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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 6, 2020 17:46:00 GMT
Alongside the report that RATP have already ordered around 130ish BYD buses for next year could put a lot of strain on them for next Autumn, unless Stagecoach also prepared a provisional order I could see a hefty delay to a Stagecoach BYD order or they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Would be quite funny if they end up going for the Caetano Decker or maybe even the Volvo electric MCV Decker. Despite being a solid ADL company they did take the first production Gemini 3s for London so would be funny if similar happened with electrics albeit with a different type. The reason why they bought those 32 weights now with Arriva London was due to a huge ADL order book at that time. ADL, now build Electric DDS at Falkirk as of the 173/174 batch.. They'll use the current buses, but they won't go outside there family... ADL body the buses at Falkirk, thats no issue. The issue lies with the capacity of the chassis plant at Hungary which is limited to 100 buses every 3 months.
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Post by ADH45258 on Dec 6, 2020 17:56:17 GMT
Might not be ADLs, but BYDs capacity to deliver more is questionable/unknown Alongside the report that RATP have already ordered around 130ish BYD buses for next year could put a lot of strain on them for next Autumn, unless Stagecoach also prepared a provisional order I could see a hefty delay to a Stagecoach BYD order or they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Would be quite funny if they end up going for the Caetano Decker or maybe even the Volvo electric MCV Decker. Despite being a solid ADL company they did take the first production Gemini 3s for London so would be funny if similar happened with electrics albeit with a different type. I think Metroline's 14reg VWHs might have been before the Stagecoach examples. I expect Stagecoach will be able to order BYDs, unless maybe if the 160 and/or 180 can not take the 10.9m vehicle length, in which case I think they would go with Optare, having ordered some electric Optare SDs outside of London.
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Post by cl54 on Dec 6, 2020 19:20:55 GMT
Alongside the report that RATP have already ordered around 130ish BYD buses for next year could put a lot of strain on them for next Autumn, unless Stagecoach also prepared a provisional order I could see a hefty delay to a Stagecoach BYD order or they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Would be quite funny if they end up going for the Caetano Decker or maybe even the Volvo electric MCV Decker. Despite being a solid ADL company they did take the first production Gemini 3s for London so would be funny if similar happened with electrics albeit with a different type. The reason why they bought those 32 weights now with Arriva London was due to a huge ADL order book at that time. ADL, now build Electric DDS at Falkirk as of the 173/174 batch.. They'll use the current buses, but they won't go outside there family... The reason for choosing ADL buses was that Brian Souter had a shareholding in the company. This is no longer the case. It really does come down to price, delivery and support.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2020 19:58:52 GMT
Alongside the report that RATP have already ordered around 130ish BYD buses for next year could put a lot of strain on them for next Autumn, unless Stagecoach also prepared a provisional order I could see a hefty delay to a Stagecoach BYD order or they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Would be quite funny if they end up going for the Caetano Decker or maybe even the Volvo electric MCV Decker. Despite being a solid ADL company they did take the first production Gemini 3s for London so would be funny if similar happened with electrics albeit with a different type. I think Metroline's 14reg VWHs might have been before the Stagecoach examples. I expect Stagecoach will be able to order BYDs, unless maybe if the 160 and/or 180 can not take the 10.9m vehicle length, in which case I think they would go with Optare, having ordered some electric Optare SDs outside of London. As others have said, there may be capacity issues with BYD in their Hungarian plant which if true would likely be the issue that would scupper ADL vehicles - the 180 used 10.7m VWL’s for many years whilst the 160 has seen many instances of 10.8m Enviro 200’s under Arriva so cannot see length being an issue
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 6, 2020 20:11:56 GMT
Alongside the report that RATP have already ordered around 130ish BYD buses for next year could put a lot of strain on them for next Autumn, unless Stagecoach also prepared a provisional order I could see a hefty delay to a Stagecoach BYD order or they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Would be quite funny if they end up going for the Caetano Decker or maybe even the Volvo electric MCV Decker. Despite being a solid ADL company they did take the first production Gemini 3s for London so would be funny if similar happened with electrics albeit with a different type. I think Metroline's 14reg VWHs might have been before the Stagecoach examples. I expect Stagecoach will be able to order BYDs, unless maybe if the 160 and/or 180 can not take the 10.9m vehicle length, in which case I think they would go with Optare, having ordered some electric Optare SDs outside of London. Stagecoach's 14reg were certainly the first examples, I believe they entered service around May time while the Metroline ones only entered service in August.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 6, 2020 20:14:39 GMT
The reason why they bought those 32 weights now with Arriva London was due to a huge ADL order book at that time. ADL, now build Electric DDS at Falkirk as of the 173/174 batch.. They'll use the current buses, but they won't go outside there family... The reason for choosing ADL buses was that Brian Souter had a shareholding in the company. This is no longer the case. It really does come down to price, delivery and support. Souter still holds shares in the company, just NFI group have overall control. www.briansouter.com/media-centre/souter-investments-completes-sale-of-alexander-dennis-limited-to-nfi-group/
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Post by galwhv69 on Dec 6, 2020 23:30:40 GMT
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2020 16:14:43 GMT
No indication yet but like yourself, I think they’ll stick to ADL. They'll be ADL BYD and nothing else,no chance of any Optare products ever. Metroline, may order the new MCV Evo Electric which is due out 1 yr from now!!! They previously ordered Optare buses with the Tempo hybrid single decks on the 276, and the Versa on the 369.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2020 16:18:36 GMT
Alongside the report that RATP have already ordered around 130ish BYD buses for next year could put a lot of strain on them for next Autumn, unless Stagecoach also prepared a provisional order I could see a hefty delay to a Stagecoach BYD order or they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Would be quite funny if they end up going for the Caetano Decker or maybe even the Volvo electric MCV Decker. Despite being a solid ADL company they did take the first production Gemini 3s for London so would be funny if similar happened with electrics albeit with a different type. I have no evidence, but I heard (and could be canteen talk garbage) the RATP order was placed months ago, in form of about 30-40 buses confirmed plus large numbers of options. If so they might start arriving as early as April. I suspect Stagecoach are a VIP customer for ADL, (due to volumes) so probably get some of the build slots, even if RATP have now ordered nearer 150-160 buses (adding the spares and 49 requirements) they would not have been given production line exclusivity. Quite simply ADL would have left a proportion of build slots free, I am guessing 30-40% were not allocated to RATP simply because it is commercial suicide to have to turn away all your regular customers because you can’t deliver even small requirements. What will become a problem is if companies like Stagecoach also want dozens of new electric buses for cities like Manchester, or National Express wants follow on orders for Birmingham etc. If the rumoured maximum 400 BYD chassis per year are a limiting factor then total orders could exceed 400. I suppose ADL could ration electric single decks if more profitable double decks orders exist. IIRC Stagecoach has shares in ADL. Not sure if directly or via Brian Souter.
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Post by cl54 on Dec 9, 2020 18:20:37 GMT
I have no evidence, but I heard (and could be canteen talk garbage) the RATP order was placed months ago, in form of about 30-40 buses confirmed plus large numbers of options. If so they might start arriving as early as April. I suspect Stagecoach are a VIP customer for ADL, (due to volumes) so probably get some of the build slots, even if RATP have now ordered nearer 150-160 buses (adding the spares and 49 requirements) they would not have been given production line exclusivity. Quite simply ADL would have left a proportion of build slots free, I am guessing 30-40% were not allocated to RATP simply because it is commercial suicide to have to turn away all your regular customers because you can’t deliver even small requirements. What will become a problem is if companies like Stagecoach also want dozens of new electric buses for cities like Manchester, or National Express wants follow on orders for Birmingham etc. If the rumoured maximum 400 BYD chassis per year are a limiting factor then total orders could exceed 400. I suppose ADL could ration electric single decks if more profitable double decks orders exist. IIRC Stagecoach has shares in ADL. Not sure if directly or via Brian Souter. ADL has been sold. As noted above Souter still has shareholding but the level has not been stated,
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 18:51:41 GMT
IIRC Stagecoach has shares in ADL. Not sure if directly or via Brian Souter. ADL has been sold. As noted above Souter still has shareholding but the level has not been stated, I’m not sure he does, his investment company Souter Investments shows they sold their shares and exited the investment in May 2019 which was when ADL was sold to NFI with no new investment in NFI. Just looking at the list of top ten NFI shareholders I don’t see any companies connected to Brian Souter so I would conclude that he no longer holds shares in NFI.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 9, 2020 18:55:24 GMT
ADL has been sold. As noted above Souter still has shareholding but the level has not been stated, I’m not sure he does, his investment company Souter Investments shows they sold their shares and exited the investment in May 2019 which was when ADL was sold to NFI with no new investment in NFI. Just looking at the list of top ten NFI shareholders I don’t see any companies connected to Brian Souter so I would conclude that he no longer holds shares in NFI. Souter's shares in the NFI group are not nearly as large to be in the top 10 shareholders, but he does hold shares www.briansouter.com/media-centre/souter-investments-completes-sale-of-alexander-dennis-limited-to-nfi-group/
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 19:45:35 GMT
I’m not sure he does, his investment company Souter Investments shows they sold their shares and exited the investment in May 2019 which was when ADL was sold to NFI with no new investment in NFI. Just looking at the list of top ten NFI shareholders I don’t see any companies connected to Brian Souter so I would conclude that he no longer holds shares in NFI. Souter's shares in the NFI group are not nearly as large to be in the top 10 shareholders, but he does hold shares www.briansouter.com/media-centre/souter-investments-completes-sale-of-alexander-dennis-limited-to-nfi-group/If he does have a holding it must be less than 1% as the smallest I could find reference to was around 1.2%. Since it isn’t listed on the Souter Investments website it must be held privately by him and not the investment company.
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Post by cl54 on Dec 10, 2020 20:10:56 GMT
ADL has been sold. As noted above Souter still has shareholding but the level has not been stated, I’m not sure he does, his investment company Souter Investments shows they sold their shares and exited the investment in May 2019 which was when ADL was sold to NFI with no new investment in NFI. Just looking at the list of top ten NFI shareholders I don’t see any companies connected to Brian Souter so I would conclude that he no longer holds shares in NFI. That was my original statement on this thread. Somebody posted about the press release at the time which indicated Souter Investments would retain an unspecified holding. I think your search indicates the current position.
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Post by tbmlondon on Dec 18, 2020 20:13:49 GMT
14101-29 have now been registered on LVF:
14101 LF70YTV 14102 LF70YTW 14103 LF70YTX 14104 LF70YTY 14105 LF70YTZ 14106 LF70YUA 14107 LF70YUB 14108 LF70YUC 14109 LF70YUD 14110 LF70YUE 14111 LF70YUG 14112 LF70YUH 14113 LF70YUJ 14114 LF70YUK 14115 LF70YUL 14116 LF70YUN 14117 LF70YUO 14118 LF70YUR 14119 LF70YUS 14120 LF70YUU 14121 LF70YUV 14122 LF70YUW 14123 LF70YUX 14124 LF70YUY 14125 LF70YVA 14126 LF70YVB 14127 LF70YVC 14128 LF70YVD 14129 LF70YVE
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