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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 8, 2020 20:47:50 GMT
Absolutely not the 53 is incredibly busy and would keep a link from Deptford to roughly Central London. The 53 could maybe then return to Whitehall. I don't see any liklihood of the 53 returning to Whitehall...... and it really isn't that busy nowadays. The 53 however retains a good link to E&C and other points en route, it would continue to provide a link between OKR Tesco & Deptford, as well as keep a link between Deptford and Central London. I think the 53 is quite well used.
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Post by greg on Aug 8, 2020 21:02:28 GMT
@greg I do hope you realize that the N53 gets much more use than the N453. I've suggested for the N453 to go with the N53 extended to Oxford Circus in its place and having shorts running to Deptford as appropriate. Also, like many Gellico stated, due to a massive black hole in bus services in the Upper Belvedere & Lessness Heath areas, people would likely still need to go to the end with people walking from there. The N89 is also the same, many people need to walk from Erith to areas very far flung from the night bus network as is with the N1. I think it's a similar situation with the N55. The N25 & N86 have two very different frequencies and I suspect they should be kept as simply as possible, as much as I'd like a Central London to Harold Hill route, I'd certainly catch the tube to Stratford and then catch the bus to Harold Hill or get the 6bph N15 Yeah no, Im not suggesting anything, it was just an example of two 24-hour routes duplicating each other for a long stretch of route which could be reduced to 1 during night. I only thought the N453 had more commuters as it served more of Central London (Oxford Circus, Baker Street) etc.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 8, 2020 21:10:34 GMT
@greg I do hope you realize that the N53 gets much more use than the N453. I've suggested for the N453 to go with the N53 extended to Oxford Circus in its place and having shorts running to Deptford as appropriate. Also, like many Gellico stated, due to a massive black hole in bus services in the Upper Belvedere & Lessness Heath areas, people would likely still need to go to the end with people walking from there. The N89 is also the same, many people need to walk from Erith to areas very far flung from the night bus network as is with the N1. I think it's a similar situation with the N55. The N25 & N86 have two very different frequencies and I suspect they should be kept as simply as possible, as much as I'd like a Central London to Harold Hill route, I'd certainly catch the tube to Stratford and then catch the bus to Harold Hill or get the 6bph N15 Yeah no, Im not suggesting anything, it was just an example of two 24-hour routes duplicating each other for a long stretch of route which could be reduced to 1 during night. I only thought the N453 had more commuters as it served more of Central London (Oxford Circus, Baker Street) etc. The night bus network contrary to the daytime network may actually see a rise post COVID. Like many members are predicting, we could see a second wave, this may make us desperate to go out and enjoy ourselves. We lost a lot of time this year we could spend enjoying ourselves. Working habits go, once again this could mean a rise in going out. We could now work around our working habits to make sure we get to go out without feeling tired and I suspect with more flexible working, people may choose to go out more long term. Only time will tell. The Baker Street area is not renound for nights out or night clubs.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 8, 2020 21:54:18 GMT
I saw suggestions regarding route 24 earlier. Maybe it will be withdrawn, route 29 extended to Pimlico, route 68 extended to Hampstead Heath (not following route 168 but replacing route 24), and route 253 curtailed at Mornington Crescent, or even Camden Town if space permits. Or maybe, replace route 24 with route 27 extended to Hampstead Heath and route 29 extended to Pimlico.
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Post by ronnie on Aug 8, 2020 21:55:30 GMT
The route & area you use as an example is a poor example because we all know that bus provision in Barnes is all over the place even before the pandemic with some routes quiet and others rammed like the 533 and the 378 has generally carried very small loads since it's introduction. The Bailout occurred because TfL's reserves had disappeared almost entirely (I'm not getting into the rights and wrongs of that) and the return to service was a mix of mainly clawing revenue back but also to aid social distancing because no can accurately predict it. In Brixton, buses are getting busier & busier and I've even spotted buses that had more than the capacity they should have so it really depends on the area - there is no one size fits all solution. Don't take this the wrong way but your quick gains sound more like jumping the gun - it's far too soon to analyse the impact given routes have only recently returned to a normal service and some are still waiting to do so - in a few months, we'll know for better or for worse. Talking of busy buses a EL1 I spotted at Ilford during the week was well over capacity. Slightly guesstimating given I haven’t been out much recently but I can safely surmise that a lot of routes in east London are at least at capacity if not over capacity
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Post by greg on Aug 8, 2020 22:00:57 GMT
I saw suggestions regarding route 24 earlier. Maybe it will be withdrawn, route 29 extended to Pimlico, route 68 extended to Hampstead Heath (not following route 168 but replacing route 24), and route 253 curtailed at Mornington Crescent, or even Camden Town if space permits. Or maybe, replace route 24 with route 27 extended to Hampstead Heath and route 29 extended to Pimlico. Would never work, with the 29 to Pimlico. Maybe as far as Victoria, but that is a stretch already. Don’t think the 24 would get withdrawn, but some changes with some other routes. I could see the 27 being extended to Hampstead Heath though.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 8, 2020 22:15:19 GMT
I saw suggestions regarding route 24 earlier. Maybe it will be withdrawn, route 29 extended to Pimlico, route 68 extended to Hampstead Heath (not following route 168 but replacing route 24), and route 253 curtailed at Mornington Crescent, or even Camden Town if space permits. Or maybe, replace route 24 with route 27 extended to Hampstead Heath and route 29 extended to Pimlico. Would never work, with the 29 to Pimlico. Maybe as far as Victoria, but that is a stretch already. Don’t think the 24 would get withdrawn, but some changes with some other routes. I could see the 27 being extended to Hampstead Heath though. I would be concerned if route 24 were withdrawn but nothing replaced it to Pimlico. I thought of route 29 as it would provide a replacement all the way from Camden Town. Maybe the Pimlico end could be replaced by an extension to route 507 or another LT route like the 16, 38 or 390. Even any of these would sever mos current West End - Pimlico links though.
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Post by greg on Aug 8, 2020 22:18:47 GMT
Would never work, with the 29 to Pimlico. Maybe as far as Victoria, but that is a stretch already. Don’t think the 24 would get withdrawn, but some changes with some other routes. I could see the 27 being extended to Hampstead Heath though. I would be concerned if route 24 were withdrawn but nothing replaced it to Pimlico. I thought of route 29 as it would provide a replacement all the way from Camden Town. Maybe the Pimlico end could be replaced by an extension to route 507 or another LT route like the 16, 38 or 390. Even any of these would sever West End - Pimlico links though. A new bus route linking somewhere and between Tottenham Court Road-Pimlico would be a good idea.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 8, 2020 22:20:39 GMT
I would be concerned if route 24 were withdrawn but nothing replaced it to Pimlico. I thought of route 29 as it would provide a replacement all the way from Camden Town. Maybe the Pimlico end could be replaced by an extension to route 507 or another LT route like the 16, 38 or 390. Even any of these would sever West End - Pimlico links though. A new bus route linking somewhere and between Tottenham Court Road-Pimlico would be a good idea. I think we might have cracked it. Withdraw route 24, extend route 27 to Hampstead Heath and extend route 8 to Pimlico.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 8, 2020 23:37:13 GMT
I saw suggestions regarding route 24 earlier. Maybe it will be withdrawn, route 29 extended to Pimlico, route 68 extended to Hampstead Heath (not following route 168 but replacing route 24), and route 253 curtailed at Mornington Crescent, or even Camden Town if space permits. Or maybe, replace route 24 with route 27 extended to Hampstead Heath and route 29 extended to Pimlico. Extending the 68 to Hampstead Heath could cause reliability issues and the same applies for the 29 which is a lengthy route in it's own right for today's conditions.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 9, 2020 7:16:03 GMT
What we could see post COVID is some routes reintroduced as peak time routes. Really good ideas could be the 357, 507 & 521
Now you may wonder where the buses would sit about? The buses would transfer elsewhere in the fleet with the 507 & 521 (I'm not taking the p*ss) gaining the Smile Ealing mini buses as with less people going in it could mean lighter loadings. The 357 could then keep it's Ees.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 9, 2020 7:43:21 GMT
What we could see post COVID is some routes reintroduced as peak time routes. Really good ideas could be the 357, 507 & 521 Now you may wonder where the buses would sit about? The buses would transfer elsewhere in the fleet with the 507 & 521 (I'm not taking the p*ss) gaining the Smile Ealing mini buses as with less people going in it could mean lighter loadings. The 357 could then keep it's Ees. Although there will always be peak demand, I can actually see it flattening due to an increase in flexible working. For some time now there has been a trend towards office workers working at least some of the time from home, Fridays in particular had been getting noticeably quieter. There may be other trends emerging, for instance starting work later to take advantage of off-peak fares, or working longer hours but spread over fewer days. Or just working less, maybe job-sharing or part-time work (especially if two part-time working parents also share childcare responsibilities). All of these will impact on peak time demand, and also off-peak demand. Not enough though to justify converting the 507 and 521 to peak-time-only minibus routes (you might as well withdraw them totally if there is that little demand). Demand for transport has always been dynamic, and adapts to changing needs and circumstances - it always has done, and will continue to do so.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 9, 2020 8:52:14 GMT
A new bus route linking somewhere and between Tottenham Court Road-Pimlico would be a good idea. I think we might have cracked it. Withdraw route 24, extend route 27 to Hampstead Heath and extend route 8 to Pimlico. I think if you were to split the 24 then it would make sense for the southern portion to continue further south to Battersea to serve the new development there - having said that I'm not sure extending the 8 is a good idea as it would make it very lengthy. What you could do is maybe cut the 24 back to TCR to allow it to be extended at the other end to Battersea then extend the 27 to Hampstead Heath. I personally don't agree with splitting the 24 but if I had to that'd be how I went about it but with the 134 returned to TCR and extras on the 29 too.
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Post by greg on Aug 9, 2020 10:31:01 GMT
I think we might have cracked it. Withdraw route 24, extend route 27 to Hampstead Heath and extend route 8 to Pimlico. I think if you were to split the 24 then it would make sense for the southern portion to continue further south to Battersea to serve the new development there - having said that I'm not sure extending the 8 is a good idea as it would make it very lengthy. What you could do is maybe cut the 24 back to TCR to allow it to be extended at the other end to Battersea then extend the 27 to Hampstead Heath. I personally don't agree with splitting the 24 but if I had to that'd be how I went about it but with the 134 returned to TCR and extras on the 29 too. If that did ever happen, would be best. Think a Holborn-Battersea route would be good. If anything does ever happen, I’d just propose a Camden-South London link like the 24 does already, just not to Pimlico, or another south route replacing the 24 down Camden and Warren Street.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 9, 2020 11:23:49 GMT
I think if you were to split the 24 then it would make sense for the southern portion to continue further south to Battersea to serve the new development there - having said that I'm not sure extending the 8 is a good idea as it would make it very lengthy. What you could do is maybe cut the 24 back to TCR to allow it to be extended at the other end to Battersea then extend the 27 to Hampstead Heath. I personally don't agree with splitting the 24 but if I had to that'd be how I went about it but with the 134 returned to TCR and extras on the 29 too. If that did ever happen, would be best. Think a Holborn-Battersea route would be good. If anything does ever happen, I’d just propose a Camden-South London link like the 24 does already, just not to Pimlico, or another south route replacing the 24 down Camden and Warren Street. There could be a Warren Street to Battersea route and a Tottenham Court Road/TSQ to Hampstead Heath route. The 24 could become the second route and maybe the first could be...I don't know...48?
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