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Post by kenmet on Dec 23, 2019 20:33:58 GMT
Really? If anybody wishes to discuss Donald Trump perhaps they might like to start a thread in the off route section. I mean no disrespect but sometime it really does seem you enjoy trolling for a reaction! If its not about the LT is something else like Trump!
Anyway its Christmas so maybe time for a forum truce and spreading of peace.
It wasn't me that brought Trump into it. Seems you're the one trolling for a reaction, now perhaps we can leave it there?
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Post by kenmet on Dec 23, 2019 20:35:53 GMT
There will be cuts whoever the mayor is, falling usage makes that inevitable, and any fares increase will result in a further decline in usage. The £1.50 fare needs to increase we have had it good for ages! If fares had gone up with inflation I am sure it was be more near £1.80 - £2.00 now. Quite possibly but how many people will stop using buses as a result?
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Post by dla314 on Dec 23, 2019 21:53:12 GMT
The Night tube will eventually run 7 days a week, I predict. Route 25 will become 24hr as before but only run up to City Thameslink, N8 provides further westbound access. Route 55 will be cut back to Holborn, excuse will be continuing westbound change to route 98. I could see the 25 being cut back to Stratford on the eastern terminus as routes 86 and 425 provide access towards Ilford. Changes to routes in the Beckton/Gallions Reach area, 101 and 262 cut back to Beckton Bus Stn. Route 136 back to terminating at Peckham, continue through Southampton Estate with the 343. Just cant work out why N buses are still entering zone 1, possibly as the tube doesn't operate after around midnight. I don't mean to be harsh but the status of buses in London, isn't looking good at all. N25 is well used so I cannot see the 25 becoming 24hr again, especially if it terminates at the useless City Thameslink. Would rather the 25 be extended to Holborn if TCR and Oxford Circus is too much for TFL but that won't happen
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Post by rj131 on Dec 23, 2019 23:02:14 GMT
The Night tube will eventually run 7 days a week, I predict. Route 25 will become 24hr as before but only run up to City Thameslink, N8 provides further westbound access. Route 55 will be cut back to Holborn, excuse will be continuing westbound change to route 98. I could see the 25 being cut back to Stratford on the eastern terminus as routes 86 and 425 provide access towards Ilford. Changes to routes in the Beckton/Gallions Reach area, 101 and 262 cut back to Beckton Bus Stn. Route 136 back to terminating at Peckham, continue through Southampton Estate with the 343. Just cant work out why N buses are still entering zone 1, possibly as the tube doesn't operate after around midnight. I don't mean to be harsh but the status of buses in London, isn't looking good at all. No way could the 25 be withdrawn from Stratford to Ilford without replacing it, one of if not the busiest bus corridor in the country. I don’t actually see the same negativity on the buses as some others. Yeah it probably will still get a bit worse before it gets better but if a recovery could be made from the cuts of the 1980s then the same can happen here. Also hopefully with the fares freeze ending should ease the finances *somewhat* which hopefully means cuts shouldn’t be as aggressive. I don’t know this for sure but I can’t see Khan backing out of his ‘bus improvements for outer London’ pledge so hopefully we should see some improvements there, but maybe not as soon as he’s re-elected as he can do what he wants to start with with no upcoming election to worry about. At least with some improvements that have been made there’ll be some good improvements among the decline. I think the 296, 158, W19 and 60 will become incredibly strong routes now they’ve been beefed up a bit, 158 especially now it’s a whopping 10bph.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 23, 2019 23:11:51 GMT
The Night tube will eventually run 7 days a week, I predict. Route 25 will become 24hr as before but only run up to City Thameslink, N8 provides further westbound access. Route 55 will be cut back to Holborn, excuse will be continuing westbound change to route 98. I could see the 25 being cut back to Stratford on the eastern terminus as routes 86 and 425 provide access towards Ilford. Changes to routes in the Beckton/Gallions Reach area, 101 and 262 cut back to Beckton Bus Stn. Route 136 back to terminating at Peckham, continue through Southampton Estate with the 343. Just cant work out why N buses are still entering zone 1, possibly as the tube doesn't operate after around midnight. I don't mean to be harsh but the status of buses in London, isn't looking good at all. No way could the 25 be withdrawn from Stratford to Ilford without replacing it, one of if not the busiest bus corridor in the country. I don’t actually see the same negativity on the buses as some others. Yeah it probably will still get a bit worse before it gets better but if a recovery could be made from the cuts of the 1980s then the same can happen here. Also hopefully with the fares freeze ending should ease the finances *somewhat* which hopefully means cuts shouldn’t be as aggressive. I don’t know this for sure but I can’t see Khan backing out of his ‘bus improvements for outer London’ pledge so hopefully we should see some improvements there, but maybe not as soon as he’s re-elected as he can do what he wants to start with with no upcoming election to worry about. At least with some improvements that have been made there’ll be some good improvements among the decline. I think the 296, 158, W19 and 60 will become incredibly strong routes now they’ve been beefed up a bit, 158 especially. I agree with you in that I don't see the same negativity for 2020. Not so much because of the ending of the fares freeze but more, because as you said the election is next year too. I don't think any cuts just before a mayoral election - especially to major routes such as the 25 will go very well with the locals when everyone knows who is ultimately responsible for TfL. London is a Labour city, and probably always will be but when it comes to mayoral elections remember that the 2008 and 2012 elections both resulted in a Conservative mayor showing that people aren't scared to switch when it comes to the mayoral elections as opposed to General elections. My guess for 2020 is that we will probably have improvements to the bus services, or if any services are reduced in some way the actual reduction part of them is heavily masked over - a bit like how the 266s replacement along Acton High Street with a single decker route being glossed over by the fact it's a brand new route and TfL making a fuss about that.
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Post by E279 on Dec 23, 2019 23:31:21 GMT
No way could the 25 be withdrawn from Stratford to Ilford without replacing it, one of if not the busiest bus corridor in the country. I don’t actually see the same negativity on the buses as some others. Yeah it probably will still get a bit worse before it gets better but if a recovery could be made from the cuts of the 1980s then the same can happen here. Also hopefully with the fares freeze ending should ease the finances *somewhat* which hopefully means cuts shouldn’t be as aggressive. I don’t know this for sure but I can’t see Khan backing out of his ‘bus improvements for outer London’ pledge so hopefully we should see some improvements there, but maybe not as soon as he’s re-elected as he can do what he wants to start with with no upcoming election to worry about. At least with some improvements that have been made there’ll be some good improvements among the decline. I think the 296, 158, W19 and 60 will become incredibly strong routes now they’ve been beefed up a bit, 158 especially. I agree with you in that I don't see the same negativity for 2020. Not so much because of the ending of the fares freeze but more, because as you said the election is next year too. I don't think any cuts just before a mayoral election - especially to major routes such as the 25 will go very well with the locals when everyone knows who is ultimately responsible for TfL. London is a Labour city, and probably always will be but when it comes to mayoral elections remember that the 2008 and 2012 elections both resulted in a Conservative mayor showing that people aren't scared to switch when it comes to the mayoral elections as opposed to General elections. My guess for 2020 is that we will probably have improvements to the bus services, or if any services are reduced in some way the actual reduction part of them is heavily masked over - a bit like how the 266s replacement along Acton High Street with a single decker route being glossed over by the fact it's a brand new route and TfL making a fuss about that. Seems the fare freeze will remain rather than end. www.cityam.com/sadiq-khan-confirms-2020-tfl-fare-freeze/
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Post by rj131 on Dec 23, 2019 23:35:24 GMT
I agree with you in that I don't see the same negativity for 2020. Not so much because of the ending of the fares freeze but more, because as you said the election is next year too. I don't think any cuts just before a mayoral election - especially to major routes such as the 25 will go very well with the locals when everyone knows who is ultimately responsible for TfL. London is a Labour city, and probably always will be but when it comes to mayoral elections remember that the 2008 and 2012 elections both resulted in a Conservative mayor showing that people aren't scared to switch when it comes to the mayoral elections as opposed to General elections. My guess for 2020 is that we will probably have improvements to the bus services, or if any services are reduced in some way the actual reduction part of them is heavily masked over - a bit like how the 266s replacement along Acton High Street with a single decker route being glossed over by the fact it's a brand new route and TfL making a fuss about that. Seems the fare freeze will remain rather than end. www.cityam.com/sadiq-khan-confirms-2020-tfl-fare-freeze/Oh yeah this is the fourth and last year of the fares freeze, ie the last year of his mayoral term. If re-elected though it’s all but guaranteed he won’t pledge a fares freeze throughout his second term. Ie from 2021 onwards
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Post by vjaska on Dec 23, 2019 23:35:35 GMT
You seriously think that if we have a Conservative Mayor, there will no longer be bus cuts? There will be cuts whoever the mayor is, falling usage makes that inevitable, and any fares increase will result in a further decline in usage. Falling usage doesn't make it inevitable - combination of removal of the subsidy & introduction of hopper fare and fares freeze resulting in less income coming in has resulted in cuts. Cutting because of falling usage is foolish because you'd want to focus on why that usage is falling and subsequently find ways to reverse it and cutting something doesn't achieve anything other than usage falling.
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 23, 2019 23:49:55 GMT
There will be cuts whoever the mayor is, falling usage makes that inevitable, and any fares increase will result in a further decline in usage. Falling usage doesn't make it inevitable - combination of removal of the subsidy & introduction of hopper fare and fares freeze resulting in less income coming in has resulted in cuts. Cutting because of falling usage is foolish because you'd want to focus on why that usage is falling and subsequently find ways to reverse it and cutting something doesn't achieve anything other than usage falling. It is a standard business model ... Demand decreases, reduce supply ... try things to increase demand, if they work, increase supply. To be honest, the failure of WrightBus to act in this way caused their downfall. Overheads needed cutting fast ... It was not done
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Post by vjaska on Dec 24, 2019 1:20:40 GMT
Falling usage doesn't make it inevitable - combination of removal of the subsidy & introduction of hopper fare and fares freeze resulting in less income coming in has resulted in cuts. Cutting because of falling usage is foolish because you'd want to focus on why that usage is falling and subsequently find ways to reverse it and cutting something doesn't achieve anything other than usage falling. It is a standard business model ... Demand decreases, reduce supply ... try things to increase demand, if they work, increase supply. To be honest, the failure of WrightBus to act in this way caused their downfall. Overheads needed cutting fast ... It was not done But that's the point, they've not tried to increase demand which certainly won't happen by cutting things Wrightbus is a private business unlike TfL which is running a public service that millions rely on and which had a model that was working until it's subsidy was removed and compounded by introduction of a fares freeze & hopper fare.
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 24, 2019 5:53:55 GMT
Falling usage doesn't make it inevitable - combination of removal of the subsidy & introduction of hopper fare and fares freeze resulting in less income coming in has resulted in cuts. Cutting because of falling usage is foolish because you'd want to focus on why that usage is falling and subsequently find ways to reverse it and cutting something doesn't achieve anything other than usage falling. It is a standard business model ... Demand decreases, reduce supply ... try things to increase demand, if they work, increase supply. To be honest, the failure of WrightBus to act in this way caused their downfall. Overheads needed cutting fast ... It was not done Wrightbus was a sad example of mismanagement of funds, poor engine choices, and not listening to your customers and adapting. Hopefully the new company will add better models, or at least drop the gutless 4 cylinder engine. Even Arriva London got rid of HW100 as soon as they could. Such a shame. From a passenger viewpoint, nothing lures me onto a bus in London any more. Facety passengers, cramped space, dirty deats that are usually uncomfortable, low speeds or traffic, no creature comforts like outside the M25. Surprised Wifi seems to have bypassed London completely. As nice as USB charging ports on the shiny 192 buses are, it would be great if I could get a seat on said bus in the first place where there is demand, nothing is done. When there clearly is less demand, send less buses out in the day. A theme park like Alton Towers would not survive if the place was near empty, but they still had everything running and just hoped for the best the faceless individuals running TfL have forgotten their customer base, unlike Reading Buses who make such an effort.
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Post by kenmet on Dec 24, 2019 7:07:13 GMT
It is a standard business model ... Demand decreases, reduce supply ... try things to increase demand, if they work, increase supply. To be honest, the failure of WrightBus to act in this way caused their downfall. Overheads needed cutting fast ... It was not done Wrightbus was a sad example of mismanagement of funds, poor engine choices, and not listening to your customers and adapting. Hopefully the new company will add better models, or at least drop the gutless 4 cylinder engine. Even Arriva London got rid of HW100 as soon as they could. Such a shame. From a passenger viewpoint, nothing lures me onto a bus in London any more. Facety passengers, cramped space, dirty deats that are usually uncomfortable, low speeds or traffic, no creature comforts like outside the M25. Surprised Wifi seems to have bypassed London completely. As nice as USB charging ports on the shiny 192 buses are, it would be great if I could get a seat on said bus in the first place where there is demand, nothing is done. When there clearly is less demand, send less buses out in the day. A theme park like Alton Towers would not survive if the place was near empty, but they still had everything running and just hoped for the best the faceless individuals running TfL have forgotten their customer base, unlike Reading Buses who make such an effort. That's a great comparison, Alton Towers just blindly continuing to run all their rides despite fewer and fewer people coming through the turnstiles. It's hard to see anything other than a further decline in bus usage as TfL have done nothing to stem their losses by making bus travel more attractive and any fares increase will only drive more passengers away, in any case gimmicks like free travel for kids and open boarding has just lead to a culture of free travel and the half hearted change to boarding arrangements on LT's really is too little too late. TfL should send a delegation down to Reading to see how it should be done.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 24, 2019 8:43:26 GMT
>>> TfL should send a delegation down to Reading to see how it should be done. <<<
Reading Buses cuts services too! Look at the new route 7 timetable from 6th January for starters.
I'm not going to engage with you politically as your views as stated on this thread are so different from mine that I doubt we could have a meaningful debate.
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Post by kenmet on Dec 24, 2019 8:48:22 GMT
>>> TfL should send a delegation down to Reading to see how it should be done. <<< Reading Buses cuts services too! Look at the new route 7 timetable from 6th January for starters. I'm not going to engage with you politically as your views as stated on this thread are so different from mine that I doubt we could have a meaningful debate. I wasn't aware of the route 7 reduction but bus travel in many areas is declining largely due to lifestyle changes.
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Post by snowman on Dec 24, 2019 8:53:46 GMT
I agree with you in that I don't see the same negativity for 2020. Not so much because of the ending of the fares freeze but more, because as you said the election is next year too. I don't think any cuts just before a mayoral election - especially to major routes such as the 25 will go very well with the locals when everyone knows who is ultimately responsible for TfL. London is a Labour city, and probably always will be but when it comes to mayoral elections remember that the 2008 and 2012 elections both resulted in a Conservative mayor showing that people aren't scared to switch when it comes to the mayoral elections as opposed to General elections. My guess for 2020 is that we will probably have improvements to the bus services, or if any services are reduced in some way the actual reduction part of them is heavily masked over - a bit like how the 266s replacement along Acton High Street with a single decker route being glossed over by the fact it's a brand new route and TfL making a fuss about that. Seems the fare freeze will remain rather than end. www.cityam.com/sadiq-khan-confirms-2020-tfl-fare-freeze/That is for 2020, but always intended to freeze fares until the next mayor election Having ploughed through the TfL Business Plan published recently, fairly obvious that whatever the published intentions, the 3 big financial holes (bus revenue, Crossrail cost overruns, fare freeze) are not sustainable. Just being plugged short term by deferring much needed capital investment and routine replacements/refurbishments. The recent fall in bus usage since October seems to have caught TfL out, the Board papers simply refer to it as unexpected, for unexplained reasons. But to me cutting through the business speak its blatantly obvious central London buses are going to be heavily cut (and Business plan says this). Yes they might have an aim to maintain overall mileage by expanding outer London, but don't need to think too hard to work out that an outer London bus can cover 2-3 times the distance than one crawling in Central London. So based on the business plan, I would expect not a lot of change until after mayor election, then a fairly hefty set of cuts in Central London through remainder of 2020 and into 2021. I am going to suggest that evening and night buses could be heavily cut (unless a higher night fare is introduced). The waffle about London being a 24 hour city is just fantasy (how many schools or doctors surgeries etc do you know that operate at night ?), quite a small part is open at night so why provide a comprehensive night network at great cost. So my prediction is bus fleet cut by 500 (by mid 2021)
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