amount of good performing routes they've lost in the past 12-24 months. 99, 51, 208, 227 - routes that are in the main always hitting performance targets, and shipped of to the lowest bidder. One thing about Stagecoach, is that they know how to run a commercial bus service. Commercial being the operative word, not this London tender rubbish, which ok, is sort of commercial, but only in name. Personally, I'd love Stagecoach to buy Arriva, quite simply because, my nearest Arriva garage in 7 minute drive away, and a bus direct to the garage goes past my house. Only reason I do not work there now, is because it isn't a London garage, and I'd have to start on the bottom rate. Should Stagecoach take it over, I can take my length of service with me - though I'd still take a pay cut. But, I'm currently in very poor health, not worked since January, and still don't know when I will be returning. I don't even know if I will be well enough to do London Bus driving ever again, not travelling 30 miles to TB every day anyway. So it will be a small comfort if I can work for the same company, and keep my pension here in the Medway Towns and take life that little bit easier. I agree I'd be delighted to see Stagecoach take over Arriva. Mentioning Gillingham the fleet there looked a bit down at the heel when I was there recently and I'm sure Stagecoach would smarten things up a bit. Anyway more importantly, good luck with the health problems.
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Post by nickfreckle on Apr 23, 2019 17:27:30 GMT
Perhaps going against the grain, but Stagecoach, in the main do have a decent operation. There is a huge wide world out there outside of London, and they generally make a good fist of running the services. Of course, in London, they have failed to win and retain some routes, but that's not through them not being run properly - to the contrary, it's been ridiculous the amount of good performing routes they've lost in the past 12-24 months. 99, 51, 208, 227 - routes that are in the main always hitting performance targets, and shipped of to the lowest bidder. One thing about Stagecoach, is that they know how to run a commercial bus service. Commercial being the operative word, not this London tender rubbish, which ok, is sort of commercial, but only in name. Personally, I'd love Stagecoach to buy Arriva, quite simply because, my nearest Arriva garage in 7 minute drive away, and a bus direct to the garage goes past my house. Only reason I do not work there now, is because it isn't a London garage, and I'd have to start on the bottom rate. Should Stagecoach take it over, I can take my length of service with me - though I'd still take a pay cut. But, I'm currently in very poor health, not worked since January, and still don't know when I will be returning. I don't even know if I will be well enough to do London Bus driving ever again, not travelling 30 miles to TB every day anyway. So it will be a small comfort if I can work for the same company, and keep my pension here in the Medway Towns and take life that little bit easier. I agree I'd be delighted to see Stagecoach take over Arriva. Mentioning Gillingham the fleet there looked a bit down at the heel when I was there recently and I'm sure Stagecoach would smarten things up a bit. Anyway more importantly, good luck with the health problems. Thanks Sid. Battling the Big C unfortunately. I don't think the fleet is too shabby - E200's and E200MMC, a few ALX400 Volvo, E400 & MMC, a few Wright single deckers - and Darts! Still got some midi-darts! Oh, and not forgetting the sole Wright G3.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2019 17:45:42 GMT
Perhaps going against the grain, but Stagecoach, in the main do have a decent operation. There is a huge wide world out there outside of London, and they generally make a good fist of running the services. Of course, in London, they have failed to win and retain some routes, but that's not through them not being run properly - to the contrary, it's been ridiculous the amount of good performing routes they've lost in the past 12-24 months. 99, 51, 208, 227 - routes that are in the main always hitting performance targets, and shipped of to the lowest bidder. One thing about Stagecoach, is that they know how to run a commercial bus service. Commercial being the operative word, not this London tender rubbish, which ok, is sort of commercial, but only in name. Personally, I'd love Stagecoach to buy Arriva, quite simply because, my nearest Arriva garage in 7 minute drive away, and a bus direct to the garage goes past my house. Only reason I do not work there now, is because it isn't a London garage, and I'd have to start on the bottom rate. Should Stagecoach take it over, I can take my length of service with me - though I'd still take a pay cut. But, I'm currently in very poor health, not worked since January, and still don't know when I will be returning. I don't even know if I will be well enough to do London Bus driving ever again, not travelling 30 miles to TB every day anyway. So it will be a small comfort if I can work for the same company, and keep my pension here in the Medway Towns and take life that little bit easier. I agree I'd be delighted to see Stagecoach take over Arriva. Mentioning Gillingham the fleet there looked a bit down at the heel when I was there recently and I'm sure Stagecoach would smarten things up a bit. Anyway more importantly, good luck with the health problems. Arriva have continually invested a lot of money into the Medway fleet since 2004 and from what I’ve seen, the fleet looks quite smart - just a shame about the new livery.
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Post by dennistas on Apr 23, 2019 19:04:21 GMT
Maybe Stagecoach should focus on having decent operation with what they currently got, buying Arriva out would just make both new and existing company worse off probably, considering they constantly failing to retain/lose routes. I just personally hope they don't get involved with Arriva, it's too much hassle. Perhaps going against the grain, but Stagecoach, in the main do have a decent operation. There is a huge wide world out there outside of London, and they generally make a good fist of running the services. Of course, in London, they have failed to win and retain some routes, but that's not through them not being run properly - to the contrary, it's been ridiculous the amount of good performing routes they've lost in the past 12-24 months. 99, 51, 208, 227 - routes that are in the main always hitting performance targets, and shipped of to the lowest bidder. One thing about Stagecoach, is that they know how to run a commercial bus service. Commercial being the operative word, not this London tender rubbish, which ok, is sort of commercial, but only in name. Personally, I'd love Stagecoach to buy Arriva, quite simply because, my nearest Arriva garage in 7 minute drive away, and a bus direct to the garage goes past my house. Only reason I do not work there now, is because it isn't a London garage, and I'd have to start on the bottom rate. Should Stagecoach take it over, I can take my length of service with me - though I'd still take a pay cut. But, I'm currently in very poor health, not worked since January, and still don't know when I will be returning. I don't even know if I will be well enough to do London Bus driving ever again, not travelling 30 miles to TB every day anyway. So it will be a small comfort if I can work for the same company, and keep my pension here in the Medway Towns and take life that little bit easier. First things first Nick I wish you well and hope you return to work as soon as your better ☺. I had a brief chat with a manager today about us buying Arriva and the manager basically said that nothing has been 100% finalised and that TFL wouldn't be in a position to worry about who has competition etc. He did mention that it would be easier for DB to sell Arriva as a whole and that it's not very likely that Stagecoach would want to whole business so make out what you can from that 😊
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Post by sid on Apr 23, 2019 19:09:41 GMT
I agree I'd be delighted to see Stagecoach take over Arriva. Mentioning Gillingham the fleet there looked a bit down at the heel when I was there recently and I'm sure Stagecoach would smarten things up a bit. Anyway more importantly, good luck with the health problems. Arriva have continually invested a lot of money into the Medway fleet since 2004 and from what I’ve seen, the fleet looks quite smart - just a shame about the new livery. There was a big investment in 2004 but not that much since and some of the fleet looks somewhat tired, particularly the Volvo B7RLE's still carrying MAX branding for routes 34/35 in Guildford.
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Post by nickfreckle on Apr 23, 2019 19:58:23 GMT
Perhaps going against the grain, but Stagecoach, in the main do have a decent operation. There is a huge wide world out there outside of London, and they generally make a good fist of running the services. Of course, in London, they have failed to win and retain some routes, but that's not through them not being run properly - to the contrary, it's been ridiculous the amount of good performing routes they've lost in the past 12-24 months. 99, 51, 208, 227 - routes that are in the main always hitting performance targets, and shipped of to the lowest bidder. One thing about Stagecoach, is that they know how to run a commercial bus service. Commercial being the operative word, not this London tender rubbish, which ok, is sort of commercial, but only in name. Personally, I'd love Stagecoach to buy Arriva, quite simply because, my nearest Arriva garage in 7 minute drive away, and a bus direct to the garage goes past my house. Only reason I do not work there now, is because it isn't a London garage, and I'd have to start on the bottom rate. Should Stagecoach take it over, I can take my length of service with me - though I'd still take a pay cut. But, I'm currently in very poor health, not worked since January, and still don't know when I will be returning. I don't even know if I will be well enough to do London Bus driving ever again, not travelling 30 miles to TB every day anyway. So it will be a small comfort if I can work for the same company, and keep my pension here in the Medway Towns and take life that little bit easier. First things first Nick I wish you well and hope you return to work as soon as your better ☺. I had a brief chat with a manager today about us buying Arriva and the manager basically said that nothing has been 100% finalised and that TFL wouldn't be in a position to worry about who has competition etc. He did mention that it would be easier for DB to sell Arriva as a whole and that it's not very likely that Stagecoach would want to whole business so make out what you can from that 😊 Oh, what I make of that is that the managers are as clueless as we are, and they'd have as much idea of what's going on as an enthusiast In other words, not a lot!
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