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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 25, 2020 13:12:38 GMT
And people wonder why cuts are happening.
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Post by redbus on Feb 25, 2020 13:44:39 GMT
London Data store has been updated data.london.gov.uk/dataset/public-transport-journeys-type-transportBus usage Period 10 was 141.4m journeys. The year to date is 1660.7m journeys Last year P10 144.9m (so 2.5% higher) and YTD 1695.1m (2.1% higher) 5 years ago 2014/15 was P10 156.8m (10.9% higher) and YTD 1823.2m (9.8% higher) So depending on choice of statistic bus usage fallen about 11% in 5 years However mileage hasn't fallen 11% which is why buses losing about £82,000 per hour (or £23 per second) or about £300 whilst you read this So do we give up, not do anything to reverse these figures and cut bus services further leading to a further decline in patronage. Or do we look to see what can be done to increase patronage. The one thing we can probably all agree on is that the bus subsidy is unsustainable. Back to the figures, didn't last year's bus consultation aim to cut mileage by 9%? Looking to the future I am relatively gloomy as there's seems no will at the top to do much to increase patronage. More cuts, and new ways of getting around, electric bikes, scooters and so on, will all reduce patronage further. I see more pain before gain!
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Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2020 14:19:46 GMT
And people wonder why cuts are happening. And if you think that will solve everything, then good luck because it won't - more cuts will only continue the decline of patronage further. As a transport provider, TfL should be looking to reverse the decline but its plain to see it has no interest in doing so.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 25, 2020 14:57:35 GMT
And people wonder why cuts are happening. Quite so and more cuts would seem inevitable. TfL seem to have little imagination about how to make bus travel more attractive although in fairness some of the decline in patronage can be attributed to the £1.50 off peak zone 2-6 fare on LU/LO.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 25, 2020 15:08:24 GMT
And people wonder why cuts are happening. And if you think that will solve everything, then good luck because it won't - more cuts will only continue the decline of patronage further. As a transport provider, TfL should be looking to reverse the decline but its plain to see it has no interest in doing so. What would you do given the falling demand and increasing deficit?
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Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2020 16:28:11 GMT
And if you think that will solve everything, then good luck because it won't - more cuts will only continue the decline of patronage further. As a transport provider, TfL should be looking to reverse the decline but its plain to see it has no interest in doing so. What would you do given the falling demand and increasing deficit? Start by looking at the regulation of bus services which slow down services and invest in more priority like bus gates & proper regulations of bus lanes - "speculate to accumulate" comes to mind.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 25, 2020 16:38:56 GMT
What would you do given the falling demand and increasing deficit? Start by looking at the regulation of bus services which slow down services and invest in more priority like bus gates & proper regulations of bus lanes - "speculate to accumulate" comes to mind. Fair enough. And would there be a point you would admit defeat if numbers kept falling?
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Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2020 16:41:25 GMT
Start by looking at the regulation of bus services which slow down services and invest in more priority like bus gates & proper regulations of bus lanes - "speculate to accumulate" comes to mind. Fair enough. And would there be a point you would admit defeat if numbers kept falling? No because if done properly, it would reverse the trend.
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 25, 2020 18:22:19 GMT
Fair enough. And would there be a point you would admit defeat if numbers kept falling? No because if done properly, it would reverse the trend. They need to let the Big Five do what they do elsewhere - this base model nonsense, crap blinds, bland livery sadly makes the bus a less attractive option. Once onboard, a sometimes filthy environment, discarded chicken boxes, old newspapers, and very slow speeds, so nothing would appeal. I'd rather do 20 in a nice car with leather seats and Aircon in the summer Seen on back of 144 bus this morning It seems TfL are aware of the issue and want Sadiq to help make buses great again We should start a twitter hashtag #itsemptyforareason
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Post by greenboy on Feb 25, 2020 18:29:05 GMT
No because if done properly, it would reverse the trend. They need to let the Big Five do what they do elsewhere - this base model nonsense, crap blinds, bland livery sadly makes the bus a less attractive option. Once onboard, a sometimes filthy environment, discarded chicken boxes, old newspapers, and very slow speeds, so nothing would appeal. I'd rather do 20 in a nice car with leather seats and Aircon in the summer That's it in a nutshell. Absolutely nothing to encourage anyone who has other options available to use buses, it's just seen by many as an absolute last resort.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2020 19:57:17 GMT
They need to let the Big Five do what they do elsewhere - this base model nonsense, crap blinds, bland livery sadly makes the bus a less attractive option. Once onboard, a sometimes filthy environment, discarded chicken boxes, old newspapers, and very slow speeds, so nothing would appeal. I'd rather do 20 in a nice car with leather seats and Aircon in the summer That's it in a nutshell. Absolutely nothing to encourage anyone who has other options available to use buses, it's just seen by many as an absolute last resort. I think your over exaggerating some what calling it an absolute last resort - there are still many people who use the bus despite other options available. What it needs is an organisation in charge who actually wants to improve the network.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 25, 2020 20:23:04 GMT
I'm afraid there are parts of the day where the bus is a last resort. Purely for convenience, I'll pay £5-£6 using one of the PHV cab apps to get home than wait for a delayed bus.
Afternoons around 3.15-4.15pm are another bad time to get a bus thanks to school children using them, not to mention the 20mph speed limit.
I'd agree that the TfL £1.50 off-peak rail fare has played its part in decreasing passengers as well. Why would you spend an hour on a bus crawling just to go 5 miles or go on the Tube/Overground?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 25, 2020 20:26:54 GMT
I'm afraid there are parts of the day where the bus is a last resort. Purely for convenience, I'll pay £5-£6 using one of the PHV cab apps to get home than wait for a delayed bus. Afternoons around 3.15-4.15pm are another bad time to get a bus thanks to school children using them, not to mention the 20mph speed limit. I'd agree that the TfL £1.50 off-peak rail fare has played its part in decreasing passengers as well. Why would you spend an hour on a bus crawling just to go 5 miles or go on the Tube/Overground? Ola recently has gained a lot of traction with its cheap introductory fares, I only had to pay £6 from Barking to Greenwich. When this sort of thing is really picking up it's a real rival to the bus which is just getting slower and longer with the amount of links that are being broken.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 20:35:25 GMT
My personal view is London don't need fancy liveries, WIFI and leather seats (Most journeys are short, even more so since TfL decided to cut long routes such as the 25). All most people want is a reliable bus service not being regulated every two minutes. As for messy buses did they not start cleaning buses at terminals at one stage or am I making that up. Even if we had fancy buses they would still get dirty just because of the volume of usage.
I am old fashion but think these cheap cab fares much like internet shopping are good in the short term but long term won't be able to sustain the prices.
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Post by ronnie on Feb 25, 2020 22:14:56 GMT
I'm afraid there are parts of the day where the bus is a last resort. Purely for convenience, I'll pay £5-£6 using one of the PHV cab apps to get home than wait for a delayed bus. Afternoons around 3.15-4.15pm are another bad time to get a bus thanks to school children using them, not to mention the 20mph speed limit. I'd agree that the TfL £1.50 off-peak rail fare has played its part in decreasing passengers as well. Why would you spend an hour on a bus crawling just to go 5 miles or go on the Tube/Overground? I think one desperately needs more bus priority, less regulation, cleaner buses, timely buses which don’t spend time sitting in traffic or driving slower than I can walk and things more or less on time. That will sort out usage - right now people will desert buses for PHVs by the droves
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