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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jan 20, 2021 8:45:08 GMT
Changes to buses in Ruislip, Uxbridge & Hayes areas Route U1 | Restructed to operate via current Route U7 from Hillingdon Hospital to Hayes Sainsbury's | Route U2 | Re-routed via current Route U1 from Pield Heath Road to West Drayton and Route U5 to Mulberry Parade | Route U3 & U5 | Routing swap between Uxbridge and Hillingdon Hospital | Route U4 | Discontinued between Hayes ASDA and Hayes ProLogis Park
| Route U7 | Re-routed direct via Uxbridge Road, no longer serving Charville Lane Re-routed via Church Road and Botwell Lane, no longer serving the section between Uxbridge County Court and Hayes Sainsburys Extended to Bulls Bridge via Route E6 Converted back to Single Deck | Route U9 | Extended via Rickmansworth Road and Harefield Road to terminate at Rickmansworth Station. Frequency increase to every 15 minutes
| Route E6 | Discontinued between Hayes ASDA and Bulls Bridge. Re-routed via Route U4 to Hayes ProLogis Park. Convert to double deck | Route 398 | Extended via Ruislip High Street to terminate at Ruislip Heathfield Rise. Frequency increase to every 20 minutes | Route E7 | Extended via Pembroke Road to terminate at Windmill Hill | New Route N114 | New night route from Queensbury Station via current Route 114 to Ruislip (routing direct via Bessborough Road) and Route U1 to Uxbridge |
U9 to Rickmansworth - never going to happen. London Country's 309 was desperately unrenumerative before the London Borough of Hillingdon stepped in with funding to incorporate the Harefield-Uxbridge section into new route 128. Currently the (non-TfL) service between Harefield and Rickmansworth is subsidised by Hertfordshire County Council and only survives because of the links it provides to hospitals. 398 - providing a 20-minute service over a section of route that currently only has 14 journeys a day (and none on Sundays) feels like overkill - and what would you do with the U10? N114 is an OK idea but why not run it from Mill Hill as the daytime 114? Also would it be viable on Sunday to Thursday nights? I agree on the N114 - start it from Mill Hill. I would say it would give areas a night service that don't already have them like Ruislip and Mill Hill along with Queensbury on Sun-Thu.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 20, 2021 8:56:46 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do?
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jan 20, 2021 9:04:51 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? It depends. Do people tend to get the 109 between, say, Streatham and Croydon Town Centre? What about the 412 between Purley and Croydon? How many people would it affect? Are there any other buses to connect the two places? What are the frequencies and vehicle types like? These are the sort of questions TfL would have to think about before deciding which one to cut back.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 20, 2021 9:08:48 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? It depends. Do people tend to get the 109 between, say, Streatham and Croydon Town Centre? What about the 412 between Purley and Croydon? How many people would it affect? Are there any other buses to connect the two places? What are the frequencies and vehicle types like? These are the sort of questions TfL would have to think about before deciding which one to cut back. When the 412 was cut, the 412 fell in use by 200000 people but the 403 grew in use. There is huge demand according to locals here between Streatham/Brixton & Croydon hence why there's the 109/250 and between Norbury & Croydon. But would you still cut it back because it's long? Another one is that despite the 35 being longer than the 344, it grew by 1.1 million last year, and it's now getting levels similar to that of the 109/250.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 20, 2021 9:19:01 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? For me the deciding factor would be where people get off and on. Taking the 109 as an example, if 95% of the passengers get off and on at West Croydon there is little point in running it beyond there. However if it has good loads going all the way to and from the Town Centre then there is a good case to retain it. Similarly with the 412 coming in from the south; if most of the passengers are getting off in the Town Centre there is little point in running it through to West Croydon. You could argue that you lose interchange with rail services but that's a pretty pointless argument if hardly anyone is doing so anyway.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2021 9:23:14 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? The Croydon changes in November 2019 were about reducing bus congestion in Wellesley Road and in the bus station where as the latest cuts are totally focused on saving money.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 20, 2021 9:27:39 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? The Croydon changes in November 2019 were about reducing bus congestion in Wellesley Road and in the bus station where as the latest cuts are totally focused on saving money. It's more of an open debate question, I'm not talking about the cuts at the minute.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2021 9:36:05 GMT
The Croydon changes in November 2019 were about reducing bus congestion in Wellesley Road and in the bus station where as the latest cuts are totally focused on saving money. It's more of an open debate question, I'm not talking about the cuts at the minute. I know but I don't think that's a reasonable comparison given that the changes were for an entirely different reason.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 20, 2021 9:43:46 GMT
It's more of an open debate question, I'm not talking about the cuts at the minute. I know but I don't think that's a reasonable comparison given that the changes were for an entirely different reason. But my point is people are trying to cut high passenger per km routes with replacement of lower passenger per km routes due to their length.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 9:47:06 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? The Croydon changes in November 2019 were about reducing bus congestion in Wellesley Road and in the bus station where as the latest cuts are totally focused on saving money. I believe the proposed changes were a thinly veiled disguise to stop buses getting tied up in construction at the proposed Westfield construction, but of course that didn’t happen so no major changes were needed.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2021 10:03:25 GMT
The Croydon changes in November 2019 were about reducing bus congestion in Wellesley Road and in the bus station where as the latest cuts are totally focused on saving money. I believe the proposed changes were a thinly veiled disguise to stop buses getting tied up in construction at the proposed Westfield construction, but of course that didn’t happen so no major changes were needed. Yes although the changes have reduced bus movements across the tram junction at George Street where there was previously often long delays and a long queue of buses alongside the underpass.
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Jan 20, 2021 10:30:59 GMT
Changes to buses in Ruislip, Uxbridge & Hayes areas Route U1 | Restructed to operate via current Route U7 from Hillingdon Hospital to Hayes Sainsbury's | Route U2 | Re-routed via current Route U1 from Pield Heath Road to West Drayton and Route U5 to Mulberry Parade | Route U3 & U5 | Routing swap between Uxbridge and Hillingdon Hospital | Route U4 | Discontinued between Hayes ASDA and Hayes ProLogis Park
| Route U7 | Re-routed direct via Uxbridge Road, no longer serving Charville Lane Re-routed via Church Road and Botwell Lane, no longer serving the section between Uxbridge County Court and Hayes Sainsburys Extended to Bulls Bridge via Route E6 Converted back to Single Deck | Route U9 | Extended via Rickmansworth Road and Harefield Road to terminate at Rickmansworth Station. Frequency increase to every 15 minutes
| Route E6 | Discontinued between Hayes ASDA and Bulls Bridge. Re-routed via Route U4 to Hayes ProLogis Park. Convert to double deck | Route 398 | Extended via Ruislip High Street to terminate at Ruislip Heathfield Rise. Frequency increase to every 20 minutes | Route E7 | Extended via Pembroke Road to terminate at Windmill Hill | New Route N114 | New night route from Queensbury Station via current Route 114 to Ruislip (routing direct via Bessborough Road) and Route U1 to Uxbridge |
N114- should start from mill hill, tbh or you could extend further east to whetstone/barnet via 251, then 263 to cover more of mill hill and links with N113, night routes can be longer so just a suggestion U1- i like the idea of U1/U7 but the U1/U3 corridor is also viable, as a regular U1 passenger the U1/U3, id rather the U1/U3, U1 and U3 frequency is much more similar than U1/U7, U1 usually runs 4bph with 5bph in mornings, metroline also operate both routes aswell U4- Could extend to southall from hayes via waterside when it is completed 398- what would you do with U10, and i don't think residents would appriciate more than 1bph, U10 has no evening service or sunday service. The 398 recently got its sunday service E7- there is no point in terminating it at windmill hill, keep it as it is and give DDs U9- nice idea but they wouldn't do it U7/E6- it still serves uxbridge county court if it is rerouted via church road and botwell lane, but that section already has 3 buses that goes down it, 195, 278 and H98, i dont think E6 needs to changed imo
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2021 12:39:08 GMT
I believe the proposed changes were a thinly veiled disguise to stop buses getting tied up in construction at the proposed Westfield construction, but of course that didn’t happen so no major changes were needed. Yes although the changes have reduced bus movements across the tram junction at George Street where there was previously often long delays and a long queue of buses alongside the underpass. I think your over exaggerating there in terms of long delays & long queues of buses.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 20, 2021 12:53:15 GMT
I've noticed quite recently there are lots of swapping termini of routes with the "shorter route" so let me give an example where this won't work. When there were the Croydon changes in November 2019, lots of routes were removed between Croydon Town Centre & West Croydon. If you were making the changes would you cut the 109 only because it is long but keep the 412 because it is shorter. The 412 also had no where near the level of usage on the 109 (the 109 has 10 times the usage of the 412, I think the figure now is closer to 15 times) Would it still be a reasonable thing to do? I would imagine the 109 would need more stand space than the 412. If the 109 was curtailed West Croydon, you would probably need to kick 2 routes out. Imagine it was a toss up between 109 & 250, and they went with curtailing the 250
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Post by justjxck1994 on Jan 20, 2021 14:30:55 GMT
Some revised changes
New Route N114 | New night route from Edgware to Uxbridge, running via Hale Lane, Route 114 LOR to Ruislip and Route U1 to Uxbridge Station | Route U1 | Revised to operate between Ruislip Station and Hayes Lombardy Retail Park via current route to Hillingdon Hospital and Route U7 to Hayes | Route U2 | Revised to operate between Uxbridge Station and Stockley Park Mulberry Parade via current LOR to Pield Heath Road and Route U1/U3 LOR to West Drayton Station and Route U5 to Stockley Park Mulberry Parade | Route U3 | Routing swap with Route 350 between West Drayton and Harmondsworth. Routing swap between Uxbridge and Hillingdon Hospital with Route U4 | Route U4 | Routing swap between Uxbridge and Hillingdon Hospital with Route U3
| Route 350 | Routing swap with Route U3 between West Drayton and Harmondsworth | Route U7 | Restructed to operate via Kingsway, Wood End Green Road, Botwell Lane, Printing House Lane, Trevor Road, Blyth Road, Dawley Road, North Hyde Road, Station Road, Pump Lane to terminate at Southall Waterside Development. (Buses will terminate at Hayes & Harlington Station until works are complete)
| Route E7 | Restructed to run via Route 282 LOR from Yeading White Hart and Eastcote Lane, and Route 114 LOR to Ruislip Station. Converted to Double Deck (Route E7 currently can't convert to double deck due to the Low Bridge in South Ruislip, even though it doesn't past it, the road can still be used during emergency diversions) | New Route E4 | New Single Deck between Ruislip and Perivale Medway Estate via Route E7 LOR to Greenford Broadway and Route E5 LOR to Perivale Medway Estate. Running north along Medway Drive - right into Woodhouse Avenue - Hodder Drive then pause at Barmouth Avenue departing via Conway Crescent - Thames Avenue - Woodhouse Avenue - Medway Drive - Medway Parade and return to Ruislip
| Route E6 | Revised to operate direct via North Hyde Road (See Route H28 for replacement). Converted to Double Deck | Route E11 | Extended to Greenford Westway Cross | Route 111 | Withdrawn between Hounslow and Heathrow. New Night Route N111 would continue to run LOR between Kingston and Heathrow | Route H98 | Revised to operate via Route 111 LOR between Cranford The Avenue and Hounslow Bus Station. Revised to terminate at Hounslow Bell Corner | Route E8 | Revised in Hounslow to terminate at Blehiem Centre | Route H20 | Revised to operate via Route H28 LOR between Hounslow Treaty Centre and Osterley Tesco. Converted to Dual-Door SD. Slight frequency increase to every 12 minutes | Route H28 | Withdrawn between Hounslow Bus Station and Osterley Tesco. Re-routed to terminate at Isleworth Fire Station. Extended via Route E6 to terminate at Hayes & Harlington Station (buses stand on Blyth Road) |
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