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Post by vjaska on Jul 7, 2021 16:26:34 GMT
Noticed on the 181 batch of vehicles there a notice inside the cab with - “Under No circumstances must this bus be driving on the 284 route - Due to risk of grounding (No Risk Assessment) Bit odd as the 284 batch are about 0.5m longer than the batch allocated to the 181. (181s are 10.4m and the 284s are 10.9m) Also abit odd as the batches are usually mixed up with each other on some days as I see daily being quite local to both routes. I’d assume it could be an old notice from when they started out after taking over from Metrobus Being pedantic, the 284 batch is 10.5m so even smaller difference and as you say, both routes mix regularly as they did under Metrobus when they both had Omnitowns & then when the 284 gained 13 reg Enviro 200’s and 181 continued with Omnitowns
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jul 10, 2021 10:37:43 GMT
I did read elsewhere that the 5 year contract for the 56 isn't fixed and there's a 2 year extension option but the 7 year one is indeed fixed for the 55, the 432 is also on a similar contract and I believe the 322 is too. These 7 year contracts are to do with electrics and to ensure maximum lifespan is taken out of them, although by the looks of it they're also being used on existing Hybrid bids case dependent to prevent a load of routes coming up at once which could need electrics and over-whelm manufacturers. The 56 would make sense on a fixed term 5 year contract so that the 61 plates WILL go in 2027. Not sure how an extension would work otherwise. I would be interested in reading the report and specification for removal of 2 year extensions, the new model offers less incentive to operators, it also assumes a full 14 year lifespan of vehicles and contracts being retained for 14 years in total for that maximum lifespan. I can understand the logic but it certainly does not seem fool proof, wonder how these will deal with inflation now the contracts are 1.4x longer. As I interpret it, as and when necessary, contracts may be shorter than 7 years like with the 56. Also, it could be agreed between the operator and TfL for other reasons than the age of the buses like with the 25.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 10, 2021 10:42:00 GMT
The 56 would make sense on a fixed term 5 year contract so that the 61 plates WILL go in 2027. Not sure how an extension would work otherwise. I would be interested in reading the report and specification for removal of 2 year extensions, the new model offers less incentive to operators, it also assumes a full 14 year lifespan of vehicles and contracts being retained for 14 years in total for that maximum lifespan. I can understand the logic but it certainly does not seem fool proof, wonder how these will deal with inflation now the contracts are 1.4x longer. As I interpret it, as and when necessary, contracts may be shorter than 7 years like with the 56. Also, it could be agreed between the operator and TfL for other reasons than the age of the buses like with the 25. I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere that the 56 is actually a fixed 5 year, so the 56 could still be extended for a 7 year contract which will still allow it to get Zero emissions before the deadline.
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 10, 2021 13:22:07 GMT
Bit odd as the 284 batch are about 0.5m longer than the batch allocated to the 181. (181s are 10.4m and the 284s are 10.9m) Also abit odd as the batches are usually mixed up with each other on some days as I see daily being quite local to both routes. I’d assume it could be an old notice from when they started out after taking over from Metrobus Being pedantic, the 284 batch is 10.5m so even smaller difference and as you say, both routes mix regularly as they did under Metrobus when they both had Omnitowns & then when the 284 gained 13 reg Enviro 200’s and 181 continued with Omnitowns Routes 181 & 284 the fleet is pretty much route bound to each route. The 10.9m buses rarely stray onto Route 284, KB fleet when they go to TL they appear on Routes 380 & P4. 10.5m is more suitable because of roads between Ravensborune Park and Chudleigh Road, under MB they were quite tight on the route, have seen drivers with 10.8m vehicles mount the pavement at MB no surprise they are route bound to Route 181 10.9m vehicles do not have the same circle as the shorter buses. It is not uncommon however for 10.5m buses to appear on Route 181. If you check the LVF the last 10.9m vehicle occurrence on Route 284 was 36695 on 12.05.2021.
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 10, 2021 13:38:34 GMT
As I interpret it, as and when necessary, contracts may be shorter than 7 years like with the 56. Also, it could be agreed between the operator and TfL for other reasons than the age of the buses like with the 25. I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere that the 56 is actually a fixed 5 year, so the 56 could still be extended for a 7 year contract which will still allow it to get Zero emissions before the deadline. From what I understand vehicles must be removed from a route before 16 years, if an extension was to be granted newer hybrid vehicles would need to replace them. The Hybrids on Route 56 were introduced on Route 15 early 2012 if I’m correct.
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Post by mkay315 on Jul 11, 2021 13:08:22 GMT
I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere that the 56 is actually a fixed 5 year, so the 56 could still be extended for a 7 year contract which will still allow it to get Zero emissions before the deadline. From what I understand vehicles must be removed from a route before 16 years, if an extension was to be granted newer hybrid vehicles would need to replace them. The Hybrids on Route 56 were introduced on Route 15 early 2012 if I’m correct. That is correct yes. As the 03-reg tridents on the 15 were given to the 241 and 147
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Post by elcesteem16 on Jul 11, 2021 14:44:04 GMT
Bit odd as the 284 batch are about 0.5m longer than the batch allocated to the 181. (181s are 10.4m and the 284s are 10.9m) Also abit odd as the batches are usually mixed up with each other on some days as I see daily being quite local to both routes. I’d assume it could be an old notice from when they started out after taking over from Metrobus Being pedantic, the 284 batch is 10.5m so even smaller difference and as you say, both routes mix regularly as they did under Metrobus when they both had Omnitowns & then when the 284 gained 13 reg Enviro 200’s and 181 continued with Omnitowns 10.4/5m ones are the 181s batch the 10.9m being the 284s (Was listed on a board in TL when I had a tour with a friend aha), either way yh the 181/284 have never struggled to share its batches between each from the days of MB sharing the Scania Esteems to some E200s from the 284 or even 126 ending up on the 181 or vice versa. Did the MMCs get some sorta call back a few years ago however due to suspension? I remember seeing somewhere here or on FB some MMCs had to have their suspensions readjusted.
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Post by elcesteem16 on Jul 11, 2021 14:46:35 GMT
Being pedantic, the 284 batch is 10.5m so even smaller difference and as you say, both routes mix regularly as they did under Metrobus when they both had Omnitowns & then when the 284 gained 13 reg Enviro 200’s and 181 continued with Omnitowns 10.4/5m ones are the 181s batch the 10.9m being the 284s (Was listed on a board in TL when I had a tour with a friend aha), either way yh the 181/284 have never struggled to share its batches between each from the days of MB sharing the Scania Esteems to some E200s from the 284 or even 126 ending up on the 181 or vice versa. Did the MMCs get some sorta call back a few years ago however due to suspension? I remember seeing somewhere here or on FB some MMCs had to have their suspensions readjusted. Though actually thinking about it things coulda changed from then so just ignore me on that 🤣
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Post by Londontransport3 on Jul 13, 2021 13:37:51 GMT
SLN ALX 400 17843 Now at BBPG
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Post by Pilot on Jul 13, 2021 14:24:23 GMT
Being pedantic, the 284 batch is 10.5m so even smaller difference and as you say, both routes mix regularly as they did under Metrobus when they both had Omnitowns & then when the 284 gained 13 reg Enviro 200’s and 181 continued with Omnitowns Routes 181 & 284 the fleet is pretty much route bound to each route. The 10.9m buses rarely stray onto Route 284, KB fleet when they go to TL they appear on Routes 380 & P4. 10.5m is more suitable because of roads between Ravensborune Park and Chudleigh Road, under MB they were quite tight on the route, have seen drivers with 10.8m vehicles mount the pavement at MB no surprise they are route bound to Route 181 10.9m vehicles do not have the same circle as the shorter buses. It is not uncommon however for 10.5m buses to appear on Route 181. If you check the LVF the last 10.9m vehicle occurrence on Route 284 was 36695 on 12.05.2021. It's just for the health and safety aspect of it, I think when the route was at MB the times were a bit less strict compared to how TFL is kinda trying to fight down on companies cutting corners on it.
Reality is, you can easily drive 181 fleet on 284 route without mounting any kerbs or grounding, but it's for times where it's busy and there are excessive amount of cars near schools, more overhang of the bus will be required to make turn, and if that is required then you might not be able to do so if there are vehicles parked nearby the turn and what not...at least I think so.
Does anyone know what the regs/fleet for TLs 160 and 180 new buses yet?
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Post by Londontransport3 on Jul 13, 2021 15:02:10 GMT
Routes 181 & 284 the fleet is pretty much route bound to each route. The 10.9m buses rarely stray onto Route 284, KB fleet when they go to TL they appear on Routes 380 & P4. 10.5m is more suitable because of roads between Ravensborune Park and Chudleigh Road, under MB they were quite tight on the route, have seen drivers with 10.8m vehicles mount the pavement at MB no surprise they are route bound to Route 181 10.9m vehicles do not have the same circle as the shorter buses. It is not uncommon however for 10.5m buses to appear on Route 181. If you check the LVF the last 10.9m vehicle occurrence on Route 284 was 36695 on 12.05.2021. It's just for the health and safety aspect of it, I think when the route was at MB the times were a bit less strict compared to how TFL is kinda trying to fight down on companies cutting corners on it.
Reality is, you can easily drive 181 fleet on 284 route without mounting any kerbs or grounding, but it's for times where it's busy and there are excessive amount of cars near schools, more overhang of the bus will be required to make turn, and if that is required then you might not be able to do so if there are vehicles parked nearby the turn and what not...at least I think so.
Does anyone know what the regs/fleet for TLs 160 and 180 new buses yet?
Nothing Yet regarding 160/180s but they should continue on from 14147... Being 14148+
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Post by YY13VKP on Jul 13, 2021 16:31:32 GMT
SLN ALX 400 17843 Now at BBPG Is this one of yours?
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 13, 2021 18:47:51 GMT
Routes 181 & 284 the fleet is pretty much route bound to each route. The 10.9m buses rarely stray onto Route 284, KB fleet when they go to TL they appear on Routes 380 & P4. 10.5m is more suitable because of roads between Ravensborune Park and Chudleigh Road, under MB they were quite tight on the route, have seen drivers with 10.8m vehicles mount the pavement at MB no surprise they are route bound to Route 181 10.9m vehicles do not have the same circle as the shorter buses. It is not uncommon however for 10.5m buses to appear on Route 181. If you check the LVF the last 10.9m vehicle occurrence on Route 284 was 36695 on 12.05.2021. It's just for the health and safety aspect of it, I think when the route was at MB the times were a bit less strict compared to how TFL is kinda trying to fight down on companies cutting corners on it.
Reality is, you can easily drive 181 fleet on 284 route without mounting any kerbs or grounding, but it's for times where it's busy and there are excessive amount of cars near schools, more overhang of the bus will be required to make turn, and if that is required then you might not be able to do so if there are vehicles parked nearby the turn and what not...at least I think so.
Does anyone know what the regs/fleet for TLs 160 and 180 new buses yet?
You have a point however at MB 10.8m Enviro 200s were allocated to both routes 126 & 284. Yes it’s possible to not mount the pavements however when it’s bad parking may have no choice, fixed bus stops also had to be put in as drivers were finding it difficult to stop. The most difficult I’ve seen drivers struggling is Bexhill Road left into Manwood Road and parking can be bad down there. Route 356 is another example where 10.8m vehicles have worked the route under MB and 10.2m Darts under Stagecoach, nothing longer than 9.0m has been on Route 356 since the days the Darts on Route P4. Previously 10.5m Omintowns. I imagine TFL specified SWB vehicles for the 2018 contract. However when MB first took over routes 181 & 284 10.8m Darts did the routes occasionally.
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Post by adl on Jul 13, 2021 22:20:47 GMT
As route 56 is receiving a PVR decrease of 3, I wonder if these may be used on another route such as the 215 releasing 3 E400s for the 667. That way the whole batch remains at T.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 13, 2021 22:37:35 GMT
As route 56 is receiving a PVR decrease of 3, I wonder if these may be used on another route such as the 215 releasing 3 E400s for the 667. That way the whole batch remains at T. I suspect the 257 would be chosen releasing the couple of diesels allocated for use elsewhere
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