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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 19, 2019 12:24:35 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. Except it doesn't work consistently as someone elsewhere has already had experience of this technology on a dustcart and it failed whilst they were driving it. Not only that but capitalomnibus already mentioned above it's GPS based which isn't reliable in itself. The problem people have is more to do with stupid borough wide limits that have not made roads safer at all and will thus subject buses to running at slow speeds constantly leading to increased running times and subsequently, increased costs for operators. My local main road became 20mph a couple of years ago and yet still sees almost daily instances of cars speeding and since the introduction, has seen a fatality as well - the cost of implementing such a scheme (both borough wide speed limits & ISA) could of went to improving public services or improving bus routes so you excuse my annoyance at this whole scheme. Also that it is GPS based, what is there stopping a driver buying a GPS signal disabling device like people do with black box fitted in cars, so they can breach the speed limit etc. Or the pesky passenger that wants a quick ride and turns on one of these devices. The bus then has to be taken out of service after, then when changed, engineers cant find nothing wrong with the bus, there would be another reason for lost mileage.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 19, 2019 12:27:08 GMT
Forgot to enquire, is there a possibility of the ISA tool being activated on buses which TFL aren't responsible for? Regards No doubt they would be flogging it to all bus companies around the country.
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Post by Pilot on Nov 19, 2019 12:27:56 GMT
Nothing worse than driving 20mph at 10PM-2AM on a wide and long enough road that could potentially be a 6 lane motorway. In day time the whole 20mph isn't that bad anyways because of traffic...but you know what triggers me the most, this 20mph actually creates a lot of traffic because as a bus driver you go 20mph and then you look in your mirror and you see 50 cars behind you who are just creating massive traffic jams once the bus pulls at the bus stop, they all go by and then the next thing you know is you have them sit at traffic lights for 5 minutes and traffic is building, where as if they all go 30-40 and however they went traffic flows better
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 19, 2019 12:28:35 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. I don't see the problem either and eventually ISA will surely be fitted to all vehicles as standard. Extensive trials have been undertaken and engine torque rather than harsh breaking is used to slow vehicles down. The driver can turn the system off if necessary and I assume that it will be the same on buses? No driver would not be able to turn it off under any circumstance. It must only be able to be turned off via laptop on OBD port by engineers - TfL rules.
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Post by TP1 on Nov 19, 2019 19:03:45 GMT
I don't see the problem either and eventually ISA will surely be fitted to all vehicles as standard. Extensive trials have been undertaken and engine torque rather than harsh breaking is used to slow vehicles down. The driver can turn the system off if necessary and I assume that it will be the same on buses? No driver would not be able to turn it off under any circumstance. It must only be able to be turned off via laptop on OBD port by engineers - TfL rules. I found that it actually shut off after a full reset of the bus, which was a regular thing to do with the WS's
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Post by M1104 on Nov 20, 2019 11:47:16 GMT
No driver would not be able to turn it off under any circumstance. It must only be able to be turned off via laptop on OBD port by engineers - TfL rules. I found that it actually shut off after a full reset of the bus, which was a regular thing to do with the WS's If that's the case how does it eventually get reactivated again?
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Post by TP1 on Nov 20, 2019 15:31:26 GMT
I found that it actually shut off after a full reset of the bus, which was a regular thing to do with the WS's If that's the case how does it eventually get reactivated again? It comes back on in time, it varied from a few minutes to the rest of the duty. The ISA occasionally randomly shuts off for no apparent reason
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Post by galwhv69 on Nov 20, 2019 16:17:21 GMT
Except it doesn't work consistently as someone elsewhere has already had experience of this technology on a dustcart and it failed whilst they were driving it. Not only that but capitalomnibus already mentioned above it's GPS based which isn't reliable in itself. The problem people have is more to do with stupid borough wide limits that have not made roads safer at all and will thus subject buses to running at slow speeds constantly leading to increased running times and subsequently, increased costs for operators. My local main road became 20mph a couple of years ago and yet still sees almost daily instances of cars speeding and since the introduction, has seen a fatality as well - the cost of implementing such a scheme (both borough wide speed limits & ISA) could of went to improving public services or improving bus routes so you excuse my annoyance at this whole scheme. Also that it is GPS based, what is there stopping a driver buying a GPS signal disabling device like people do with black box fitted in cars, so they can breach the speed limit etc. A 2 year prison sentence or an unlimited fine? And probably getting sacked
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Post by M1104 on Nov 21, 2019 11:55:16 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. Let's extend the idea to taxis and see how they react. Some probably wouldn't mind as it means more time with the metre rolling but I wouldn't imagine many punters happy at the cab crawling along at 20 mph on a relatively wide and clear road where it's still safe to do 30. The device probably wouldn't even affect a lot of Ubers, many of which tend to have silly crashes at under 20mph.
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Post by rif153 on Nov 22, 2019 22:22:56 GMT
Nothing worse than driving 20mph at 10PM-2AM on a wide and long enough road that could potentially be a 6 lane motorway. In day time the whole 20mph isn't that bad anyways because of traffic...but you know what triggers me the most, this 20mph actually creates a lot of traffic because as a bus driver you go 20mph and then you look in your mirror and you see 50 cars behind you who are just creating massive traffic jams once the bus pulls at the bus stop, they all go by and then the next thing you know is you have them sit at traffic lights for 5 minutes and traffic is building, where as if they all go 30-40 and however they went traffic flows better It is so frustrating. I know a GW driver who does the E1 and says that all day he has car horns ringing in his ears because the cars are constantly beeping him when it isn't his fault that his bus is installed with ISA. Many cars have also tried to overtake him whilst he's in motion which has led to some close shaves with collisions due to impatient drivers.
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Post by joefrombow on Nov 23, 2019 0:00:10 GMT
Nothing worse than driving 20mph at 10PM-2AM on a wide and long enough road that could potentially be a 6 lane motorway. In day time the whole 20mph isn't that bad anyways because of traffic...but you know what triggers me the most, this 20mph actually creates a lot of traffic because as a bus driver you go 20mph and then you look in your mirror and you see 50 cars behind you who are just creating massive traffic jams once the bus pulls at the bus stop, they all go by and then the next thing you know is you have them sit at traffic lights for 5 minutes and traffic is building, where as if they all go 30-40 and however they went traffic flows better It is so frustrating. I know a GW driver who does the E1 and says that all day he has car horns ringing in his ears because the cars are constantly beeping him when it isn't his fault that his bus is installed with ISA. Many cars have also tried to overtake him whilst he's in motion which has led to some close shaves with collisions due to impatient drivers. I would say most drivers (though it seems to be ever decreasing) know how to drive appropriately for the road conditions so doing 30 mph on a 20mph road at 3am on a Wednesday morning wouldn't be as dangerous say as at 3pm on a Friday afternoon , with this ISA it is just going to slow down buses and make journeys considerably longer which will further put people of using buses , on top of that it's slightly insulting telling Bus Drivers you can't drive properly so a computer is going to assist , it also frustrates other drivers on the roads , one theory I've heard is that all these blanket 20mph speed limits are in place to lower the amount of potholes on the roads as it reduces them true or not I don't know but looks like we are stuck with them .
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rml1969
Conductor
Adolescent & Youth Worker - OWR Driver
Posts: 69
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Post by rml1969 on Nov 23, 2019 2:13:14 GMT
Without a shadow of a doubt the ISA will cause disruption in the long run. No wonder why former bus commuters are seeking alternative options of travel.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 23, 2019 11:27:48 GMT
Without a shadow of a doubt the ISA will cause disruption in the long run. No wonder why former bus commuters are seeking alternative options of travel. This however is more of a problem with the stupid councils who introduce these 20mph speed limits, you can't naturally expect buses drivers to be breaking the law to get you places.
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Post by E279 on Dec 4, 2019 16:32:40 GMT
Nothing worse than driving 20mph at 10PM-2AM on a wide and long enough road that could potentially be a 6 lane motorway. In day time the whole 20mph isn't that bad anyways because of traffic...but you know what triggers me the most, this 20mph actually creates a lot of traffic because as a bus driver you go 20mph and then you look in your mirror and you see 50 cars behind you who are just creating massive traffic jams once the bus pulls at the bus stop, they all go by and then the next thing you know is you have them sit at traffic lights for 5 minutes and traffic is building, where as if they all go 30-40 and however they went traffic flows better It is so frustrating. I know a GW driver who does the E1 and says that all day he has car horns ringing in his ears because the cars are constantly beeping him when it isn't his fault that his bus is installed with ISA. Many cars have also tried to overtake him whilst he's in motion which has led to some close shaves with collisions due to impatient drivers. It's not ISA though, ISA simply restricts the speed of the bus to the speed limit of the road, to break that speed limit would be to break the law regardless of how busy the road is. The issue is the speed limits that have been imposed rather than the technology itself.
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Post by rif153 on Dec 4, 2019 22:38:58 GMT
It is so frustrating. I know a GW driver who does the E1 and says that all day he has car horns ringing in his ears because the cars are constantly beeping him when it isn't his fault that his bus is installed with ISA. Many cars have also tried to overtake him whilst he's in motion which has led to some close shaves with collisions due to impatient drivers. It's not ISA though, ISA simply restricts the speed of the bus to the speed limit of the road, to break that speed limit would be to break the law regardless of how busy the road is. The issue is the speed limits that have been imposed rather than the technology itself. Yes but previously when the roads had 20mph speed limits, buses would frequently drive faster than that, particularly when running late. ISA stringently limits him to 20mph its my point whereas before the speed limit was not enforced.
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