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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2020 15:42:35 GMT
To me the message being relaid by this move is that buses are not currently safe to use. If they are saying buses are not safe to use, they should be taken off the road. Cleaning the buses thoroughly is a matter for the operators and if it isn't being done properly TfL need to take action. Which is what I & others were saying rather than provoking any so called arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 15:43:16 GMT
Passengers can generally avoid each other but if drivers are happier with a sterile area at the front of the bus I don't see what the problem is with providing that on 2 or 3 doored buses. It's quite clear what the problem is - by doing this, we are bringing in a method that not only puts passengers at risk but is in effect labelling them as the cause when plenty of different people have said that the problem of drivers being infected could easily be down to cleaning practices at garages not being followed or enforced. Blocking the entrance door is highly unlikely going to have any effect when drivers are routinely pointing out about cleanliness issues. Something I was thinking about the other day is social distancing is impossible for passengers on buses. I know it's not practical but no attempt has been made for example for every other row of seats taken out of use.
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 11, 2020 15:44:23 GMT
To me the message being relaid by this move is that buses are not currently safe to use. If they are saying buses are not safe to use, they should be taken off the road. The mayor said in an interview when asked if he would be happy for his father to still be driving buses that he wasn't happy for anybody to be driving them at the present time. Cleaning the buses thoroughly is a matter for the operators and if it isn't being done properly TfL need to take action. How have we gone from having the front doors closed to buses not being cleaned properly in the past few posts ... not using the front door will do nothing to stop buses being cleaned properly.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 11, 2020 15:48:10 GMT
The mayor said in an interview when asked if he would be happy for his father to still be driving buses that he wasn't happy for anybody to be driving them at the present time. Cleaning the buses thoroughly is a matter for the operators and if it isn't being done properly TfL need to take action. How have we gone from having the front doors closed to buses not being cleaned properly in the past few posts ... not using the front door will do nothing to stop buses being cleaned properly. Well aren't they the two main gripes at the moment? Keeping the front doors closed will obviously keep passengers a safe distance from the driver.
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Post by george on Apr 11, 2020 15:48:42 GMT
It's quite clear what the problem is - by doing this, we are bringing in a method that not only puts passengers at risk but is in effect labelling them as the cause when plenty of different people have said that the problem of drivers being infected could easily be down to cleaning practices at garages not being followed or enforced. Blocking the entrance door is highly unlikely going to have any effect when drivers are routinely pointing out about cleanliness issues. Something I was thinking about the other day is social distancing is impossible for passengers on buses. I know it's not practical but no attempt has been made for example for every other row of seats taken out of use. Two weeks ago I noticed too many people sitting too near the each other despite having most of the bus to themselves, this was very evident on LT buses with the seats at the back of the bus being taken up but all others free.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2020 15:55:08 GMT
How have we gone from having the front doors closed to buses not being cleaned properly in the past few posts ... not using the front door will do nothing to stop buses being cleaned properly. Well aren't they the two main gripes at the moment? Keeping the front doors closed will obviously keep passengers a safe distance from the driver. But the driver is already safe because he has an assault screen that's had the holes blocked up just like the plastic screens fitted to supermarket tills.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 11, 2020 15:58:10 GMT
Well aren't they the two main gripes at the moment? Keeping the front doors closed will obviously keep passengers a safe distance from the driver. But the driver is already safe because he has an assault screen that's had the holes blocked up just like the plastic screens fitted to supermarket tills. And clearly many drivers, rightly or wrongly, don't think that is adequate.
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Post by jrussa on Apr 13, 2020 1:27:37 GMT
I know that bus routes have had alterations to the schedules from Weekdays to Saturdays or Sundays, but when will all bus routes schedules be will be adjusted in regards to running time?
(I know that Abellio has adjusted a few of their routes)
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Post by thelondonthing on Apr 13, 2020 16:41:17 GMT
BBC News has reported on a video posted on social media by a south London bus driver named Lorraine, aged 62, in which she alleges that she and her colleagues are being "put at risk by Transport for London for not providing a safe working environment." She said: Responding to the report, the Mayor said: You can read the full BBC News article here. One further, tragic detail from that article: a total of 18 staff from across the TfL network, including 12 bus workers, are sadly known to have died so far. It was previously announced, on 5 April, that 5 bus workers had died after testing positive for COVID-19.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 17:30:48 GMT
BBC News has reported on a video posted on social media by a south London bus driver named Lorraine, aged 62, in which she alleges that she and her colleagues are being "put at risk by Transport for London for not providing a safe working environment." She said: Responding to the report, the Mayor said: You can read the full BBC News article here. One further, tragic detail from that article: a total of 18 staff from across the TfL network, including 12 bus workers, are sadly known to have died so far. It was previously announced, on 5 April, that 5 bus workers had died after testing positive for COVID-19. The figure is actually 21 TfL staff who have now died as a result of COVID-19; 15 of these are bus workers. This was confirmed by Sadiq Khan about an hour ago on ITV London.
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Post by redbus on Apr 13, 2020 23:10:12 GMT
We need to separate facts from opinion. The facts are that 12 bus workers have very sadly passed away due to coronavirus and this is truly dreadful. My heart goes out to their families. As far as I know no one knows for sure how these bus workers contracted coronavirus, it may or may not be through work. Was it contracted from another passenger, or inside the bus cab for instance? I am not sure anyone knows. It therefore makes sense to take as many precautions as one can, be it extra cleaning of cabs, distancing from passengers etc, just in case that is what is responsible. I would hate there to be further deaths due to a lack of precautions.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 14, 2020 0:10:40 GMT
We need to separate facts from opinion. The facts are that 12 bus workers have very sadly passed away due to coronavirus and this is truly dreadful. My heart goes out to their families. As far as I know no one knows for sure how these bus workers contracted coronavirus, it may or may not be through work. Was it contracted from another passenger, or inside the bus cab for instance? I am not sure anyone knows. It therefore makes sense to take as many precautions as one can, be it extra cleaning of cabs, distancing from passengers etc, just in case that is what is responsible. I would hate there to be further deaths due to a lack of precautions. Only if the said precaution works - I'm still very dubious how locking the front door prevents a driver from getting it when he/she is already behind an assault screen and doesn't have any interaction when it comes to money from a passenger. Any precautions need to be taken elsewhere IMO for drivers to be properly protected. Not only that but it moves the issue to the passengers who are subsequently increased in terms of the chance they catch due to the proximity of other passengers to them.
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Post by Alex on Apr 14, 2020 1:56:23 GMT
We need to separate facts from opinion. The facts are that 12 bus workers have very sadly passed away due to coronavirus and this is truly dreadful. My heart goes out to their families. As far as I know no one knows for sure how these bus workers contracted coronavirus, it may or may not be through work. Was it contracted from another passenger, or inside the bus cab for instance? I am not sure anyone knows. It therefore makes sense to take as many precautions as one can, be it extra cleaning of cabs, distancing from passengers etc, just in case that is what is responsible. I would hate there to be further deaths due to a lack of precautions. Only if the said precaution works - I'm still very dubious how locking the front door prevents a driver from getting it when he/she is already behind an assault screen and doesn't have any interaction when it comes to money from a passenger. Any precautions need to be taken elsewhere IMO for drivers to be properly protected. Not only that but it moves the issue to the passengers who are subsequently increased in terms of the chance they catch due to the proximity of other passengers to them. Vjaska I get that you are unwell, and stressed about this situation, and work in a supermarket so compare this with the bus drivers job a few posts up. Supermarkets (the ones that I see) are doing an excellent job at the moment trying to encourage social distancing, with the two-metre queues and limiting the number of people that enter the shop. I get that this all falls down when people see the cashier (the one person who often is closest to customers while seeing the widest range of people) but the precaution by limiting numbers entering and encouraging best practice is appreciated. Bus drivers don't have security staff to limit numbers, and with concentrating on the road and elements unique to their role cannot spend their whole time monitoring social distancing and where people sit/stand. Due to the numbers of bus users, this means that the two-metre principle cannot always be adhered to, meaning further risk of a bus becoming a breeding ground for the virus to be passed on and linger. The bus driver is the person who has to stay in the vehicle for the whole time, regularly for spells up to 5.5 hours. Also, supermarket workers have access to facilities on site should they need them. Buses do not have a supply of soap and hot water within them, and facilities at terminus points can be very inadequate. The ability for a driver to wash their hands properly in a setting which is hygienic might not exist from the time they leave their home to when they return back home after completing a shift. This is where shielding methods and use of PPE is so important. Public transport is dirty. There are germs and bugs everywhere. Anywhere that sells food is inspected and made sure to be clean, or at least at a reasonable level. There is a great deal of difference between the supermarket and the bus, and enhanced cleaning regimes on vehicles are important both for staff and passengers. Also, without sounding like I'm trying to provoke anything, I have heard of 12 bus drivers who have died recently because of this virus, I haven't heard of any supermarket floor staff or supply chain workers which this has happened to. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to get one up within this thread, but Redbus is right, the facts say something needs to be done, whether we can pick bits out to dissect from the situation or not.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 14, 2020 10:19:47 GMT
Only if the said precaution works - I'm still very dubious how locking the front door prevents a driver from getting it when he/she is already behind an assault screen and doesn't have any interaction when it comes to money from a passenger. Any precautions need to be taken elsewhere IMO for drivers to be properly protected. Not only that but it moves the issue to the passengers who are subsequently increased in terms of the chance they catch due to the proximity of other passengers to them. Vjaska I get that you are unwell, and stressed about this situation, and work in a supermarket so compare this with the bus drivers job a few posts up. Supermarkets (the ones that I see) are doing an excellent job at the moment trying to encourage social distancing, with the two-metre queues and limiting the number of people that enter the shop. I get that this all falls down when people see the cashier (the one person who often is closest to customers while seeing the widest range of people) but the precaution by limiting numbers entering and encouraging best practice is appreciated. Bus drivers don't have security staff to limit numbers, and with concentrating on the road and elements unique to their role cannot spend their whole time monitoring social distancing and where people sit/stand. Due to the numbers of bus users, this means that the two-metre principle cannot always be adhered to, meaning further risk of a bus becoming a breeding ground for the virus to be passed on and linger. The bus driver is the person who has to stay in the vehicle for the whole time, regularly for spells up to 5.5 hours. Also, supermarket workers have access to facilities on site should they need them. Buses do not have a supply of soap and hot water within them, and facilities at terminus points can be very inadequate. The ability for a driver to wash their hands properly in a setting which is hygienic might not exist from the time they leave their home to when they return back home after completing a shift. This is where shielding methods and use of PPE is so important. Public transport is dirty. There are germs and bugs everywhere. Anywhere that sells food is inspected and made sure to be clean, or at least at a reasonable level. There is a great deal of difference between the supermarket and the bus, and enhanced cleaning regimes on vehicles are important both for staff and passengers. Also, without sounding like I'm trying to provoke anything, I have heard of 12 bus drivers who have died recently because of this virus, I haven't heard of any supermarket floor staff or supply chain workers which this has happened to. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to get one up within this thread, but Redbus is right, the facts say something needs to be done, whether we can pick bits out to dissect from the situation or not. Whilst we may have soap & water, that doesn’t mean supermarkets have been cleaned properly unless you have competent management which isn’t always the case. Shop floor workers like myself who don’t work on tills have no protection from customers who regularly do not observe distancing and those on tills are handling money constantly so it’s not all in supermarkets - drivers in comparison have a big screen and practically no interaction anyway. In the case of drivers, it’s clear that the issue lies elsewhere but that passengers are being unfairly labelled as the cause by introduction of this trial when drivers have complained that cleaning standards and lack of PPE is what’s putting them at risk. If drivers are picking up the virus from home or garages, shutting the front door will do nothing to solve the issue and instead heightens the risk for passengers when all should be protected.
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Post by Alex on Apr 14, 2020 14:21:08 GMT
Whilst we may have soap & water, that doesn’t mean supermarkets have been cleaned properly unless you have competent management which isn’t always the case. Shop floor workers like myself who don’t work on tills have no protection from customers who regularly do not observe distancing and those on tills are handling money constantly so it’s not all in supermarkets - drivers in comparison have a big screen and practically no interaction anyway. In the case of drivers, it’s clear that the issue lies elsewhere but that passengers are being unfairly labelled as the cause by introduction of this trial when drivers have complained that cleaning standards and lack of PPE is what’s putting them at risk. If drivers are picking up the virus from home or garages, shutting the front door will do nothing to solve the issue and instead heightens the risk for passengers when all should be protected. I agree that where the issue lies is impossible to pin down - however more initiatives are better than less so a combination of cleaning + PPE + distancing from the driver should be the safest situation. I don't see how the door trial can be monitored though, you can't used Covid cases as (as you say) you don't know where it's come from......
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