|
Post by DT 11 on Jul 23, 2019 11:54:11 GMT
From doing the 469 I wouldn’t touch it suffers reliability issues. When run by Stagecoach the 469 was very reliable. What’s changed? I know that parking enforcement along Plumstead High Street causes some delays, but not sure if that fully accounts for it. I can’t imagine so because the timetable when it was taken over by DT was the exact same timetable as Stagecoach and was very tight especially down Plumstead High Street you would end up running 15 mins late to QEH because of 3-5 mins traffic at Plumstead High Street. Last year it got a revised timetable with a bit more time and a extra bus and still struggles at peak times because of QEH, Woolwich & Plumstead High Street. Overall it would run better as a 12 minute service. In addition the roadworks in Abbey Wood doesn’t help either
|
|
|
Post by busman on Jul 23, 2019 12:44:02 GMT
When run by Stagecoach the 469 was very reliable. What’s changed? I know that parking enforcement along Plumstead High Street causes some delays, but not sure if that fully accounts for it. I can’t imagine so because the timetable when it was taken over by DT was the exact same timetable as Stagecoach and was very tight especially down Plumstead High Street you would end up running 15 mins late to QEH because of 3-5 mins traffic at Plumstead High Street. Last year it got a revised timetable with a bit more time and a extra bus and still struggles at peak times because of QEH, Woolwich & Plumstead High Street. Overall it would run better as a 12 minute service. Reliability definitely suffered once the route switched operator. I say that as someone who consistently used the route 5-6 days a week for a few years either side of the switch. I wasn’t sure if it was a timetable change, fewer buses or traffic issues I was unaware of at the Belvedere/Erith end of the route which I rarely use. The one thing that I know has definitely got worse is the traffic through Plumstead. Illegally parked cars along the high street and outside the station cause tailbacks, but the council have very few traffic enforcement officers especially during the morning peak. I agree that a 12 minute service would work better. Buses can leave passengers behind during the peaks even when buses run bang on time at a 15 minute interval. Certainly the root causes of reliability issues should be sorted, but I find it hard to believe that it’s impossible to run a reliable bus service between Crayford and QEH across the 428 and 469.
|
|
|
Post by beaver14uk on Jul 23, 2019 14:46:52 GMT
Greenwich have actually increased the number of enforcement officiers and Plumstead highlighted as a location to target. The bus operators say it's improved. uote author=" busman" source="/post/514895/thread" timestamp="1563885842"] I can’t imagine so because the timetable when it was taken over by DT was the exact same timetable as Stagecoach and was very tight especially down Plumstead High Street you would end up running 15 mins late to QEH because of 3-5 mins traffic at Plumstead High Street. Last year it got a revised timetable with a bit more time and a extra bus and still struggles at peak times because of QEH, Woolwich & Plumstead High Street. Overall it would run better as a 12 minute service. Reliability definitely suffered once the route switched operator. I say that as someone who consistently used the route 5-6 days a week for a few years either side of the switch. I wasn’t sure if it was a timetable change, fewer buses or traffic issues I was unaware of at the Belvedere/Erith end of the route which I rarely use. The one thing that I know has definitely got worse is the traffic through Plumstead. Illegally parked cars along the high street and outside the station cause tailbacks, but the council have very few traffic enforcement officers especially during the morning peak. I agree that a 12 minute service would work better. Buses can leave passengers behind during the peaks even when buses run bang on time at a 15 minute interval. Certainly the root causes of reliability issues should be sorted, but I find it hard to believe that it’s impossible to run a reliable bus service between Crayford and QEH across the 428 and 469.[/quote]
|
|
|
Post by busman on Jul 23, 2019 15:37:00 GMT
beaver14uk there are still cars double parked outside Plumstead Station and inside the 24hr bus lane. Enforcement on the high street especially westbound is non existent between Plumstead Corner and Lakedale Road. There are only a handful of council employed wardens covering the whole borough. It took a petition from local bus drivers to force the council into action on the Plumstead Station situation. I believe the council recently voted to implement enforcement cameras for bus lanes and hatch junctions. However they need to employ more wardens to deal with illegal parking if they are serious about keeping traffic moving and getting passengers onto bikes and buses. Especially as they recently declared a climate emergency 😏
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 15:47:25 GMT
Greenwich have actually increased the number of enforcement officiers and Plumstead highlighted as a location to target. The bus operators say it's improved. uote author=" busman" source="/post/514895/thread" timestamp="1563885842"] I can’t imagine so because the timetable when it was taken over by DT was the exact same timetable as Stagecoach and was very tight especially down Plumstead High Street you would end up running 15 mins late to QEH because of 3-5 mins traffic at Plumstead High Street. Last year it got a revised timetable with a bit more time and a extra bus and still struggles at peak times because of QEH, Woolwich & Plumstead High Street. Overall it would run better as a 12 minute service. Reliability definitely suffered once the route switched operator. I say that as someone who consistently used the route 5-6 days a week for a few years either side of the switch. I wasn’t sure if it was a timetable change, fewer buses or traffic issues I was unaware of at the Belvedere/Erith end of the route which I rarely use. The one thing that I know has definitely got worse is the traffic through Plumstead. Illegally parked cars along the high street and outside the station cause tailbacks, but the council have very few traffic enforcement officers especially during the morning peak. I agree that a 12 minute service would work better. Buses can leave passengers behind during the peaks even when buses run bang on time at a 15 minute interval. Certainly the root causes of reliability issues should be sorted, but I find it hard to believe that it’s impossible to run a reliable bus service between Crayford and QEH across the 428 and 469. [/quote] Saw a parking warden the other day on Plumstead Road! First time I've ever seen one there. Wouldn't say it's improved but these things take time.
|
|
|
Post by beaver14uk on Jul 23, 2019 15:48:11 GMT
[ am sure they are I know the full history behind this and the petition. quote author=" busman" source="/post/514929/thread" timestamp="1563896220"] beaver14uk there are still cars double parked outside Plumstead Station and inside the 24hr bus lane. Enforcement on the high street especially westbound is non existent between Plumstead Corner and Lakedale Road. There are only a handful of council employed wardens covering the whole borough. It took a petition from local bus drivers to force the council into action on the Plumstead Station situation. I believe the council recently voted to implement enforcement cameras for bus lanes and hatch junctions. However they need to employ more wardens to deal with illegal parking if they are serious about keeping traffic moving and getting passengers onto bikes and buses. Especially as they recently declared a climate emergency 😏[/quote]
|
|
|
Post by beaver14uk on Jul 23, 2019 15:50:42 GMT
Well the view from the operators is its improved. But will take time. Greenwich have actually increased the number of enforcement officiers and Plumstead highlighted as a location to target. The bus operators say it's improved. uote author=" busman" source="/post/514895/thread" timestamp="1563885842"]Reliability definitely suffered once the route switched operator. I say that as someone who consistently used the route 5-6 days a week for a few years either side of the switch. I wasn’t sure if it was a timetable change, fewer buses or traffic issues I was unaware of at the Belvedere/Erith end of the route which I rarely use. The one thing that I know has definitely got worse is the traffic through Plumstead. Illegally parked cars along the high street and outside the station cause tailbacks, but the council have very few traffic enforcement officers especially during the morning peak. I agree that a 12 minute service would work better. Buses can leave passengers behind during the peaks even when buses run bang on time at a 15 minute interval. Certainly the root causes of reliability issues should be sorted, but I find it hard to believe that it’s impossible to run a reliable bus service between Crayford and QEH across the 428 and 469. Saw a parking warden the other day on Plumstead Road! First time I've ever seen one there. Wouldn't say it's improved but these things take time.[/quote]
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Jul 23, 2019 20:02:48 GMT
I can’t imagine so because the timetable when it was taken over by DT was the exact same timetable as Stagecoach and was very tight especially down Plumstead High Street you would end up running 15 mins late to QEH because of 3-5 mins traffic at Plumstead High Street. Last year it got a revised timetable with a bit more time and a extra bus and still struggles at peak times because of QEH, Woolwich & Plumstead High Street. Overall it would run better as a 12 minute service. Reliability definitely suffered once the route switched operator. I say that as someone who consistently used the route 5-6 days a week for a few years either side of the switch. I wasn’t sure if it was a timetable change, fewer buses or traffic issues I was unaware of at the Belvedere/Erith end of the route which I rarely use. The one thing that I know has definitely got worse is the traffic through Plumstead. Illegally parked cars along the high street and outside the station cause tailbacks, but the council have very few traffic enforcement officers especially during the morning peak. I agree that a 12 minute service would work better. Buses can leave passengers behind during the peaks even when buses run bang on time at a 15 minute interval. Certainly the root causes of reliability issues should be sorted, but I find it hard to believe that it’s impossible to run a reliable bus service between Crayford and QEH across the 428 and 469. Northend Road & Crayford. So I don’t find it hard to believe. I wouldn’t touch the 469 to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by N230UD on Jul 24, 2019 21:53:13 GMT
At Bluewater Bus Station there are TfL-produced leaflets about this consultation, including maps. First time i've seen leaflets for a TfL consultation. A TfL map on paper is very rare these days....
|
|
|
Post by marlon101 on Jul 25, 2019 10:38:26 GMT
As someone who has done the 428 & 492 many times. I do support these changes except I don’t agree with cutting the 428 to Crayford because its busier than the 492. The 492 pretty much carries fresh air between Sidcup & Crayford and can cope with Single Deckers. Before the 96 was re-routed to Darent Valley Hospital the 428 between Dartford & Bluewater was busy, now it is very empty all the time between Dartford & Bluewater. Overall I think the 492 should be cut to Crayford and converted to Single deck operation and the 428 to Dartford and diverted to serve Station Road, Chastillian Road, Princes Road & Shepherds Lane as there are many people who use the 428 from Erith to Dartford and the residents of Chastillian Road have been asking for a more frequent service. In addition the 96 should be 24 Hour as result of these changes. Completely agree with regards to the 428/492 suggestions here. Not entirely sold on a night service for the 96. It runs late/early enough as it is for most shift workers... The only shift workers I suspect who'd benefit are potentially those at QMH though the 96 last bus/first bus almost certainly caters sufficiently for these. I don't know what local demand there would be (that would see the night service earn its keep).
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Jul 25, 2019 11:10:19 GMT
As someone who has done the 428 & 492 many times. I do support these changes except I don’t agree with cutting the 428 to Crayford because its busier than the 492. The 492 pretty much carries fresh air between Sidcup & Crayford and can cope with Single Deckers. Before the 96 was re-routed to Darent Valley Hospital the 428 between Dartford & Bluewater was busy, now it is very empty all the time between Dartford & Bluewater. Overall I think the 492 should be cut to Crayford and converted to Single deck operation and the 428 to Dartford and diverted to serve Station Road, Chastillian Road, Princes Road & Shepherds Lane as there are many people who use the 428 from Erith to Dartford and the residents of Chastillian Road have been asking for a more frequent service. In addition the 96 should be 24 Hour as result of these changes. Completely agree with regards to the 428/492 suggestions here. Not entirely sold on a night service for the 96. It runs late/early enough as it is for most shift workers... The only shift workers I suspect who'd benefit are potentially those at QMH though the 96 last bus/first bus almost certainly caters sufficiently for these. I don't know what local demand there would be (that would see the night service earn its keep). I'd suggest QMH to Dartford for the N96, over the 96 between Woolwich and Dartford.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on Jul 31, 2019 13:25:26 GMT
I'll submit a response as I'm a local resident. So my thoughts... 96. Fine as it is. A night service would be nice as lots of shift workers in area. 428. So the obvious problem is the indirect link now with Darenth Valley Hospital. But even there not many use it. The loss of the link to Dartford Schools may be a bigger issue. I think at least some school trips could remain to/from Dartford. I also think an extension to Belvedere or even Abbey Wood would be of benefit. 492. Pleased this still will reach Dartford and will make it more reliable for North Cray and Crayford areas where it is sole bus route. Ironically it competes with Arriva's own route 480/490 between Dartford and Greenhithe. However currently the 480 does not serve Bluewater from Dartford. So London Road between East Hill and Waterstone Park loses its Bluewater link. This would need to be replaced by Arriva commercially i would have thought. Possibly a reroute of the 477. Or my preference would be an extension of the 414 during Mon-Sat except eves, with the 490 doing the Bluewater double run evenings and Sundays. You can't reroute the 477 because then Swanley, Hextable and Wilmington lose their connection to Darent Valley Hospital.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jul 31, 2019 15:30:17 GMT
Perhaps for the Dartford schools they could have done a 6xx route like with the 167/677. Could have been Erith to Dartford via the old 428 routeing or maybe via the 492 to Dartford which would have added extra DD cacapcity around the Dartford area and allowed the 492 to convert to SD.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 13:56:55 GMT
Update 10 December 2019
This consultation is closed.
We received a large number of responses to the consultation on these proposals and are currently analysing these. Whilst this is happening the routes will remain as they are. The proposals will not be implemented in January 2020. If any changes are to be made to these bus routes, we will confirm the date of this when we announce our final decision on whether or not to proceed with our proposals.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 17:54:35 GMT
Update 10 December 2019 This consultation is closed. We received a large number of responses to the consultation on these proposals and are currently analysing these. Whilst this is happening the routes will remain as they are. The proposals will not be implemented in January 2020. If any changes are to be made to these bus routes, we will confirm the date of this when we announce our final decision on whether or not to proceed with our proposals. TfL ran into massive and quite well organised opposition to this scheme. Personally I hope the 492 remains as is.
|
|