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Post by thelondonthing on Mar 21, 2020 14:57:16 GMT
I was browsing through TfL's 'Bus Graphics Standard' document - as one does - and I spotted a rather curious detail. According to this document, operators are explicitly forbidden from placing their logos on either the front or back of the bus - a rule that has very obviously been ignored. Attachment DeletedThe document confirms that the same policy applies to all single- and double-deck buses alike: "No operator branding is to appear on the front or back of the bus." In fact, according to the document, it seems that operators are actually supposed to apply only a small TfL roundel to the front of the bus, while the rear should have no branding at all. This latest version of the Bus Graphics Standard document was published in March 2019 - and yet, pretty much every bus I see has the operator's logo on the front, including those buses that have recently entered service. Does anyone know if this policy has ever actually been enforced, in any way? And what are the chances of TfL suddenly deciding to do so in the future? I suppose it's tough to expect operators to take such demands seriously when TfL so consistently fails in its attention to detail, even in a document that is literally dedicated to drawing one's attention to the very smallest of details. Check out page one of the Bus Graphics Standard document - now ask yourself: on which side of a London bus would you usually find the doors...? Attachment Deleted*facepalm*  |
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Post by galwhv69 on Mar 21, 2020 15:20:03 GMT
What buses use Bio-Diesel (Cleaner Air Logo's) and since when do Arriva have E200MMC EV's? Nice find btw, very interesting read  |
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Post by thelondonthing on Mar 21, 2020 15:30:42 GMT
What buses use Bio-Diesel (Cleaner Air Logo's) and since when do Arriva have E200MMC EV's? Nice find btw, very interesting read It also seems that every bus - regardless of type - has the fleet number 'LT1'!  |
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Post by galwhv69 on Mar 21, 2020 16:08:11 GMT
What buses use Bio-Diesel (Cleaner Air Logo's) and since when do Arriva have E200MMC EV's? Nice find btw, very interesting read It also seems that every bus - regardless of type - has the fleet number 'LT1'! TBF, the note underneath states that's the example  |
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 21, 2020 16:32:58 GMT
I was browsing through TfL's 'Bus Graphics Standard' document - as one does - and I spotted a rather curious detail. According to this document, operators are explicitly forbidden from placing their logos on either the front or back of the bus - a rule that has very obviously been ignored. View AttachmentThe document confirms that the same policy applies to all single- and double-deck buses alike: "No operator branding is to appear on the front or back of the bus." In fact, according to the document, it seems that operators are actually supposed to apply only a small TfL roundel to the front of the bus, while the rear should have no branding at all. This latest version of the Bus Graphics Standard document was published in March 2019 - and yet, pretty much every bus I see has the operator's logo on the front, including those buses that have recently entered service. Does anyone know if this policy has ever actually been enforced, in any way? And what are the chances of TfL suddenly deciding to do so in the future? I suppose it's tough to expect operators to take such demands seriously when TfL so consistently fails in its attention to detail, even in a document that is literally dedicated to drawing one's attention to the very smallest of details. Check out page one of the Bus Graphics Standard document - now ask yourself: on which side of a London bus would you usually find the doors...? View Attachment*facepalm* Perhaps the refurbished Uno E200s on the 383 are a trial for these? As they have a small TFL roundel on the front, with operator's logo only appearing discreetly on the side. I wonder if TFL might also be considering a uniform interior scheme across all new buses, regardless of operator, following the interior refurbishment of the 383's vehicles? If this were to be the case, I think the silver poles of these E200s could be a better choice to roll out than the usual gold scheme used by HCT/Sullivan. I also like the additional black areas on the 383's E200s after refurbishment, looks a lot classier than all over red, especially when compared to some of Metroline's refurbished E200s. |
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Post by LX09FBJ on Mar 21, 2020 16:54:47 GMT
What buses use Bio-Diesel (Cleaner Air Logo's) and since when do Arriva have E200MMC EV's? Nice find btw, very interesting read The bio diesel was a trial at Stagecoach's Barking garage a few years ago |
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Post by schedcomp on Mar 21, 2020 17:25:50 GMT
I was browsing through TfL's 'Bus Graphics Standard' document - as one does - and I spotted a rather curious detail. According to this document, operators are explicitly forbidden from placing their logos on either the front or back of the bus - a rule that has very obviously been ignored. View AttachmentThe document confirms that the same policy applies to all single- and double-deck buses alike: "No operator branding is to appear on the front or back of the bus." In fact, according to the document, it seems that operators are actually supposed to apply only a small TfL roundel to the front of the bus, while the rear should have no branding at all. This latest version of the Bus Graphics Standard document was published in March 2019 - and yet, pretty much every bus I see has the operator's logo on the front, including those buses that have recently entered service. Does anyone know if this policy has ever actually been enforced, in any way? And what are the chances of TfL suddenly deciding to do so in the future? I suppose it's tough to expect operators to take such demands seriously when TfL so consistently fails in its attention to detail, even in a document that is literally dedicated to drawing one's attention to the very smallest of details. Check out page one of the Bus Graphics Standard document - now ask yourself: on which side of a London bus would you usually find the doors...? View Attachment*facepalm* Assuming this new specification applied from 03/19 it will not be a requirement on any tenders won before that date. As it takes roughly a year from contract bid to start date this will only start applying now. Operators will not need to apply this to current tenders so it may take another 5-7 years before branding disappears from front/rear of vehicles. It's the same with the old 80% red rule removal in favour of all red. It took years for Metroline's blue skirt and GAL's grey skirt to disappear and any other operator livery you can think of. |
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Post by thelondonthing on Mar 21, 2020 18:02:45 GMT
I can see what you're saying, but I must admit I have my doubts over whether that is the actual reason. I can certainly see your point with regards to tenders awarded with existing buses - but why would new buses entering the fleet now still not adhere to the latest guidelines? London United recently introduced its new BCE-class fleet on the 94; regardless of when the tender was awarded, why would a bus entering service in the last few weeks not have to comply with requirements introduced a year earlier? It's not as if London United would have been unable to specify that the bus be delivered without an RATP LU logo on the front, during the months between ordering the vehicles and taking delivery of them. You're quite right that previously livery change requirements have taken forever to implement across the respective fleets - but that's precisely why operators begin switching to the new requirements with their newest buses first, allowing the oldest buses to leave the fleet without needing to be repainted or rebranded. That's why it makes so little sense to me that operators would be allowed to - or would even choose to - keep introducing new buses into service that don't comply with requirements that have been in place for so long. Perhaps I'm over-thinking this; I imagine I've probably given this matter more thought than TfL and the operators combined...!  |
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Post by DE20106 on Mar 22, 2020 11:52:34 GMT
I was browsing through TfL's 'Bus Graphics Standard' document - as one does - and I spotted a rather curious detail. According to this document, operators are explicitly forbidden from placing their logos on either the front or back of the bus - a rule that has very obviously been ignored. View AttachmentThe document confirms that the same policy applies to all single- and double-deck buses alike: "No operator branding is to appear on the front or back of the bus." In fact, according to the document, it seems that operators are actually supposed to apply only a small TfL roundel to the front of the bus, while the rear should have no branding at all. This latest version of the Bus Graphics Standard document was published in March 2019 - and yet, pretty much every bus I see has the operator's logo on the front, including those buses that have recently entered service. Does anyone know if this policy has ever actually been enforced, in any way? And what are the chances of TfL suddenly deciding to do so in the future? I suppose it's tough to expect operators to take such demands seriously when TfL so consistently fails in its attention to detail, even in a document that is literally dedicated to drawing one's attention to the very smallest of details. Check out page one of the Bus Graphics Standard document - now ask yourself: on which side of a London bus would you usually find the doors...? View Attachment*facepalm* Assuming this new specification applied from 03/19 it will not be a requirement on any tenders won before that date. As it takes roughly a year from contract bid to start date this will only start applying now. Operators will not need to apply this to current tenders so it may take another 5-7 years before branding disappears from front/rear of vehicles. It's the same with the old 80% red rule removal in favour of all red. It took years for Metroline's blue skirt and GAL's grey skirt to disappear and any other operator livery you can think of. There are still some grey skirted GAL buses! The 432’s 60-reg buses have them as they unbelievably haven’t yet had a refurbishment. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Mar 22, 2020 13:14:46 GMT
Assuming this new specification applied from 03/19 it will not be a requirement on any tenders won before that date. As it takes roughly a year from contract bid to start date this will only start applying now. Operators will not need to apply this to current tenders so it may take another 5-7 years before branding disappears from front/rear of vehicles. It's the same with the old 80% red rule removal in favour of all red. It took years for Metroline's blue skirt and GAL's grey skirt to disappear and any other operator livery you can think of. There are still some grey skirted GAL buses! The 432’s 60-reg buses have them as they unbelievably haven’t yet had a refurbishment. Some have it |
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Post by 10121ddo on Mar 22, 2020 13:31:04 GMT
Assuming this new specification applied from 03/19 it will not be a requirement on any tenders won before that date. As it takes roughly a year from contract bid to start date this will only start applying now. Operators will not need to apply this to current tenders so it may take another 5-7 years before branding disappears from front/rear of vehicles. It's the same with the old 80% red rule removal in favour of all red. It took years for Metroline's blue skirt and GAL's grey skirt to disappear and any other operator livery you can think of. There are still some grey skirted GAL buses! The 432’s 60-reg buses have them as they unbelievably haven’t yet had a refurbishment. Indeed! Surprised some of the 158's TAs left service last year without the blue skirt! |
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