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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2024 10:41:24 GMT
According to LOTS EE1-30 will be the fleet codes for the E400EVs and ED1-66 for the BD11s I won't be surprised if people are not bothered by this but thinking about this, Route 196 will be creating another unique history with Alexander Dennis again regarding the Enviro 400s. In 2006 route 196 was the first in south london area under London General/Go-Ahead to debut the 1st gen E400s. Now this route is going to the first again to debut the all-new integral E400 in EV form once Arriva Norwood takes over. “History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes” – Mark Twain. Well the first ones to be in South London were the ones on the 24. As the 24 does go into South London. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2024 10:45:34 GMT
My thoughts too, I'd be more interested in the interior, what it's like to ride in, and how safe it is, all of those over what it looks like. This is a bus, not a top-of-the-range luxury car (many of which are also plug-ugly). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, look at Toyota. As a brand their cars are some of the ugliest on the market today but they still shifted over 1m of the things with a 7% increase globally. Clearly some people love them but I think they are over styled and cars I would lovingly describe as “pre-dented” given the number of sharp lines and dips in the bodywork. Come to think of it perhaps the ADL strategy is also to have the “pre-dented” look to reduce future costs on panel work. 😂 Toyota ugly? I do not think you have seen the current state of BMW's that takes ugly to a new extreme |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2024 10:47:51 GMT
Maybe you need glasses? I’ve heard specsavers are good  BD11s closest comparison would be a blob fish and even that may outdo it in a competition. ADL on the other hand have designed a sleek and future styled bus. I’ve got to agree with others here and hope the orders dry up like the Sahara desert for these monstrosities. Maybe it could compete for the ugliest thing going and win that. Even though they look ugly I disagree some variety is good… 2006 onwards was very boring ADL and Wright Gemini 2s as long as no more Opscares are ordered I have nothing to else to say. I have to say though as much as I dislike the rat screeching in DLAs Streatham to Brixton has never been the same! When the E400 came out, I liked them, looked a world away, compared to the retro styled ALX400/200 with large circle headlights. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2024 10:59:32 GMT
Even though they look ugly I disagree some variety is good… 2006 onwards was very boring ADL and Wright Gemini 2s as long as no more Opscares are ordered I have nothing to else to say. I have to say though as much as I dislike the rat screeching in DLAs Streatham to Brixton has never been the same! Out of curiosity have you driven a DLA before. How did you find it if you have from a drivers perspective? I've heard mixed reviews about that. Some drivers hated them and other loved it. But I think the hate was more for the low height ones S and T reg The first low floor double deckers were crap imo. They were slow and cumbersome. When you compare it to the Dennis Arrow, Volvo Olympian, Scania N113, they were crap. Only the interior was a world away. The first DLA's of the R/S reg low height models were slow and plagued with faults and bad design and seemed to be rushed, just to get the bus in service to please the likes of London Transport etc. In the winter they were freezing as they never had boost pumps to push the coolant to the heater matrix at the front so the drivers cab was barely even warm. The door operation with the halt brake and lowering the bus was annoying. Overload sensors that if the bus was too heavy would crawl at flywheel speed. You then had to offload a certain amount of passengers then also switch engine off and isolate it to reset it! There was so many individual buttons for the same function that made the dashboard then look like you were driving a space shuttle from the 1950's. The pick up in 1st gear was so slow, even to get up to 30mph took a lifetime. Plus IIRC they had drum brakes all around and with a full load it felt as though you had to stand on the brakes to get the bus to stop. Later ones had discs at front which improved the braking a bit. The DLA's improved a bit with the V/W reg examples, although still had massive turbo lag. The best ones were the euro 3 engined ones from 2003, this is what they should have been like from day one. Ultimately it took until the first DB300 for the bus to be back to the driving feel of a bus like a Volvo Olympian era. I.e. DW201 onwards. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2024 11:03:00 GMT
Only as a training bus and I must say what a huge steering wheel and braking well that’s just say this start early or harsh braking! They were nothing like the DAFs the 492 had I quite liked those and managed to get a few on the 160 before they were withdrawn. DLA623 did come to DT to cover the 160s refurbishments but instead T162 came over instead to cover them. Oh I see. Those low height DLAs were the bane of my life especially sitting upstairs when I used to take the 242 from Dalston around 2007-08 and constantly banging my head on the ceiling and even getting on one earlier this year at East Grinstead I had to crouch getting downstairs as I forgot how low it was 😂😂 You lucky you didn't ride on the route 257 East Lancs Dominator or Eastern National Bristol VRT's |
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 9, 2024 11:07:28 GMT
The codes for Arriva's ADL deckers are messy - T stood for Trident but only T1-193 carried that classification. Then along came HA & HT when they are identical vehicles - HA was hybrid Alexander which is fine but HT is hybrid  (surely not Trident) which is questionable. EA & ET would continue that despite the two vehicles being totally different and the T having no relevance just like the T in HT also makes no sense. ET would follow HT but the T really doesn't seem relevant at this point. For me, the HT's should of continued the HA code and the EE's should be coded EA's - keeps it simpler IMO & the code matches the type of vehicle. Well it is the ED (Engineering Director) who gives the codes  , if I tell him your suggestions, he would probably start laughing DW was nicknamed Don’t Work when we first got them at DT  |
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 9, 2024 11:07:29 GMT
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, look at Toyota. As a brand their cars are some of the ugliest on the market today but they still shifted over 1m of the things with a 7% increase globally. Clearly some people love them but I think they are over styled and cars I would lovingly describe as “pre-dented” given the number of sharp lines and dips in the bodywork. Come to think of it perhaps the ADL strategy is also to have the “pre-dented” look to reduce future costs on panel work. 😂 Toyota ugly? I do not think you have seen the current state of BMW's that takes ugly to a new extreme The grilles are a bit much on the latest BMWs but my point was we all see different things as beautiful. It’s why someone can see art and have it change their lives whilst others think it is complete crap. |
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Post by M1104 on Dec 9, 2024 11:11:26 GMT
I did say this to people that imagine if all of those people that slated the BD11 ends up loving them. I will judge the experience when it touches the road in live service 😁 I still think it looks horrid though. I thought the same about LTs until I drove one on Route 137 however they still look horrid. For me it's the frog eyed headlights that spoil it for me with the LTs, the rest of its appearance I'm ok with. Would have loved retrofitted DB300 style headlights as part of their refurb upgrades. 😁 I'm told a lot of Abellio and Go Ahead drivers also love driving them...though a few add "when they're working properly" |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 9, 2024 11:22:01 GMT
A demonstrator E400EV EE should be at [N] this week
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Post by redexpress on Dec 9, 2024 11:43:35 GMT
I won't be surprised if people are not bothered by this but thinking about this, Route 196 will be creating another unique history with Alexander Dennis again regarding the Enviro 400s. In 2006 route 196 was the first in south london area under London General/Go-Ahead to debut the 1st gen E400s. Now this route is going to the first again to debut the all-new integral E400 in EV form once Arriva Norwood takes over. “History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes” – Mark Twain. Well the first ones to be in South London were the ones on the 24. As the 24 does go into South London. 24 doesn't cross the river - at least not in service. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Dec 9, 2024 12:19:17 GMT
Oh I see. Those low height DLAs were the bane of my life especially sitting upstairs when I used to take the 242 from Dalston around 2007-08 and constantly banging my head on the ceiling and even getting on one earlier this year at East Grinstead I had to crouch getting downstairs as I forgot how low it was 😂😂 You lucky you didn't ride on the route 257 East Lancs Dominator or Eastern National Bristol VRT's I did funny enough in the 90s I think the 365 at one point had some from DM but I stayed downstairs |
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Post by sp17 on Dec 9, 2024 16:37:29 GMT
Even though they look ugly I disagree some variety is good… 2006 onwards was very boring ADL and Wright Gemini 2s as long as no more Opscares are ordered I have nothing to else to say. I have to say though as much as I dislike the rat screeching in DLAs Streatham to Brixton has never been the same! When the E400 came out, I liked them, looked a world away, compared to the retro styled ALX400/200 with large circle headlights. If my memory serves me correct the E400 was designed by a bunch of former ELC employees; and you can see the design cues in the Optare Rapta and MMC. |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 9, 2024 16:51:24 GMT
When the E400 came out, I liked them, looked a world away, compared to the retro styled ALX400/200 with large circle headlights. If my memory serves me correct the E400 was designed by a bunch of former ELC employees; and you can see the design cues in the Optare Rapta and MMC. Wow just looking at the Rapta, a vehicle I so wanted to see come to fruition at the time, I never would never have made the Rapta MMC comparison, but you can definitely see MMC shades in it. Were they really ELC staff? Timing would suggest it was more and Optare heritage vehicle than ELC? Styling also says more Optare than ELC. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 9, 2024 17:07:20 GMT
If my memory serves me correct the E400 was designed by a bunch of former ELC employees; and you can see the design cues in the Optare Rapta and MMC. Wow just looking at the Rapta, a vehicle I so wanted to see come to fruition at the time, I never would never have made the Rapta MMC comparison, but you can definitely see MMC shades in it. Were they really ELC staff? Timing would suggest it was more and Optare heritage vehicle than ELC? Styling also says more Optare than ELC. The Rapta was a good looking vehicle, can't say the same for the Solo+ at the time though - they found a way to take the classic Solo and butcher it, particularly the front end. |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 9, 2024 17:25:46 GMT
Wow just looking at the Rapta, a vehicle I so wanted to see come to fruition at the time, I never would never have made the Rapta MMC comparison, but you can definitely see MMC shades in it. Were they really ELC staff? Timing would suggest it was more and Optare heritage vehicle than ELC? Styling also says more Optare than ELC. The Rapta was a good looking vehicle, can't say the same for the Solo+ at the time though - they found a way to take the classic Solo and butcher it, particularly the front end. The Solo+ was just taking the Rapta styling and applying it to the Solo. I personally preferred it to the SR which became the new shaped Solo. Have never been a fan of the bulge Optare models, Solo SR or Versa. |
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BD11s closest comparison would be a blob fish and even that may outdo it in a competition. ADL on the other hand have designed a sleek and future styled bus. I’ve got to agree with others here and hope the orders dry up like the Sahara desert for these monstrosities. Maybe it could compete for the ugliest thing going and win that.
(surely not Trident) which is questionable. EA & ET would continue that despite the two vehicles being totally different and the T having no relevance just like the T in HT also makes no sense. ET would follow HT but the T really doesn't seem relevant at this point.
, if I tell him your suggestions, he would probably start laughing
