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Post by ronnie on Jun 29, 2020 8:43:03 GMT
Think where you will run into issues is the way the isle of dogs is served given the limited entry / exit options The 135 is actually fairly busy and is a pretty useful link. During peaks it’s quite busy in the Docklands despite a rather circuitous route (I have used it a number of times to get to work). It gets a fair bit of patronage from people working in the city and living on the commercial road corridor as well so you would run into trouble by withdrawing it Let me be clear. I don't want the 135 to be withdrawn or cut back for that matter, I was merely discussing with MetrolineGA1511 about the possibility of the 135 being in danger when Crossrail opens because the route serves Liverpool Street and Canary Wharf as well as going close to Whitechapel. I think that the connection from the Dockland to the City it provides is quite neat and that withdrawing it totally would be a mistake, but I can see TfL looking at trimming the route with the western end seeming vulnerable though greg raises a good point that the route may just get a frequency cut. Anyway it remains to be seen what happens. True, makes sense. |
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Post by londonboy71 on Jul 25, 2020 20:12:28 GMT
607 is totally unnecessary its supposed to be Express but between White City it often sits behind a 207 or 427 due to traffic on Uxbridge Road. Today I was at West Ealing going to Southall 427 and 607 came along together I got 607. 427 in front zoomed off 607 sat there we then got caught at all the lights when we got to Iron Bridge driver changed the new driver was there waiting. It was 10 mins before we moved. He cleaned all the windows in his cab and outside kept adjusting his seat and pressing buttons. The 427 was long gone .Express route? Yeah rite
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Post by greenboy on Jul 25, 2020 20:35:56 GMT
607 is totally unnecessary its supposed to be Express but between White City it often sits behind a 207 or 427 due to traffic on Uxbridge Road. Today I was at West Ealing going to Southall 427 and 607 came along together I got 607. 427 in front zoomed off 607 sat there we then got caught at all the lights when we got to Iron Bridge driver changed the new driver was there waiting. It was 10 mins before we moved. He cleaned all the windows in his cab and outside kept adjusting his seat and pressing buttons. The 427 was long gone .Express route? Yeah rite I think it was a lot better when it was at UX. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 20:42:35 GMT
607 is totally unnecessary its supposed to be Express but between White City it often sits behind a 207 or 427 due to traffic on Uxbridge Road. Today I was at West Ealing going to Southall 427 and 607 came along together I got 607. 427 in front zoomed off 607 sat there we then got caught at all the lights when we got to Iron Bridge driver changed the new driver was there waiting. It was 10 mins before we moved. He cleaned all the windows in his cab and outside kept adjusting his seat and pressing buttons. The 427 was long gone .Express route? Yeah rite I think it was a lot better when it was at UX. It’s at G because UX is full. If Metroline wanted to focus more on its service , the 607 should be at UX and the 114 at G. |
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Post by met120 on Jul 25, 2020 20:52:10 GMT
607 is totally unnecessary its supposed to be Express but between White City it often sits behind a 207 or 427 due to traffic on Uxbridge Road. Today I was at West Ealing going to Southall 427 and 607 came along together I got 607. 427 in front zoomed off 607 sat there we then got caught at all the lights when we got to Iron Bridge driver changed the new driver was there waiting. It was 10 mins before we moved. He cleaned all the windows in his cab and outside kept adjusting his seat and pressing buttons. The 427 was long gone .Express route? Yeah rite It depends on the driver to be honest. |
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Post by TB123 on Jul 25, 2020 20:52:53 GMT
I think it was a lot better when it was at UX. It’s at G because UX is full. If Metroline wanted to focus more on its service , the 607 should be at UX and the 114 at G. The present arrangements are much better though - changeovers are nice and easy for both routes too. The 607 has 12 starts at Uxbridge in the morning and 8 at White City so there isn't much dead mileage with the A40 being so conveniently located. Performance on both routes has been to a perfectly acceptable standard, indeed the 114 just got a contract extension, so why change that? |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 25, 2020 21:22:01 GMT
607 is totally unnecessary its supposed to be Express but between White City it often sits behind a 207 or 427 due to traffic on Uxbridge Road. Today I was at West Ealing going to Southall 427 and 607 came along together I got 607. 427 in front zoomed off 607 sat there we then got caught at all the lights when we got to Iron Bridge driver changed the new driver was there waiting. It was 10 mins before we moved. He cleaned all the windows in his cab and outside kept adjusting his seat and pressing buttons. The 427 was long gone .Express route? Yeah rite If it's totally unnecessary, why is it so busy in the first place? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 22:03:33 GMT
It’s at G because UX is full. If Metroline wanted to focus more on its service , the 607 should be at UX and the 114 at G. The present arrangements are much better though - changeovers are nice and easy for both routes too. The 607 has 12 starts at Uxbridge in the morning and 8 at White City so there isn't much dead mileage with the A40 being so conveniently located. Performance on both routes has been to a perfectly acceptable standard, indeed the 114 just got a contract extension, so why change that? So an express route can run through it’s route without having a driver change for purely operator convenience midway ? |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 26, 2020 7:28:06 GMT
The present arrangements are much better though - changeovers are nice and easy for both routes too. The 607 has 12 starts at Uxbridge in the morning and 8 at White City so there isn't much dead mileage with the A40 being so conveniently located. Performance on both routes has been to a perfectly acceptable standard, indeed the 114 just got a contract extension, so why change that? So an express route can run through it’s route without having a driver change for purely operator convenience midway ? Bare in mind the 607 is a timetabled service like all other services. So what if theres a driver changeover... drivers are not robots and need a break. Sorry to say those abusive people who do not like hold ups are the same ones who take long to get on by not having their passes ready (elderly and disabled excluded). I always call them out whenever they come up to the cab and moan and they don’t like it. However, 10 Minutes to changeover though is taking the buscuit only thing I can suggest is bus was running early. A two minute changeover is no different to service regulation... Personally I don’t take more than 3 mins there are those odd changeovers where I need to readjust everything, especially those drivers that have mirrors set with just pure bus and barely any road, then you get that odd one where seat is too high or cab smells and needs airing out. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 26, 2020 8:10:40 GMT
The present arrangements are much better though - changeovers are nice and easy for both routes too. The 607 has 12 starts at Uxbridge in the morning and 8 at White City so there isn't much dead mileage with the A40 being so conveniently located. Performance on both routes has been to a perfectly acceptable standard, indeed the 114 just got a contract extension, so why change that? So an express route can run through it’s route without having a driver change for purely operator convenience midway ? Yes and mid route driver changeovers, and the extra stop that has been added to facilitate them, negates some of the benefits of having an express service. Obviously Metroline have their own interests but I really question whether TfL should have allowed this if the original contract is to operate the 607 from UX with no mid route driver changeovers. It might work well from an operational perspective and it might tick all the right boxes on performance but clearly it disbenefits passengers...... an old saying that the operation was a success but the patient sadly died comes to mind. In the long term if passengers no longer wait for a 607 because it isn't significantly faster then there is every chance that it will be withdrawn with just a slight frequency increase on the 207 and 427 to compensate. Off the top of my head...... move the 607 back to UX, the 114 to HD, the 186 to EW, the 32 back to W and the 112 to Greenford? |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 26, 2020 8:41:32 GMT
So an express route can run through it’s route without having a driver change for purely operator convenience midway ? Yes and mid route driver changeovers, and the extra stop that has been added to facilitate them, negates some of the benefits of having an express service. Obviously Metroline have their own interests but I really question whether TfL should have allowed this if the original contract is to operate the 607 from UX with no mid route driver changeovers. It might work well from an operational perspective and it might tick all the right boxes on performance but clearly it disbenefits passengers...... an old saying that the operation was a success but the patient sadly died comes to mind. In the long term if passengers no longer wait for a 607 because it isn't significantly faster then there is every chance that it will be withdrawn with just a slight frequency increase on the 207 and 427 to compensate. Off the top of my head...... move the 607 back to UX, the 114 to HD, the 186 to EW, the 32 back to W and the 112 to Greenford? A simpler option would be 607 G > UX, 114 UX > HD and X140 HD > G. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 12:30:55 GMT
So an express route can run through it’s route without having a driver change for purely operator convenience midway ? Bare in mind the 607 is a timetabled service like all other services. So what if theres a driver changeover... drivers are not robots and need a break. Sorry to say those abusive people who do not like hold ups are the same ones who take long to get on by not having their passes ready (elderly and disabled excluded). I always call them out whenever they come up to the cab and moan and they don’t like it. However, 10 Minutes to changeover though is taking the buscuit only thing I can suggest is bus was running early. A two minute changeover is no different to service regulation... Personally I don’t take more than 3 mins there are those odd changeovers where I need to readjust everything, especially those drivers that have mirrors set with just pure bus and barely any road, then you get that odd one where seat is too high or cab smells and needs airing out. I don't know why you think I thought the 607 drivers were robots?? Changing over at UX is better for them too as well as the passengers. |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 26, 2020 13:36:50 GMT
Bare in mind the 607 is a timetabled service like all other services. So what if theres a driver changeover... drivers are not robots and need a break. Sorry to say those abusive people who do not like hold ups are the same ones who take long to get on by not having their passes ready (elderly and disabled excluded). I always call them out whenever they come up to the cab and moan and they don’t like it. However, 10 Minutes to changeover though is taking the buscuit only thing I can suggest is bus was running early. A two minute changeover is no different to service regulation... Personally I don’t take more than 3 mins there are those odd changeovers where I need to readjust everything, especially those drivers that have mirrors set with just pure bus and barely any road, then you get that odd one where seat is too high or cab smells and needs airing out. I don't know why you think I thought the 607 drivers were robots?? Changing over at UX is better for them too as well as the passengers. UX doesn’t run the route so nothing you can do or the passengers except to get on with life. No point making a fuss over something small. If another operator won the route such as Abellio there would most likely be the same thing live changeovers... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 14:17:47 GMT
Bare in mind the 607 is a timetabled service like all other services. So what if theres a driver changeover... drivers are not robots and need a break. Sorry to say those abusive people who do not like hold ups are the same ones who take long to get on by not having their passes ready (elderly and disabled excluded). I always call them out whenever they come up to the cab and moan and they don’t like it. However, 10 Minutes to changeover though is taking the buscuit only thing I can suggest is bus was running early. A two minute changeover is no different to service regulation... Personally I don’t take more than 3 mins there are those odd changeovers where I need to readjust everything, especially those drivers that have mirrors set with just pure bus and barely any road, then you get that odd one where seat is too high or cab smells and needs airing out. I don't know why you think I thought the 607 drivers were robots?? Changing over at UX is better for them too as well as the passengers. Uxbridge is not a practical changeover point due to the length of the route. With a mid route relief point, each bus passes the relief point twice as often as an end of route relief point (will pass on each trip if mid route, whereas only pass once on a rounder if end of route). This means less opportunities to pull the driver off for relief/finish, leading to less refinement of the duty schedule and leading to an inefficient schedule.
As drivers can only do 5 hours 30 minutes on the bus at a time, a long route with an end of route relief point would mean drivers are limited to 1 rounder spells during the day, whereas with a mid route point, you can get 1.5 rounders or even half a rounder if you need a shorter spell. 2 rounders on the 607 would be around 6 hours during the day so would be wholly impractical to schedule the route with reliefs at Uxbridge. Middle duties which would be 1 rounder, break, then 1 rounder would be really short shifts, so the duty schedule wouldn't work as the rota averages would be too low, requiring more duties.
Jointly compiling the schedule with another route can work sometimes but there are pitfalls as if one route is hampered by traffic delays, it then has a knock on effect on the second route through late reliefs etc. You also need another route big enough to be able to jointly compile with (particularly for high PVR routes, as there's no point jointly compiling a massive route with a small route as there won't be enough spells to compile with on a small route to make much of a difference), and both need a common changeover point. Mid route relief points are almost always favoured over jointly compiling where possible.EDIT: Having looked at the archived schedules on mjcarchive.www.idnet.com/ it seems when the route used to changeover at Uxbridge before, through using lots of spreadovers, and due to the early finishing time of the route, they made it work well without having to jointly compile at Uxbridge. First time I've ever seen a schedule like that work before! If anyone else is interested in having a look at it: mjcarchive.www.idnet.com/schedules/500to999/Schedule_607-50612-MF-MT-1-1.pdf |
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Post by MoEnviro on Jul 26, 2020 14:28:46 GMT
I don't know why you think I thought the 607 drivers were robots?? Changing over at UX is better for them too as well as the passengers. Uxbridge is not a practical changeover point due to the length of the route. With a mid route relief point, each bus passes the relief point twice as often as an end of route relief point (will pass on each trip if mid route, whereas only pass once on a rounder if end of route). This means less opportunities to pull the driver off for relief/finish, leading to less refinement of the duty schedule and leading to an inefficient schedule. As drivers can only do 5 hours 30 minutes on the bus at a time, a long route with an end of route relief point would mean drivers are limited to 1 rounder spells during the day, whereas with a mid route point, you can get 1.5 rounders or even half a rounder if you need a shorter spell. 2 rounders on the 607 would be around 6 hours during the day so would be wholly impractical to schedule the route with reliefs at Uxbridge. Middle duties which would be 1 rounder, break, then 1 rounder would be really short shifts, so the duty schedule wouldn't work as the rota averages would be too low, requiring more duties. Jointly compiling the schedule with another route can work sometimes but there are pitfalls as if one route is hampered by traffic delays, it then has a knock on effect on the second route through late reliefs etc. You also need another route big enough to be able to jointly compile with (particularly for high PVR routes, as there's no point jointly compiling a massive route with a small route as there won't be enough spells to compile with on a small route to make much of a difference), and both need a common changeover point. Mid route relief points are almost always favoured over jointly compiling where possible. Uxbridge have operated the route before, and it does have its positives that you do not have to pay travel time from garage to changeover location. And thanks to standing in the garage you won’t have to pay the driver to cover the stand time at Uxbridge. And on the face of it looks like there are more duties run out on the route run out of Greenford as opposed to Uxbridge (42 v 38). |
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