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Post by wirewiper on Dec 28, 2019 18:53:40 GMT
There is an interesting article in today's Guardian newspaper (Saturday 28th December) and on the Guardian online website, about a minibus operation in Tel Aviv that is upsetting the applecart - because it operates during Shabbat. Israel has a good network of trains, trams and buses, but much of it grinds to a halt at sunset on Friday with limited or no service until sunset on Saturday. Whilst less the case in majority Muslim towns or mixed areas such as Haifa, in majority Jewish areas the policy of reducing or shutting down transport services during Shabbat has been widely enforced and is fiercely defended by traditionalist rabbis. Secular Jews have long argued against the policy, claiming that it affects poorer people disproportionately - as richer secular Jews can simply drive or take taxis. A recent survey has shown the 60% of Israelis support public transport during Shabbat, so long as ultra-Orthodox areas are avoided - 97% of Orthodox Jews remain opposed and would be unlikely to use the services anyway. Now Tel Aviv municipality has introduced a Shabbat minibus network. Rather than trying to seek unlikely approval from the Ministry of Transport for a paid service, they made it free and it has been an instant hit, so much that there is already talk of upgrading to full-size buses. A number of largely secular authorities are also looking at introducing services during Shabbat. The full article: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/dec/28/secular-israel-sabbath-buses
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 23:52:39 GMT
There is an interesting article in today's Guardian newspaper (Saturday 28th December) and on the Guardian online website, about a minibus operation in Tel Aviv that is upsetting the applecart - because it operates during Shabbat. Israel has a good network of trains, trams and buses, but much of it grinds to a halt at sunset on Friday with limited or no service until sunset on Saturday. Whilst less the case in majority Muslim towns or mixed areas such as Haifa, in majority Jewish areas the policy of reducing or shutting down transport services during Shabbat has been widely enforced and is fiercely defended by traditionalist rabbis. Secular Jews have long argued against the policy, claiming that it affects poorer people disproportionately - as richer secular Jews can simply drive or take taxis. A recent survey has shown the 60% of Israelis support public transport during Shabbat, so long as ultra-Orthodox areas are avoided - 97% of Orthodox Jews remain opposed and would be unlikely to use the services anyway. Now Tel Aviv municipality has introduced a Shabbat minibus network. Rather than trying to seek unlikely approval from the Ministry of Transport for a paid service, they made it free and it has been an instant hit, so much that there is already talk of upgrading to full-size buses. A number of largely secular authorities are also looking at introducing services during Shabbat. The full article: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/dec/28/secular-israel-sabbath-busesAbsolutely convinced Christmas Day in London , if buses ran, they would be used well. Just like this example.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 29, 2019 0:24:00 GMT
There is an interesting article in today's Guardian newspaper (Saturday 28th December) and on the Guardian online website, about a minibus operation in Tel Aviv that is upsetting the applecart - because it operates during Shabbat. Israel has a good network of trains, trams and buses, but much of it grinds to a halt at sunset on Friday with limited or no service until sunset on Saturday. Whilst less the case in majority Muslim towns or mixed areas such as Haifa, in majority Jewish areas the policy of reducing or shutting down transport services during Shabbat has been widely enforced and is fiercely defended by traditionalist rabbis. Secular Jews have long argued against the policy, claiming that it affects poorer people disproportionately - as richer secular Jews can simply drive or take taxis. A recent survey has shown the 60% of Israelis support public transport during Shabbat, so long as ultra-Orthodox areas are avoided - 97% of Orthodox Jews remain opposed and would be unlikely to use the services anyway. Now Tel Aviv municipality has introduced a Shabbat minibus network. Rather than trying to seek unlikely approval from the Ministry of Transport for a paid service, they made it free and it has been an instant hit, so much that there is already talk of upgrading to full-size buses. A number of largely secular authorities are also looking at introducing services during Shabbat. The full article: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/dec/28/secular-israel-sabbath-busesAbsolutely convinced Christmas Day in London , if buses ran, they would be used well. Just like this example. But for that someone else's Christmas would need to be ruined by being told to come into work. We have managed for many years without a bus service on Christmas and we don't need one now.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 29, 2019 0:36:25 GMT
Absolutely convinced Christmas Day in London , if buses ran, they would be used well. Just like this example. But for that someone else's Christmas would need to be ruined by being told to come into work. We have managed for many years without a bus service on Christmas and we don't need one now. And even if we did need it, why can't we just have one day in the year where everything shuts down for an important holiday. It's as if people actually want Christmas to fall into obscurity.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 29, 2019 7:36:53 GMT
There is an interesting article in today's Guardian newspaper (Saturday 28th December) and on the Guardian online website, about a minibus operation in Tel Aviv that is upsetting the applecart - because it operates during Shabbat. Israel has a good network of trains, trams and buses, but much of it grinds to a halt at sunset on Friday with limited or no service until sunset on Saturday. Whilst less the case in majority Muslim towns or mixed areas such as Haifa, in majority Jewish areas the policy of reducing or shutting down transport services during Shabbat has been widely enforced and is fiercely defended by traditionalist rabbis. Secular Jews have long argued against the policy, claiming that it affects poorer people disproportionately - as richer secular Jews can simply drive or take taxis. A recent survey has shown the 60% of Israelis support public transport during Shabbat, so long as ultra-Orthodox areas are avoided - 97% of Orthodox Jews remain opposed and would be unlikely to use the services anyway. Now Tel Aviv municipality has introduced a Shabbat minibus network. Rather than trying to seek unlikely approval from the Ministry of Transport for a paid service, they made it free and it has been an instant hit, so much that there is already talk of upgrading to full-size buses. A number of largely secular authorities are also looking at introducing services during Shabbat. The full article: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/dec/28/secular-israel-sabbath-busesAbsolutely convinced Christmas Day in London , if buses ran, they would be used well. Just like this example. Yes I'm sure they would be, interesting article on the subject below from 12 years ago. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504378/Fury-public-transport-closed-Christmas.html
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 29, 2019 12:02:00 GMT
There is an interesting article in today's Guardian newspaper (Saturday 28th December) and on the Guardian online website, about a minibus operation in Tel Aviv that is upsetting the applecart - because it operates during Shabbat. Israel has a good network of trains, trams and buses, but much of it grinds to a halt at sunset on Friday with limited or no service until sunset on Saturday. Whilst less the case in majority Muslim towns or mixed areas such as Haifa, in majority Jewish areas the policy of reducing or shutting down transport services during Shabbat has been widely enforced and is fiercely defended by traditionalist rabbis. Secular Jews have long argued against the policy, claiming that it affects poorer people disproportionately - as richer secular Jews can simply drive or take taxis. A recent survey has shown the 60% of Israelis support public transport during Shabbat, so long as ultra-Orthodox areas are avoided - 97% of Orthodox Jews remain opposed and would be unlikely to use the services anyway. Now Tel Aviv municipality has introduced a Shabbat minibus network. Rather than trying to seek unlikely approval from the Ministry of Transport for a paid service, they made it free and it has been an instant hit, so much that there is already talk of upgrading to full-size buses. A number of largely secular authorities are also looking at introducing services during Shabbat. The full article: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/dec/28/secular-israel-sabbath-busesAbsolutely convinced Christmas Day in London , if buses ran, they would be used well. Just like this example. This isn't really equivalent though, Israeli buses operating during Shabbat is more akin to Sunday services in the UK. A better comparison would be the level of service on the most significant Jewish religious holidays such as Yom Kippur which even a great number of Secular Jews observe - would these buses operate then?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 21:00:23 GMT
People have to work and travel on the most holy of days across the world. The concept of shutting everything down and nobody does nothing simply doesn't exist.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 30, 2019 0:02:13 GMT
People have to work and travel on the most holy of days across the world. The concept of shutting everything down and nobody does nothing simply doesn't exist. A regular Sunday isn't the same as Christmas Day and as I've mentioned before, I'd fully support a return to Sundays being how they were where shops were shut - as usual, no one bothers to think about overworked and underpaid retail staff with little rights and you'll be pleased to know that Sundays hours will sadly disappear eventually as retailers will get their way and the concept of Sunday itself ceasing to exist.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 0:44:22 GMT
People have to work and travel on the most holy of days across the world. The concept of shutting everything down and nobody does nothing simply doesn't exist. A regular Sunday isn't the same as Christmas Day and as I've mentioned before, I'd fully support a return to Sundays being how they were where shops were shut - as usual, no one bothers to think about overworked and underpaid retail staff with little rights and you'll be pleased to know that Sundays hours will sadly disappear eventually as retailers will get their way and the concept of Sunday itself ceasing to exist. I’m sorry , for me Sunday’s and Christmas Day are normal days in every sense, except I have to drive to work rather than catch a train or a bus.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 30, 2019 12:07:14 GMT
A regular Sunday isn't the same as Christmas Day and as I've mentioned before, I'd fully support a return to Sundays being how they were where shops were shut - as usual, no one bothers to think about overworked and underpaid retail staff with little rights and you'll be pleased to know that Sundays hours will sadly disappear eventually as retailers will get their way and the concept of Sunday itself ceasing to exist. I’m sorry , for me Sunday’s and Christmas Day are normal days in every sense, except I have to drive to work rather than catch a train or a bus. However to many people Christmas days and Sundays are not normal days. We can't always have everything the way that we want, seeing as the uniqueness of Sundays has already been ruined we can at least keep Christmas Day special especially considering it's just one day in 365. If it was up to me I'd also probably have no public transport on Easter Sunday as well.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 30, 2019 12:55:36 GMT
I’m sorry , for me Sunday’s and Christmas Day are normal days in every sense, except I have to drive to work rather than catch a train or a bus. However to many people Christmas days and Sundays are not normal days. We can't always have everything the way that we want, seeing as the uniqueness of Sundays has already been ruined we can at least keep Christmas Day special especially considering it's just one day in 365. If it was up to me I'd also probably have no public transport on Easter Sunday as well. As you rightly say we can't always have everything the way we want it and those for whom Sunday's and Christmas are special are free to keep it that way, I still see plenty of people going to church on Sunday mornings for instance. I'm not a religious person and Sunday, Christmas and Easter are of no special significance to me and clearly many other people are the same, obviously shops wouldn't open on Sunday's if people didn't want to go shopping and my step daughter has a part time Sunday job to boost her income whilst she's at uni, a job she obviously wouldn't have without Sunday trading. I just don't see any rational case for turning the clock back to how things used to be with everything closed on Sundays and town centres like ghost towns, my memory of Sundays as a child was a boring day. Society changes and clearly public holidays aren't as important to many people as they once were, Easter and Christmas is nice for children getting Easter eggs and presents but I think most adults are indifferent to it all.
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