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Post by COBO on Jul 18, 2022 19:03:03 GMT
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 18, 2022 19:36:21 GMT
interesting , remember a while back TfL stated it would be cheaper to convert whole garages to electric, rather than on a route by route basis. Wonder if this will see a new policy implemented. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 18, 2022 19:43:11 GMT
interesting , remember a while back TfL stated it would be cheaper to convert whole garages to electric, rather than on a route by route basis. Wonder if this will see a new policy implemented. What I find more interesting that back in 2017 TfL identified that part of Wood Green garage could become of a Crossrail 2 construction site. Presumably the potential sites are also safeguarded from development as the route is currently. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 18, 2022 19:46:08 GMT
interesting , remember a while back TfL stated it would be cheaper to convert whole garages to electric, rather than on a route by route basis. Wonder if this will see a new policy implemented. What I find more interesting that back in 2017 TfL identified that part of Wood Green garage could become of a Crossrail 2 construction site. Presumably the potential sites are also safeguarded from development as the route is currently. If it gets redeveloped, presumably that will no longer be the case, if it is currently true. |
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Post by VWH1413 on Jul 18, 2022 21:35:56 GMT
An interesting development for sure that this (WN) re-development is on the cards even if not 100%. Will be very curious how this develops and will be an good for Arriva to convert more of their routes to electrics, as they will have quite an large array of double deckers that will be 12-13+ years old in that time. And just in time for route 29 contract renewal( assuming Arriva will keep the route as usual?).
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 19, 2022 3:24:04 GMT
Wood Green (WN) looks to be set for a total rebuild. Arriva London's Directors have issued an Employee Notice, which states that the Property Team are developing proposals for the entire Wood Green Garage site. The plan is to rebuild as an all-electric garage, with new facilities for drivers, engineers and office staff. The garage would also make use of the space above by building upwards. Because of the need to consult with stakeholder groups and obtain planning permissions, work is unlikely to commence before the end of 2024. It does mean that routes and drivers will need to relocate to other Arriva sites whilst the rebuilding work takes place (pointless speculating where at this stage, although that won't stop people!). The Employee Notice has been posted on this thread: groups.google.com/g/londonstransport/c/zSWfyUrO3j0 I did say here a few months ago when someone posted the garage was going to close etc. it was a nonsense. Before covid, there was inspection work done at the garage for electrification. Then earlier in the year there was surveying and ground works carried out at the garage, regarding electrification and underpinning, with charge to grid. The 184 was another route lost which the company had also bid for with electrics, but price was higher. I personally do not see the point in doing this as what has happened at other garages, but I guess one of the reasons is to make back money out of it. I was also led to believe that there was an opportunity for apartments above the garage, but did not think that would have gone down well as what happened at [T] |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 19, 2022 3:26:20 GMT
interesting , remember a while back TfL stated it would be cheaper to convert whole garages to electric, rather than on a route by route basis. Wonder if this will see a new policy implemented. What I find more interesting that back in 2017 TfL identified that part of Wood Green garage could become of a Crossrail 2 construction site. Presumably the potential sites are also safeguarded from development as the route is currently. It is still on the cards, the plan is to use the car park section where the head office building is, to use for a shaft for the next end of the platform. That would not be touched as I am sure it is safeguarded. Once crossrail2 is finished than that would come back within Arriva. |
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 19, 2022 18:52:14 GMT
Wood Green (WN) looks to be set for a total rebuild. Arriva London's Directors have issued an Employee Notice, which states that the Property Team are developing proposals for the entire Wood Green Garage site. The plan is to rebuild as an all-electric garage, with new facilities for drivers, engineers and office staff. The garage would also make use of the space above by building upwards. Because of the need to consult with stakeholder groups and obtain planning permissions, work is unlikely to commence before the end of 2024. It does mean that routes and drivers will need to relocate to other Arriva sites whilst the rebuilding work takes place (pointless speculating where at this stage, although that won't stop people!). The Employee Notice has been posted on this thread: groups.google.com/g/londonstransport/c/zSWfyUrO3j0 I did say here a few months ago when someone posted the garage was going to close etc. it was a nonsense. Before covid, there was inspection work done at the garage for electrification. Then earlier in the year there was surveying and ground works carried out at the garage, regarding electrification and underpinning, with charge to grid. The 184 was another route lost which the company had also bid for with electrics, but price was higher. I personally do not see the point in doing this as what has happened at other garages, but I guess one of the reasons is to make back money out of it. I was also led to believe that there was an opportunity for apartments above the garage, but did not think that would have gone down well as what happened at [T] Winkworth can advertise any apartments as "Close to transport links"  I don't know why they don't electrify Stamford Hill and start running electrics from there, Tottenham could transfer some of their buses like 243 and 149 there, and the bulk of Wood Green's routes go to Tottenham whilst any construction work takes place. (W4 passes AR, might as well return there) As good as these plans are, I don't know why broke TfL are so pushing the green agenda when the cupboard is bare. A lot can change with people's transport habits and usage, as we've seen in 2020  |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 19, 2022 19:00:32 GMT
I did say here a few months ago when someone posted the garage was going to close etc. it was a nonsense. Before covid, there was inspection work done at the garage for electrification. Then earlier in the year there was surveying and ground works carried out at the garage, regarding electrification and underpinning, with charge to grid. The 184 was another route lost which the company had also bid for with electrics, but price was higher. I personally do not see the point in doing this as what has happened at other garages, but I guess one of the reasons is to make back money out of it. I was also led to believe that there was an opportunity for apartments above the garage, but did not think that would have gone down well as what happened at [T] Winkworth can advertise any apartments as "Close to transport links" I don't know why they don't electrify Stamford Hill and start running electrics from there, Tottenham could transfer some of their buses like 243 and 149 there, and the bulk of Wood Green's routes go to Tottenham whilst any construction work takes place. (W4 passes AR, might as well return there) As good as these plans are, I don't know why broke TfL are so pushing the green agenda when the cupboard is bare. A lot can change with people's transport habits and usage, as we've seen in 2020 I don't think TfL are the ones pushing the green agenda, Arriva have just seen an opportunity and have decided to make the most of it. WN itself is in a very uncompetitive place and many routes like the 29 are very unlikely to be lost. Although could all backfire though and Arriva just end up losing everything as the new garage has far too much overhead cost associated with making back the building cost. |
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Post by yunus on Jul 19, 2022 20:13:48 GMT
Winkworth can advertise any apartments as "Close to transport links" I don't know why they don't electrify Stamford Hill and start running electrics from there, Tottenham could transfer some of their buses like 243 and 149 there, and the bulk of Wood Green's routes go to Tottenham whilst any construction work takes place. (W4 passes AR, might as well return there) As good as these plans are, I don't know why broke TfL are so pushing the green agenda when the cupboard is bare. A lot can change with people's transport habits and usage, as we've seen in 2020 I don't think TfL are the ones pushing the green agenda, Arriva have just seen an opportunity and have decided to make the most of it. WN itself is in a very uncompetitive place and many routes like the 29 are very unlikely to be lost. Although could all backfire though and Arriva just end up losing everything as the new garage has far too much overhead cost associated with making back the building cost. Everything will eventually go Electric or Hydrogen but in one word altogether Zero Emission, so I can't see how it would backfire? In addition, I can see more bus garages converting in one go rather than route - by - route basis & it's also cheaper to save with bulk vehicle orders. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 19, 2022 21:05:24 GMT
I don't think TfL are the ones pushing the green agenda, Arriva have just seen an opportunity and have decided to make the most of it. WN itself is in a very uncompetitive place and many routes like the 29 are very unlikely to be lost. Although could all backfire though and Arriva just end up losing everything as the new garage has far too much overhead cost associated with making back the building cost. Everything will eventually go Electric or Hydrogen but in one word altogether Zero Emission, so I can't see how it would backfire? In addition, I can see more bus garages converting in one go rather than route - by - route basis & it's also cheaper to save with bulk vehicle orders. Very easy to backfire, building works overrun, garage costs underestimated etc. |
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Post by WH241 on Jul 19, 2022 21:14:49 GMT
I don't think TfL are the ones pushing the green agenda, Arriva have just seen an opportunity and have decided to make the most of it. WN itself is in a very uncompetitive place and many routes like the 29 are very unlikely to be lost. Although could all backfire though and Arriva just end up losing everything as the new garage has far too much overhead cost associated with making back the building cost. Everything will eventually go Electric or Hydrogen but in one word altogether Zero Emission, so I can't see how it would backfire? In addition, I can see more bus garages converting in one go rather than route - by - route basis & it's also cheaper to save with bulk vehicle orders. Not always as simple as just convert a whole garage to electric. The garage could have several hybrids routes that might not be practical to operate elsewhere. Even buying in bulk electric buses stil have a large premium and ultimately TfL pay for this in the tender price. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 19, 2022 21:19:00 GMT
Everything will eventually go Electric or Hydrogen but in one word altogether Zero Emission, so I can't see how it would backfire? In addition, I can see more bus garages converting in one go rather than route - by - route basis & it's also cheaper to save with bulk vehicle orders. Very easy to backfire, building works overrun, garage costs underestimated etc. Depends, it they keep the rights to whatever is built above it ... could be a nice little earner. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 19, 2022 21:20:19 GMT
Everything will eventually go Electric or Hydrogen but in one word altogether Zero Emission, so I can't see how it would backfire? In addition, I can see more bus garages converting in one go rather than route - by - route basis & it's also cheaper to save with bulk vehicle orders. Not always as simple as just convert a whole garage to electric. The garage could have several hybrids routes that might not be practical to operate elsewhere. Even buying in bulk electric buses stil have a large premium and ultimately TfL pay for this in the tender price. As we gave seen with the bus cuts, hybrids are easy to move. Lets be honest, it will be backend of 2025, start of 2026 before this is complete .... can see tenders being awarded with Electrics when infrastructure ready, as we have seen elsewhere. By this time probably be withdrawing everything up to 12-reg .... so plenty to withdraw in the Arriva fleet. Also possible Arriva has received some kind of grant due to its green credentials. So we do not know how bigger risk it is or isn't. |
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Post by WH241 on Jul 19, 2022 21:25:13 GMT
Not always as simple as just convert a whole garage to electric. The garage could have several hybrids routes that might not be practical to operate elsewhere. Even buying in bulk electric buses stil have a large premium and ultimately TfL pay for this in the tender price. As we gave seen with the bus cuts, hybrids are easy to move. Yes hybrids are east to move but my point was if a garage fully converts some existing routes might need to move elsewhere as an operator is very unlikely to buy electric uses for a mid contract route on the off chance it will be retained. |
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