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Post by rif153 on Jul 4, 2020 22:14:44 GMT
Could we see post lockdown the Government removing night tube on the northern line due to how duplicated it is with night routes? Surely TfL decide what tube lines run at night not the government
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 5, 2020 7:13:44 GMT
269 301 401 B13 & B15 all return to normal Monday-Friday Service from Monday 13th July making the whole of DT full PVR again.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 5, 2020 7:25:40 GMT
Could we see post lockdown the Government removing night tube on the northern line due to how duplicated it is with night routes? The Government won't want the night tube to be removed as it will be essential to reviving London's night-time economy.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 5, 2020 8:38:36 GMT
I think, as of today, essential travel has gone out of the window now the majority of places is open. Agree 100% East London was totally back to the "old" normal. Stratford was really busy especially outside the station. Also seen some very busy buses especially the 115. I wonder how the government expects people to get to pubs without drink driving if public transport is to be avoided. Not everywhere is practical to walk or cycle also we are only a few months away from autumn and then no one will fancy cycling once the novelty has worn off. I'm guessing the UK Government's current covid-19 strategy has changed to "Herd Immunity By Stealth".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 13:40:28 GMT
London Open Top Tours are starting up again.
Big Bus Tours start 10/7
Original Tours started limited tours yesterday
Nice to see some normality returning.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2020 21:46:56 GMT
Well Unite took the stick from a lot of its members, some who left over them not taking action. Unite even went and suspended a lot of Union reps at garages over them being 'active' against the union for not implementing certain measures etc. I would say if anything that the operating companies itself had a large part to play in many of the deaths due to lack of cleaning sufficiently and that is in the buses, garages, canteens and bus station areas.
Unite did what all the old dinosaur unions do, react to who shouts loudest, without thinking what puts their members on best long term footing. It was fairly obvious to many that if there are problems on buses with assault screens, then the problem is probably on drivers side of the screen and not the passenger side. So they took action that effectively discouraged travel and therefore stopped revenue. Then they wondered why their members are losing income as the companies that employ them have less money. I fail to see how bus drivers would be losing income in London as a result.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2020 22:36:25 GMT
I may be late to the party, but let's break this pro-car rhetoric shall we I've had anti-car leanings for years and I'm not going to hide this. My Parents never got a car in the end (even though my Dad has a license) and having to rely on public transport for all these years has not exactly taken away from our dignity you know 🙄 We just get on with it instead of complaining all the time like many people here. Even if my Parents did own a car, I'd still not get chauffeured anywhere and be told to get the bus. For it's there, to be used! Suppose our Eastern European mentality is very different to here - which is quite ironic actually considering UK has a much better overall bus service; that is better ticketing (eg. multi-operator tickets - heck in Poland where I'm from you'd be lucky if they even sell you a return one!), overall coverage, consideration for all the DDA stuff such as low-floor (in PL your typical bus out of town would be a Sprinter), as well as emissions (I've read somewhere few years ago something like 20% of PSVs used in Poland were registered before year 2000 🤣) , and of course the lovely iconic double-decker buses being a commonplace chariot, whilst most we've got on the continent are bendy-buses, and that's only within cities. I mean the British bus user has so much facilities provided to them and they're still not happy 🙄 I've once had to travel on a nearly 3h long, 5-return-trips-a-day route using a Mercedes midibus that was packed to the windshield back in my country, which also turned up 43minutes late by the way - and despite such squalid conditions occuring, people still use public transport. While here if seats aren't comfortable enough, wifi doesn't work and there's no USB sockets, shock horror - here comes the uproar 🤣 If we keep getting more cars it's only going to cause more congestion, and London's tiny roads are already bursting, unable to facilitate the volumes. This city simply cannot sustain this level of traffic. It was night and day between what we've had right pre-Covid vs 10 years ago. Unacceptable it's been allowed to rise to this level imho. I don't care if these cars are going to be electric or hydrogen/whatever in few years - it may cut the fumes and pollution related afflictions and deaths yes, but still not going to help journey times. Look at the passenger-to-space ratio of a double-decker vs a car for crying out loud. There should be more bus lanes - somewhere like Kraków people who own cars are still known to get the bus into the city because of abundant bus lanes that cut down journey times massively - whilst cars sit there stuck for 1h+. But when is the last time we've had any reasonable city and road planners?? This virus has not changed my attitude at all as well - if anything, it's irked me suddenly it's more acceptable to discriminate your mobility status based on your economic and ideological standing. I was lucky enough to have had the chance to use buses under lockdown still due to my supply runs, and the experience hasn't scared me in particular. A mask is a small price to pay to be able to go on buses again. Rest of Europe they've also told people to wear them in shops, if not outside altogether. And people complied. And they actually did go round fining unruly people too. Why does UK have to always be the 'special one' when here it's not even that strict at all? As someone who comes from a different culture, I don't get why it's always such a problem... If ability to adhere to bus timetables is such a problem to you, then my sympathies 🤣 People have much bigger problems in life I think than having to wake up 30-60mins early or so. I've always been able to fit it round my needs and I'm only some young girl - I just don't get what's so hard? People have done it for years and it hasn't killed them. Heck, people in Poland are known to walk for miles if they must in case they've missed a last bus and aren't wusses that call taxis. Only excuses would be if you need a very early start and live somewhere with no night bus service - then I'd understand. Myself I deliberately live somewhere where service is excellent 24/7. And I can understand using your car to go outside London where bus services are limited or non-existent - then fine, 'tis a no brainer then. But to travel a journey that buses and trains already provide - just why?? What's stopping you? I'd have thought the price of a car, insurance, tax and fuel, way exceeds public transport pricing. It definitely appears to be the case from my angle 🤔 I suspect UK also has a mentality issue, thank Thatcher for that one, some crap she said nearly 40 years ago, goodness me - I thought everyone hated her so why listen to something she once said??? It baffles me to no end. For those who aren't sure what I'm referring to, it's the nonsense about being an alleged failure if you don't have a car by 25 or something - oh what a load of baloney! First of all what a biased way to judge someone. Two, coverage in London and several other UK cities is sufficient enough to do without a car. Been there, done that. Three, some of us actually think about the congestion and environment. These issues will not simply go away - if anything, if we don't change our mentality, they will only become amplified and our environment will become even more unbearable. Who the hell wants to sit in a car for hours stuck in traffic? As that's how pro-car future is going to look like. Heck it won't be me! Ever. Ever! And then certainly nobody is going to get anywhere! 😂 This virus and our useless government (ahem other European countries haven't demonised using public transport as much as UK has... And it shows) have struck an awful punch to the industry, but we've got to adapt to survive, and those who do, should pull through. We've got to bounce back or pay a dear price. Otherwise our children will be asking us all those years later, where the hell have we been when all this had been happening? At least I'll be able to tell mine (if they ever materialise) that my car is a bus 😎 [quite literally!] I disagree with the London is getting busier congestion etc. We have had this so much times before. But London is getting busier partly because it has been draining growth from other parts of the country . There are some roads 10 years ago now that doesn't even have traffic levels, while others are self inflicted by councils doing anti-car measures. For example, if you take Forest Rd/Ferry Lane in the 1990's the traffic was horrendous, now most of that traffic in the AM/PM peak has gone, even the bus lane that was put in after Blackhorse Rd station hasn't been needed that much as it used to. Whilst other places like Hoe St and Lea Bridge Rd that saw a drop in peak traffic has risen due to closing side roads, banned turns for cycling warfare. End of the day this has not helped bus passengers at all. Most of the traffic that buses used to have in Lea Bridge Rd which was a prime reason for the 38 being cut back to Clapton Pond. This started to fall and was manageable over the years, but since the mini Holland fettling, and bus lane removal, it had screwed over the 48, 55 and 56. Your point at what Thatcher said was what the general public thought back then. I do not know if you were born when Thatcher was around, but I clearly remember the times even before she said that, people used to say that all the time. I would rather sit in a car hours stuck in traffic than been sat in a bus hours stuck in traffic. The end reality is no matter how you put it, the vast majority of journeys in London, I can do quicker by car than by bus, regardless of traffic. Also who in their right mind would want to sit hours in a bus, car or any other vehicle stuck in traffic. People who generally do not drive a car or do not have one would come up with these statements as they cannot truly experience the flip side of the coin. I used to say these things before I passed by test 23 years ago. The way things are going and the way corporate companies get greedy and people get lazy, the future is likely to be driverless pods. It isn't public transport being demonised, it is common sense. I am sorry, but it doesn't take a genius not to realise that if someone had a virus like Covid 19 riding in a bus, train, taxi etc or whatever, even if it was a car share program would spread it. There is not much things to prevent it spreading.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2020 22:40:40 GMT
A car would have been nice, now I have a driveway. However, it’s still an expensive investment as I very rarely need to leave London, especially now. Anyway, I haven’t got my driving license, having failed four times (though doing one’s test in Wood Green and Tottenham does reduce your chances of passing...) I have no fear of public transport and have started making a few journeys very recently (I’m not going to go the route of justifying them as ‘essential’ because I don’t want to normalise this madness any longer) - I don’t have any opportunity to have prolonged contact with any vulnerable people, and I have more chance of being run over by a number 154 bus than dying of COVID-19 - and the 154 is on the opposite side of London to where I live. I agree with the sentiment that people have been scared off public transport - and it will be difficult to get patronage up. The masks do help people feel safer if anything, but god I hope that’s temporary. The hardest test centre in the mid90's was Wanstead; I passed my test there. Not sure if it is still the same, but it was even mentioned on the local London news and then many people didn't want to take their test there as it had the highest fail rate.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2020 22:45:02 GMT
Also shows how out of touch they were with reality. Unite is the most wasteful £20 a month I spend. The sooner crony McCluskey goes the better. I remember meeting McCluskey near on 20 years ago, some of the things I was saying to him about the bus industry then he didn't take seriously, now some of them he is saying now.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2020 22:48:17 GMT
Here’s what happened in my four tests. 1st test - rather unsettling examiner. Failed on the sharp turn from Bridport Road to Gloucester Road near North Middlesex Hospital (where the 444 runs). I took it too wide. 2nd test - miserable unfriendly examiner. Made a friendly joke and he didn’t take it well. On the Great Cambridge Road; needed to change lanes to turn right to... Wilbury Way (where the... you guessed it... 444 turns right)! A van behind flashes me to let me get into the lane. Apparently I was too close to the van (I really felt I wasn’t). 3rd test - very friendly examiner. Unfortunately cannot debate it, I failed 5 minutes into the test. Queen Street, near White Hart Lane station. Lots of cars suddenly appeared on this quiet. Pull over and pull out when you’re ready. As soon as I do (after a 5 minute wait) - I pull out and a fast car suddenly appears! I tell the instructor that I don’t wish to continue. 4th test - not a particularly friendly examiner; almost shouted at me when my address on my driving license was outdated. Perth Road, Wood Green. Turning onto Leith Road, a man was walking towards the crossing. He signalled letting me turn... then stepped onto the road the second I started turning. All different reasons for failure. Not my general driving but bad judgements of other people on two occasions. I can drive better than half the people in Wood Green/Tottenham anyway. I’ve had rather enough of these tests, mainly having to wait a month (it’s so hard to swoop in and nab earlier tests). I hope I can pass on the fifth. Don’t know why I bother to take tests in London when I have no intention of driving in the city. Maybe you may have taken the test too soon without enough lessons
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Post by vjaska on Jul 5, 2020 23:13:16 GMT
I may be late to the party, but let's break this pro-car rhetoric shall we I've had anti-car leanings for years and I'm not going to hide this. My Parents never got a car in the end (even though my Dad has a license) and having to rely on public transport for all these years has not exactly taken away from our dignity you know 🙄 We just get on with it instead of complaining all the time like many people here. Even if my Parents did own a car, I'd still not get chauffeured anywhere and be told to get the bus. For it's there, to be used! Suppose our Eastern European mentality is very different to here - which is quite ironic actually considering UK has a much better overall bus service; that is better ticketing (eg. multi-operator tickets - heck in Poland where I'm from you'd be lucky if they even sell you a return one!), overall coverage, consideration for all the DDA stuff such as low-floor (in PL your typical bus out of town would be a Sprinter), as well as emissions (I've read somewhere few years ago something like 20% of PSVs used in Poland were registered before year 2000 🤣) , and of course the lovely iconic double-decker buses being a commonplace chariot, whilst most we've got on the continent are bendy-buses, and that's only within cities. I mean the British bus user has so much facilities provided to them and they're still not happy 🙄 I've once had to travel on a nearly 3h long, 5-return-trips-a-day route using a Mercedes midibus that was packed to the windshield back in my country, which also turned up 43minutes late by the way - and despite such squalid conditions occuring, people still use public transport. While here if seats aren't comfortable enough, wifi doesn't work and there's no USB sockets, shock horror - here comes the uproar 🤣 If we keep getting more cars it's only going to cause more congestion, and London's tiny roads are already bursting, unable to facilitate the volumes. This city simply cannot sustain this level of traffic. It was night and day between what we've had right pre-Covid vs 10 years ago. Unacceptable it's been allowed to rise to this level imho. I don't care if these cars are going to be electric or hydrogen/whatever in few years - it may cut the fumes and pollution related afflictions and deaths yes, but still not going to help journey times. Look at the passenger-to-space ratio of a double-decker vs a car for crying out loud. There should be more bus lanes - somewhere like Kraków people who own cars are still known to get the bus into the city because of abundant bus lanes that cut down journey times massively - whilst cars sit there stuck for 1h+. But when is the last time we've had any reasonable city and road planners?? This virus has not changed my attitude at all as well - if anything, it's irked me suddenly it's more acceptable to discriminate your mobility status based on your economic and ideological standing. I was lucky enough to have had the chance to use buses under lockdown still due to my supply runs, and the experience hasn't scared me in particular. A mask is a small price to pay to be able to go on buses again. Rest of Europe they've also told people to wear them in shops, if not outside altogether. And people complied. And they actually did go round fining unruly people too. Why does UK have to always be the 'special one' when here it's not even that strict at all? As someone who comes from a different culture, I don't get why it's always such a problem... If ability to adhere to bus timetables is such a problem to you, then my sympathies 🤣 People have much bigger problems in life I think than having to wake up 30-60mins early or so. I've always been able to fit it round my needs and I'm only some young girl - I just don't get what's so hard? People have done it for years and it hasn't killed them. Heck, people in Poland are known to walk for miles if they must in case they've missed a last bus and aren't wusses that call taxis. Only excuses would be if you need a very early start and live somewhere with no night bus service - then I'd understand. Myself I deliberately live somewhere where service is excellent 24/7. And I can understand using your car to go outside London where bus services are limited or non-existent - then fine, 'tis a no brainer then. But to travel a journey that buses and trains already provide - just why?? What's stopping you? I'd have thought the price of a car, insurance, tax and fuel, way exceeds public transport pricing. It definitely appears to be the case from my angle 🤔 I suspect UK also has a mentality issue, thank Thatcher for that one, some crap she said nearly 40 years ago, goodness me - I thought everyone hated her so why listen to something she once said??? It baffles me to no end. For those who aren't sure what I'm referring to, it's the nonsense about being an alleged failure if you don't have a car by 25 or something - oh what a load of baloney! First of all what a biased way to judge someone. Two, coverage in London and several other UK cities is sufficient enough to do without a car. Been there, done that. Three, some of us actually think about the congestion and environment. These issues will not simply go away - if anything, if we don't change our mentality, they will only become amplified and our environment will become even more unbearable. Who the hell wants to sit in a car for hours stuck in traffic? As that's how pro-car future is going to look like. Heck it won't be me! Ever. Ever! And then certainly nobody is going to get anywhere! 😂 This virus and our useless government (ahem other European countries haven't demonised using public transport as much as UK has... And it shows) have struck an awful punch to the industry, but we've got to adapt to survive, and those who do, should pull through. We've got to bounce back or pay a dear price. Otherwise our children will be asking us all those years later, where the hell have we been when all this had been happening? At least I'll be able to tell mine (if they ever materialise) that my car is a bus 😎 [quite literally!] I disagree with the London is getting busier congestion etc. We have had this so much times before. But London is getting busier partly because it has been draining growth from other parts of the country . There are some roads 10 years ago now that doesn't even have traffic levels, while others are self inflicted by councils doing anti-car measures. For example, if you take Forest Rd/Ferry Lane in the 1990's the traffic was horrendous, now most of that traffic in the AM/PM peak has gone, even the bus lane that was put in after Blackhorse Rd station hasn't been needed that much as it used to. Whilst other places like Hoe St and Lea Bridge Rd that saw a drop in peak traffic has risen due to closing side roads, banned turns for cycling warfare. End of the day this has not helped bus passengers at all. Most of the traffic that buses used to have in Lea Bridge Rd which was a prime reason for the 38 being cut back to Clapton Pond. This started to fall and was manageable over the years, but since the mini Holland fettling, and bus lane removal, it had screwed over the 48, 55 and 56. Your point at what Thatcher said was what the general public thought back then. I do not know if you were born when Thatcher was around, but I clearly remember the times even before she said that, people used to say that all the time. I would rather sit in a car hours stuck in traffic than been sat in a bus hours stuck in traffic. The end reality is no matter how you put it, the vast majority of journeys in London, I can do quicker by car than by bus, regardless of traffic. Also who in their right mind would want to sit hours in a bus, car or any other vehicle stuck in traffic. People who generally do not drive a car or do not have one would come up with these statements as they cannot truly experience the flip side of the coin. I used to say these things before I passed by test 23 years ago. The way things are going and the way corporate companies get greedy and people get lazy, the future is likely to be driverless pods. It isn't public transport being demonised, it is common sense. I am sorry, but it doesn't take a genius not to realise that if someone had a virus like Covid 19 riding in a bus, train, taxi etc or whatever, even if it was a car share program would spread it. There is not much things to prevent it spreading. You can disagree about London getting more congested all you like but there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise - many studies into congestion and average speed vehicles actually travel will show you that congestion has continually risen and average speeds fallen. In my own area, roads have got much busier over the years and I know this because I remember all the times from the 90's when moving around Lambeth was much painless than now. Anti car measures are needed I'm afraid if you are to increase transport usage - the issue is the wrong anti car measures are being implemented. For example, removing bus lanes for cycle lanes is a poor move which discourages transport use whilst also narrowing roads, closing short cuts like what Lambeth have recently done is another poor move which merely shoves traffic onto the main roads making them more congested. Just because I don't drive a car has absolutely nothing to do with it - had I enough money, I'd of finished my lessons ages ago and passed but equally, it's clearly obvious that for short hops through London, the car should not be the go to choice.
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Post by george on Jul 5, 2020 23:54:47 GMT
There's been talk recently which is better car or public transport but I don't think it should be which is better it should be what is more suitable for your needs. If you live in a city then choosing to go on a bus would be good for you because you have the luxury of a frequent service but if you live outside in the countryside miles away from anywhere then getting public transport will be difficult so there a car would be better. It really isn't a one size fits all kind of thing.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 6, 2020 8:19:50 GMT
There's been talk recently which is better car or public transport but I don't think it should be which is better it should be what is more suitable for your needs. If you live in a city then choosing to go on a bus would be good for you because you have the luxury of a frequent service but if you live outside in the countryside miles away from anywhere then getting public transport will be difficult so there a car would be better. It really isn't a one size fits all kind of thing. The issues arise when public transport is a perfectly good option but people choose to use a car instead. In many cases this has caused services to decline to the point where they are no longer viable to operate. In the UK, cars are expensive to buy - hence they are less available to people in low incomes. However the operating costs of a car journey are relatively inexpensive - so for those who can afford to buy one in the first place, there is a stronger incentive to choose a car journey over public transport (and sometimes over walking/cycling). This creates the traffic problems that disadvantage us all. Germany has a higher car ownership rate per household, but Germans actually use their cars less - in fact one luxury car manufacturer once ran an ad which showed a suited businessman boarding a tram, the ad read something like "The man who is smart enough to own a [xxx] is smart enough to know when not to use it". Why can't we have that sort of attitude here?
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Post by george on Jul 6, 2020 9:07:04 GMT
There's been talk recently which is better car or public transport but I don't think it should be which is better it should be what is more suitable for your needs. If you live in a city then choosing to go on a bus would be good for you because you have the luxury of a frequent service but if you live outside in the countryside miles away from anywhere then getting public transport will be difficult so there a car would be better. It really isn't a one size fits all kind of thing. The issues arise when public transport is a perfectly good option but people choose to use a car instead. In many cases this has caused services to decline to the point where they are no longer viable to operate. In the UK, cars are expensive to buy - hence they are less available to people in low incomes. However the operating costs of a car journey are relatively inexpensive - so for those who can afford to buy one in the first place, there is a stronger incentive to choose a car journey over public transport (and sometimes over walking/cycling). This creates the traffic problems that disadvantage us all. Germany has a higher car ownership rate per household, but Germans actually use their cars less - in fact one luxury car manufacturer once ran an ad which showed a suited businessman boarding a tram, the ad read something like "The man who is smart enough to own a [xxx] is smart enough to know when not to use it". Why can't we have that sort of attitude here? If you are in a position where you live somewhere that has a good bus service then use that but people shouldn't be judged if that doesn't apply to them and for many that won't apply. It's easy for people who live in London to say "Well just use the bus" (I Know you don't live in London just using that as an example) but the fact remains bus services out of the city centres just aren't great. Yes you could say that if more people used the services then you could argue that these services would get better investment but people shouldn't work their lives around these bus services. Got a friend who lives in a village just outside of Buckingham so this isn't somewhere a million of miles away from London and the service there is one bus a day on either direction just on a Tuesday that's awful.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 6, 2020 9:37:39 GMT
The issues arise when public transport is a perfectly good option but people choose to use a car instead. In many cases this has caused services to decline to the point where they are no longer viable to operate. In the UK, cars are expensive to buy - hence they are less available to people in low incomes. However the operating costs of a car journey are relatively inexpensive - so for those who can afford to buy one in the first place, there is a stronger incentive to choose a car journey over public transport (and sometimes over walking/cycling). This creates the traffic problems that disadvantage us all. Germany has a higher car ownership rate per household, but Germans actually use their cars less - in fact one luxury car manufacturer once ran an ad which showed a suited businessman boarding a tram, the ad read something like "The man who is smart enough to own a [xxx] is smart enough to know when not to use it". Why can't we have that sort of attitude here? If you are in a position where you live somewhere that has a good bus service then use that but people shouldn't be judged if that doesn't apply to them and for many that won't apply. It's easy for people who live in London to say "Well just use the bus" (I Know you don't live in London just using that as an example) but the fact remains bus services out of the city centres just aren't great. Yes you could say that if more people used the services then you could argue that these services would get better investment but people shouldn't work their lives around these bus services. Got a friend who lives in a village just outside of Buckingham so this isn't somewhere a million of miles away from London and the service there is one bus a day on either direction just on a Tuesday that's awful. I'm not judging people who don't have a good bus service - there are areas of my home town that don't have convenient access to a bus service at all. If I have any judgement, it is towards those who do have a good bus (or tram or train) service - but go by car instead.
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