Night Buses

[londonboy71]

I'd like to open a thread 're Night Buses. There ade a lot of places in and around London used to be served by night buses in 90s that aren't now e.g. Staines Dagenham Dartford Gravesend etc. Msybe its time for a discussion

[6HP502C]

Jun 28, 2019 8:09:48 GMT londonboy71 said:

I'd like to open a thread 're Night Buses. There ade a lot of places in and around London used to be served by night buses in 90s that aren't now e.g. Staines Dagenham Dartford Gravesend etc. Msybe its time for a discussion

What is demand like for night services in these areas? Apart from Romford, night buses tend to be near empty by the time they reach the edge of London. Unless every bus between midnight and 3am is going to be N35 style packed, I imagine it will be hard for TfL and the local councils to justify the spend.


Dagenham is served by the 145 on weekends.

[vjaska]

Jun 28, 2019 8:09:48 GMT londonboy71 said:

I'd like to open a thread 're Night Buses. There ade a lot of places in and around London used to be served by night buses in 90s that aren't now e.g. Staines Dagenham Dartford Gravesend etc. Msybe its time for a discussion

A lot of the places on the outskirts of London either have a very localised night scene or no night scene and even then, the minicab network in these places are well established especially as people generally are more well off in these areas and would likely snub the bus. Romford is the major exception to the rule which is why it has successful night routes.

[ian]

Another factor is Uber and similar services. I think that has not only eaten away at the potential market at night but it is also changing the way a lot of people travel - e.g. if making a long journey, use public transport to get near-ish then complete the door-to-door journey with Uber.

Having said that, i do think some of the night services could do with further tweaks e.g. to reflect tube running/not running nights, and so on.

In my own case, if - as is proposed - the N113 gets hacked back from Trafalgar Sq to Marble Arch then that'd probably end me using it, as I just don't have time to change buses at night.

[southlondonbus]

I think it was proposed that the N113 would stay to Trafalgar Square as it went there when then the 113 previously went to Marble Arch. Even more since the N13 was discontinued it's needed.

[rif153]

Jun 29, 2019 8:15:55 GMT ian said:

Another factor is Uber and similar services. I think that has not only eaten away at the potential market at night but it is also changing the way a lot of people travel - e.g. if making a long journey, use public transport to get near-ish then complete the door-to-door journey with Uber.

Having said that, i do think some of the night services could do with further tweaks e.g. to reflect tube running/not running nights, and so on.

In my own case, if - as is proposed - the N113 gets hacked back from Trafalgar Sq to Marble Arch then that'd probably end me using it, as I just don't have time to change buses at night.

I do empathise with you, changing between infrequent bus services at night is hardly one's cup of tea. I was dreading the N207 being cutback to Marble Arch but thankfully it'll still serve the West End and run to Trafalgar Square at night instead.

Would having the N113 run via Marylebone Road and Portland Place to allow it to still serve Oxford Circus be too unpopular because Baker Street would be missed out?

[rif153]

Jun 29, 2019 20:03:54 GMT southlondonbus said:

I think it was proposed that the N113 would stay to Trafalgar Square as it went there when then the 113 previously went to Marble Arch. Even more since the N13 was discontinued it's needed.

I do recall that being proposed however what is your source. I can't find it in any TfL consultations relating to Oxford Street

[ian]

The Oxford Street consultation says 113 will be cut back to Marble Arch 24 hours a day. Conceivably tolerable in the day; more-or-less useless as a starting point at night.

[southlondonbus]

Well now Oxford Street isn't being fully predsritaised I would imagine the (N)94 and (N)113 will retain their current routings along with the N207. Baring in mind there would only be the 139, 390, N7 and N98 still running along the street, the N94/113/207 would hardly overcrowd the street at night.

[vjaska]

Jul 1, 2019 18:23:25 GMT southlondonbus said:

Well now Oxford Street isn't being fully predsritaised I would imagine the (N)94 and (N)113 will retain their current routings along with the N207. Baring in mind there would only be the 139, 390, N7 and N98 still running along the street, the N94/113/207 would hardly overcrowd the street at night.

I think the lack of a night route running south beyond Waterloo is a disgrace once these changes come in.

[enviroPB]

Jun 28, 2019 8:49:57 GMT 6HP502C said:

Jun 28, 2019 8:09:48 GMT londonboy71 said:

I'd like to open a thread 're Night Buses. There ade a lot of places in and around London used to be served by night buses in 90s that aren't now e.g. Staines Dagenham Dartford Gravesend etc. Msybe its time for a discussion

What is demand like for night services in these areas? Apart from Romford, night buses tend to be near empty by the time they reach the edge of London. Unless every bus between midnight and 3am is going to be N35 style packed, I imagine it will be hard for TfL and the local councils to justify the spend.


Dagenham is served by the 145 on weekends.

Dunno why Romford was the first place you thought of for bucking the trend, I'd have gone Kingston all day long! The sticks of Dagenham is notoriously linked with abject poverty, so the car is king argument doesn't wash round there. The fact that the 145N is the third busiest weekend 24-hour route says there's untapped demand. During the week, customers have no choice but to use the only night bus in Dagenham, the N15. To force passengers to walk from Wood Lane to Chequers Corner as an example is almost a 2 mile walk, absolutely tragic coverage of the night bus network on TfL's part there.

These have been banded around by many people on here, but a night bus in the form of 24 hour operation on the 174 will yield good patronage results. Tesco warehouse workers will definitely make sure of that. The 145N could still do weekends as there are viable alternative links for the route north of BK, but for sure Dagenham (south of Heathway station) needs a night route of some sort traversing there every night.

[Deleted]

I try and do a night bus trip every so often. Believe me it’s changed drastically since their hey day. They used to leave Trafalgar Square full. The night time economics has changed so much since then. Shoreditch and Liverpool Street areas used to be ghost towns at night apart from a few dodgy clubs. Now this area is probably the busiest.

Night tube has killed off lots of demand at weekends.

What remains constant though is the use of night buses by blue collar workers in the early hours into Central London, and in places like Heathrow.

With that in mind, I’d like to see a night service over the A10.

One other thing to consider is many day routes run much later and earlier than they ever used to. If anyone said to me thirty years ago the first 203 on a Sunday would be at 0433 ex Stanies I wouldn’t believe you. It never used to even run on Sunday’s.

Shows that areas outside Greater London in some areas do need quasi night buses , even if they don’t have N route numbers,

[southlondonbus]

Maybe a N159 could be introduced to Marble Arch or join it to the N94 to Acton Green.

[southlondonbus]

I always think the move from Central orientated N routes to local links has meant some areas are very generously served and others appear somewhat lacking. Ironically the Sutton area gained more local services (93/213) yet in the process Carshalton and Wallington lost their night services (bar now the 154 at weekends).

[rif153]

Jul 1, 2019 19:18:54 GMT southlondonbus said:

Maybe a N159 could be introduced to Marble Arch or join it to the N94 to Acton Green.

The 159 is already 24 hour running between Marble Arch and Streatham. However, I know many members of this forum are unhappy with the current N109/N159 situation.

Furthermore, frequncies must be considered before fusing two routes together. The 94 has 6bph between midnight and 1 am, in the same space of time the 159 has 5bph. Then for the next hour the 94 drops to 2bph whilst the 159 drops to 4bph. For the hour after that,the 94 remains at 2bph whilst the 159 drops to 3bph and so on.

The point I'm making is that the frequencies of the two routes don't match