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Post by E279 on Dec 4, 2019 22:45:21 GMT
It's not ISA though, ISA simply restricts the speed of the bus to the speed limit of the road, to break that speed limit would be to break the law regardless of how busy the road is. The issue is the speed limits that have been imposed rather than the technology itself. Yes but previously when the roads had 20mph speed limits, buses would frequently drive faster than that, particularly when running late. ISA stringently limits him to 20mph its my point whereas before the speed limit was not enforced. If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster.
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Post by Frenzie on Dec 4, 2019 23:00:53 GMT
Yes but previously when the roads had 20mph speed limits, buses would frequently drive faster than that, particularly when running late. ISA stringently limits him to 20mph its my point whereas before the speed limit was not enforced. If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster. I like to look at the speed limit as more of a guide than something which should be stuck to stringently. I really don’t think these 20 mph zones will last. We will look back on this period and think we are absolutely bonkers for conceding to cyclists and motorists rather than investing in public transportation. It’s unsustainable to allow growing car usage and we should be looking at bus priority schemes or even just bus only areas in London to speed up journeys and hopefully make bus travel more attractive. Anyway I’ve deviated from the topic enough but if roads had appropriate speed limits then ISA is fine, however, with all these 20 zones popping up it’s an absolutely terrible idea.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 4, 2019 23:01:48 GMT
Yes but previously when the roads had 20mph speed limits, buses would frequently drive faster than that, particularly when running late. ISA stringently limits him to 20mph its my point whereas before the speed limit was not enforced. If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster. Your are of course right except for the one bit about it not being their for fancy decoration because personally, it is there to dupe people into believing they’re making roads safer when arguably its made it worse. Regardless, you can’t break limits no matter how awful borough wide limits are.
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Post by E279 on Dec 4, 2019 23:05:08 GMT
If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster. Your are of course right except for the one bit about it not being their for fancy decoration because personally, it is there to dupe people into believing they’re making roads safer when arguably its made it worse. Regardless, you can’t break limits no matter how awful borough wide limits are. I agree, the limitations are not very greatly thought out however they still are not fancy decoration, they are the limit you must abide by on that road (even if they are stupid.) The main point of my comment was to say that the issue is not with ISA but with the delusions of those who set the limits.
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Post by redbus on Dec 4, 2019 23:40:57 GMT
Your are of course right except for the one bit about it not being their for fancy decoration because personally, it is there to dupe people into believing they’re making roads safer when arguably its made it worse. Regardless, you can’t break limits no matter how awful borough wide limits are. I agree, the limitations are not very greatly thought out however they still are not fancy decoration, they are the limit you must abide by on that road (even if they are stupid.) The main point of my comment was to say that the issue is not with ISA but with the delusions of those who set the limits. No one should be breaking the law.
The problem with some of the borough wide speed limits is they bring the speed limit down to the lowest common denominator. It is a bit like saying because one section of motorway has a 50mph speed limit, the whole motorway should be 50mph. Some roads can take a higher speed safely, others can't, time of day etc can also be a factors. Blanket 20mph limits do not differentiate and having roads where a higher speed limit would be appropriate only serves to bring the law into disrepute in the eyes of some. It would be much better to keep 20mph limits for those roads that need them and where accident rates show such limits are needed. That I believe would help people to respect and keep within the law and lower accident rates overall.
Bus timetables need to reflect running time and 20mph limits. One of the costs of these blanket 20mph limits is that running time will be extended, more buses will be needed to maintain the same frequency, there may be fewer passengers due to extended journey times, and as a result of all this a higher bus subsidy is probably needed. 20mph limits are not 'free', they do have their costs and this is one of them.
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Post by Pilot on Dec 5, 2019 10:43:04 GMT
As a bus driver I can't wait for limiters because at that point nobody can rant at bus driver for doing 20 in 20 at 1AM in morning which is sometimes a bit ridiculous on big wide roads, besides it's kind of 'difficult' to keep it at steady 20 so it's either 18 or 22mph, so yeah when we got limiters at least I can just put the foot down and know it will not go above 20 and can focus on the road more than staring at the dash if I am speeding by 1mph by pure accident, but then again I a not a fan of these 20mph zones and all...I know bus drivers who literally went to different garages just because their routes got so slow and/or went on different rotas so they can at least drive in 30mph zones...not because of pleasure of speeding, but because 20mph roads is major headache to drive when it's a big wide road and you are leading a train of 40 cars behind you.
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 5, 2019 12:19:33 GMT
As a bus driver I can't wait for limiters because at that point nobody can rant at bus driver for doing 20 in 20 at 1AM in morning which is sometimes a bit ridiculous on big wide roads, besides it's kind of 'difficult' to keep it at steady 20 so it's either 18 or 22mph, so yeah when we got limiters at least I can just put the foot down and know it will not go above 20 and can focus on the road more than staring at the dash if I am speeding by 1mph by pure accident, but then again I a not a fan of these 20mph zones and all...I know bus drivers who literally went to different garages just because their routes got so slow and/or went on different rotas so they can at least drive in 30mph zones...not because of pleasure of speeding, but because 20mph roads is major headache to drive when it's a big wide road and you are leading a train of 40 cars behind you. 20 MPH makes things safer but I think they should at least be 25 MPH. When in 20 Zones those who wish to overtake I let them pass. Too many dangerous drivers on the road and tbh I don’t wish to be near any of those incidents. In addition os it me or are Learner Car drivers now being taught to drive 10 / 20 mph under the speed limit.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 5, 2019 12:45:09 GMT
As a bus driver I can't wait for limiters because at that point nobody can rant at bus driver for doing 20 in 20 at 1AM in morning which is sometimes a bit ridiculous on big wide roads, besides it's kind of 'difficult' to keep it at steady 20 so it's either 18 or 22mph, so yeah when we got limiters at least I can just put the foot down and know it will not go above 20 and can focus on the road more than staring at the dash if I am speeding by 1mph by pure accident, but then again I a not a fan of these 20mph zones and all...I know bus drivers who literally went to different garages just because their routes got so slow and/or went on different rotas so they can at least drive in 30mph zones...not because of pleasure of speeding, but because 20mph roads is major headache to drive when it's a big wide road and you are leading a train of 40 cars behind you. 20 MPH makes things safer but I think they should at least be 25 MPH. When in 20 Zones those who wish to overtake I let them pass. Too many dangerous drivers on the road and tbh I don’t wish to be near any of those incidents. In addition os it me or are Learner Car drivers now being taught to drive 10 / 20 mph under the speed limit. But 20mph isn't safer because there are many idiots on the road in the first place - it is a token gesture just to dupe people into thinking something is being done. Effra Road has two cameras and is 20mph yet is treated like a race track. 20mph also put pressure on bus running times which then need to be changed adding in an extra cost.
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Post by kenmet on Dec 5, 2019 13:04:14 GMT
As a bus driver I can't wait for limiters because at that point nobody can rant at bus driver for doing 20 in 20 at 1AM in morning which is sometimes a bit ridiculous on big wide roads, besides it's kind of 'difficult' to keep it at steady 20 so it's either 18 or 22mph, so yeah when we got limiters at least I can just put the foot down and know it will not go above 20 and can focus on the road more than staring at the dash if I am speeding by 1mph by pure accident, but then again I a not a fan of these 20mph zones and all...I know bus drivers who literally went to different garages just because their routes got so slow and/or went on different rotas so they can at least drive in 30mph zones...not because of pleasure of speeding, but because 20mph roads is major headache to drive when it's a big wide road and you are leading a train of 40 cars behind you. ISA makes things much easier for the driver. I'm open minded about 20mph limits, there are good and bad examples.
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Post by kenmet on Dec 5, 2019 13:05:59 GMT
20 MPH makes things safer but I think they should at least be 25 MPH. When in 20 Zones those who wish to overtake I let them pass. Too many dangerous drivers on the road and tbh I don’t wish to be near any of those incidents. In addition os it me or are Learner Car drivers now being taught to drive 10 / 20 mph under the speed limit. But 20mph isn't safer because there are many idiots on the road in the first place - it is a token gesture just to dupe people into thinking something is being done. Effra Road has two cameras and is 20mph yet is treated like a race track. 20mph also put pressure on bus running times which then need to be changed adding in an extra cost. These 'idiots' just emphasise why ISA is needed.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 5, 2019 13:13:08 GMT
But 20mph isn't safer because there are many idiots on the road in the first place - it is a token gesture just to dupe people into thinking something is being done. Effra Road has two cameras and is 20mph yet is treated like a race track. 20mph also put pressure on bus running times which then need to be changed adding in an extra cost. These 'idiots' just emphasise why ISA is needed. Although that'll only work if it's mandatory on every single car in the country. Currently drivers have the option of disabling it on their own car and I'm pretty sure that those who want to see would have done so. Even if it was made so that you cannot do that people will start to try and get around the software in their cars and a type of "Black market" will develop for these sorts of things. The best idea would be to get rid of these 20 limits. I've encountered far less dangerous driving at 30mph than at 20mph.
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Post by Pilot on Dec 5, 2019 13:29:45 GMT
There will never be 25 and such I think because the rules need to be black and white I suppose...you can't make some roads '25' instead of 20 at specific time of day / night because then when some idiot gets pulled over by police he will say well the law is confusing. Besides we all know if the road is 20, people go 30, if it's 30 people will go 40...so that 20mph zone is basically just to prevent people going 40 I think lol.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 5, 2019 14:10:14 GMT
But 20mph isn't safer because there are many idiots on the road in the first place - it is a token gesture just to dupe people into thinking something is being done. Effra Road has two cameras and is 20mph yet is treated like a race track. 20mph also put pressure on bus running times which then need to be changed adding in an extra cost. These 'idiots' just emphasise why ISA is needed. But it's not compulsory for it to be active on cars and has no plans to be so it's a waste of money that could go to something else. What's needed is education and not just a TV advert every now and then - this country is too obsessed with banning and similar.
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 5, 2019 15:01:23 GMT
There will never be 25 and such I think because the rules need to be black and white I suppose...you can't make some roads '25' instead of 20 at specific time of day / night because then when some idiot gets pulled over by police he will say well the law is confusing. Besides we all know if the road is 20, people go 30, if it's 30 people will go 40...so that 20mph zone is basically just to prevent people going 40 I think lol. I don’t agree with that it’s rubbish. The signs are there for a reason. I think all Town Centres should be 20 and Quiet Side Streets 25 MPH. Indeed if people are doing over 20 in a 20 zone they are breaking the law. I’ve seen people doing 40 in 20 zones.
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Post by redbus on Dec 5, 2019 15:01:34 GMT
As a bus driver I can't wait for limiters because at that point nobody can rant at bus driver for doing 20 in 20 at 1AM in morning which is sometimes a bit ridiculous on big wide roads, besides it's kind of 'difficult' to keep it at steady 20 so it's either 18 or 22mph, so yeah when we got limiters at least I can just put the foot down and know it will not go above 20 and can focus on the road more than staring at the dash if I am speeding by 1mph by pure accident, but then again I a not a fan of these 20mph zones and all...I know bus drivers who literally went to different garages just because their routes got so slow and/or went on different rotas so they can at least drive in 30mph zones...not because of pleasure of speeding, but because 20mph roads is major headache to drive when it's a big wide road and you are leading a train of 40 cars behind you. I will be pleasantly surprised if it stops people ranting at you. If fear you will find that no one will care the reason why you are doing 20 mph, whether it is speed assist or anything else, if people get fed up with going at 20 mph they will rant anyway. Don't forget they already rant today when the law says the maximum speed is 20 mph.
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