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Post by bertrell on Dec 9, 2020 12:07:53 GMT
Abellio could indeed win route 507 like you suggest. I could picture route 521 having a dark horse winner, namely Stagecoach at BW! Route 425 would probably then move to WH. Stagecoach have been electrifying other East London garages WH, BK & RM for just 1 route so far and could want to do likewise at BW. I would think if the 507/521 were to go to a new operator the vehicles and the premises would also change hands. Sorry, Go Ahead Own the site and furthermore they Equipped it at their expense too. Abellio, does not have Unlimited Space either contrary to Opinion. And, the 507 & 521 will be retained possibly at a reduced Frequency. I, was standing at Victoria awaiting the 38 and a TFL Surveyor asked the Bus Station Supervisor can he sign in as he was doing a Survey on the 507. That, was 2 weeks back.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 9, 2020 12:33:10 GMT
I would think if the 507/521 were to go to a new operator the vehicles and the premises would also change hands. Sorry, Go Ahead Own the site and furthermore they Equipped it at their expense too. Abellio, does not have Unlimited Space either contrary to Opinion. And, the 507 & 521 will be retained possibly at a reduced Frequency. I, was standing at Victoria awaiting the 38 and a TFL Surveyor asked the Bus Station Supervisor can he sign in as he was doing a Survey on the 507. That, was 2 weeks back. They equipped it for the 507/521 contract and if they lose that contract...... With the current uncertainty I wouldn't make any assumptions about the routes or the premises.
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Post by kmkcheng on Dec 9, 2020 12:44:50 GMT
Abellio could indeed win route 507 like you suggest. I could picture route 521 having a dark horse winner, namely Stagecoach at BW! Route 425 would probably then move to WH. Stagecoach have been electrifying other East London garages WH, BK & RM for just 1 route so far and could want to do likewise at BW. I would think if the 507/521 were to go to a new operator the vehicles and the premises would also change hands. Why would another operator bid without a plan on what buses to use and where to base the routes. They can’t cross their fingers and hope Go Ahead would sell them the buses and RA because they lost the routes.
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Post by bertrell on Dec 9, 2020 12:48:11 GMT
Sorry, Go Ahead Own the site and furthermore they Equipped it at their expense too. Abellio, does not have Unlimited Space either contrary to Opinion. And, the 507 & 521 will be retained possibly at a reduced Frequency. I, was standing at Victoria awaiting the 38 and a TFL Surveyor asked the Bus Station Supervisor can he sign in as he was doing a Survey on the 507. That, was 2 weeks back. They equipped it for the 507/521 contract and if they lose that contract...... With the current uncertainty I wouldn't make any assumptions about the routes or the premises. They will retain both and easily too, and remember they own the site too even if they lose the routes which is highly Unlikely in my Opinion. Walworth, for Instance does not have the space to fit either route. Bayyersea, is bursting at the seams too..
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Post by cl54 on Dec 9, 2020 18:16:56 GMT
I would think if the 507/521 were to go to a new operator the vehicles and the premises would also change hands. Sorry, Go Ahead Own the site and furthermore they Equipped it at their expense too. Abellio, does not have Unlimited Space either contrary to Opinion. And, the 507 & 521 will be retained possibly at a reduced Frequency. I, was standing at Victoria awaiting the 38 and a TFL Surveyor asked the Bus Station Supervisor can he sign in as he was doing a Survey on the 507. That, was 2 weeks back. More likely to do with monitoring the loadings before the full service was reintroduced on 5th December.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 9, 2020 18:41:40 GMT
They equipped it for the 507/521 contract and if they lose that contract...... With the current uncertainty I wouldn't make any assumptions about the routes or the premises. They will retain both and easily too, and remember they own the site too even if they lose the routes which is highly Unlikely in my Opinion. Walworth, for Instance does not have the space to fit either route. Bayyersea, is bursting at the seams too.. Battersea is not bursting at the seams, They have lost the 452 which I don't think got replaced and the C3 just left, the 414 and 49 are going soon as well. There'll be more than enough space for the Red Arrow routes there, however it's a case of whether they win it. I think it should be a safe Go Ahead retain but we never know. Notable last time the 507 had two bidders while the 521 just had one, so Abellio are probably going to be on the prowl for at least one of the two.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 9, 2020 18:55:27 GMT
They equipped it for the 507/521 contract and if they lose that contract...... With the current uncertainty I wouldn't make any assumptions about the routes or the premises. They will retain both and easily too, and remember they own the site too even if they lose the routes which is highly Unlikely in my Opinion. Walworth, for Instance does not have the space to fit either route. Bayyersea, is bursting at the seams too.. Battersea isn't bursting at the seams and it's quite possible that Abellio could win one or both routes, if indeed they continue in their current form.
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Post by bertrell on Dec 9, 2020 18:56:00 GMT
They will retain both and easily too, and remember they own the site too even if they lose the routes which is highly Unlikely in my Opinion. Walworth, for Instance does not have the space to fit either route. Bayyersea, is bursting at the seams too.. Battersea is not bursting at the seams, They have lost the 452 which I don't think got replaced and the C3 just left, the 414 and 49 are going soon as well. There'll be more than enough space for the Red Arrow routes there, however it's a case of whether they win it. I think it should be a safe Go Ahead retain but we never know. Notable last time the 507 had two bidders while the 521 just had one, so Abellio are probably going to be on the prowl for at least one of the two. Battersea, according to planning docs has a capacity for 195 buses. 175 outside & 20 inside the workshops.currently,it has 211 buses plus the 49/414 expire after the RA routes which start in August. Before, you ask Walworth is bursting at the seams too. So, I can't see them winning either route or the 148 either as they've no space their either. Theyll, have space when the 49 & 414 are gone though.. And another thing to think about is, GA hold the aces with a compliant site & buses so why woul TFL award the RA routes to Abellio?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 9, 2020 19:00:09 GMT
Battersea is not bursting at the seams, They have lost the 452 which I don't think got replaced and the C3 just left, the 414 and 49 are going soon as well. There'll be more than enough space for the Red Arrow routes there, however it's a case of whether they win it. I think it should be a safe Go Ahead retain but we never know. Notable last time the 507 had two bidders while the 521 just had one, so Abellio are probably going to be on the prowl for at least one of the two. Battersea, according to planning docs has a capacity for 195 buses. 175 outside & 20 inside the workshops.currently,it has 211 buses plus the 49/414 expire after the RA routes which start in August. Before, you ask Walworth is bursting at the seams too. So, I can't see them winning either route or the 148 either as they've no space their either. Theyll, have space when the 49 & 414 are gone though.. And another thing to think about is, GA hold the aces with a compliant site & buses so why woul TFL award the RA routes to Abellio? Probably for the same reason why many other operators lose routes when they have compliant buses? Because the new operator submits a cheaper bid? I'm not saying Go Ahead won't retain the routes, but tendering is not just a case of one operator keeping a route just because they happen to have everything already. By this logic when the 69 came up then WH should have won it as they were the only garage in the area which had electric infrastructure.
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Post by TB123 on Dec 9, 2020 19:34:47 GMT
Battersea is not bursting at the seams, They have lost the 452 which I don't think got replaced and the C3 just left, the 414 and 49 are going soon as well. There'll be more than enough space for the Red Arrow routes there, however it's a case of whether they win it. I think it should be a safe Go Ahead retain but we never know. Notable last time the 507 had two bidders while the 521 just had one, so Abellio are probably going to be on the prowl for at least one of the two. Battersea, according to planning docs has a capacity for 195 buses. 175 outside & 20 inside the workshops.currently,it has 211 buses plus the 49/414 expire after the RA routes which start in August. Before, you ask Walworth is bursting at the seams too. So, I can't see them winning either route or the 148 either as they've no space their either. Theyll, have space when the 49 & 414 are gone though.. And another thing to think about is, GA hold the aces with a compliant site & buses so why woul TFL award the RA routes to Abellio? They've got night bus services at Battersea which shift a fair amount of stuff out dont forget
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 20:21:29 GMT
Abellio could indeed win route 507 like you suggest. I could picture route 521 having a dark horse winner, namely Stagecoach at BW! Route 425 would probably then move to WH. Stagecoach have been electrifying other East London garages WH, BK & RM for just 1 route so far and could want to do likewise at BW. I would think if the 507/521 were to go to a new operator the vehicles and the premises would also change hands. The premises would not change hands. Remember Waterloo garage is also used as the sign on point for the 1 & 188 as well as a facility for drivers on those routes to take their reliefs. If the Red Arrow routes were lost I wouldn't be surprised to see the 1 & 188 move in there to fill the gap. Remember the 11s used to run from there not too long ago. It's a very well located site - it would be counterproductive to lose it.
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Post by M1104 on Dec 9, 2020 20:30:28 GMT
Battersea is not bursting at the seams, They have lost the 452 which I don't think got replaced and the C3 just left, the 414 and 49 are going soon as well. There'll be more than enough space for the Red Arrow routes there, however it's a case of whether they win it. I think it should be a safe Go Ahead retain but we never know. Notable last time the 507 had two bidders while the 521 just had one, so Abellio are probably going to be on the prowl for at least one of the two. Battersea, according to planning docs has a capacity for 195 buses. 175 outside & 20 inside the workshops.currently,it has 211 buses plus the 49/414 expire after the RA routes which start in August. Before, you ask Walworth is bursting at the seams too. So, I can't see them winning either route or the 148 either as they've no space their either. Theyll, have space when the 49 & 414 are gone though.. And another thing to think about is, GA hold the aces with a compliant site & buses so why woul TFL award the RA routes to Abellio? To free up more space some work can be moved to Beddington
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 9, 2020 20:43:52 GMT
I would think if the 507/521 were to go to a new operator the vehicles and the premises would also change hands. The premises would not change hands. Remember Waterloo garage is also used as the sign on point for the 1 & 188 as well as a facility for drivers on those routes to take their reliefs. If the Red Arrow routes were lost I wouldn't be surprised to see the 1 & 188 move in there to fill the gap. Remember the 11s used to run from there not too long ago. It's a very well located site - it would be counterproductive to lose it. I wouldn't be too surprised whether in such a case permission for Saturday operation is filed, buses these days tend to be a lot quieter and the noise doesn't tend to be hugely great during the day.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 9, 2020 23:58:22 GMT
They will retain both and easily too, and remember they own the site too even if they lose the routes which is highly Unlikely in my Opinion. Walworth, for Instance does not have the space to fit either route. Bayyersea, is bursting at the seams too.. Battersea isn't bursting at the seams and it's quite possible that Abellio could win one or both routes, if indeed they continue in their current form. I thought you weren't making assumptions about the routes according to your post at the top of the page?
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Post by vjaska on Dec 10, 2020 0:01:45 GMT
Battersea is not bursting at the seams, They have lost the 452 which I don't think got replaced and the C3 just left, the 414 and 49 are going soon as well. There'll be more than enough space for the Red Arrow routes there, however it's a case of whether they win it. I think it should be a safe Go Ahead retain but we never know. Notable last time the 507 had two bidders while the 521 just had one, so Abellio are probably going to be on the prowl for at least one of the two. Battersea, according to planning docs has a capacity for 195 buses. 175 outside & 20 inside the workshops.currently,it has 211 buses plus the 49/414 expire after the RA routes which start in August. Before, you ask Walworth is bursting at the seams too. So, I can't see them winning either route or the 148 either as they've no space their either. Theyll, have space when the 49 & 414 are gone though.. And another thing to think about is, GA hold the aces with a compliant site & buses so why woul TFL award the RA routes to Abellio? Walworth is full hence the 415 rumoured to be moving to QB to make room for the 63 but QB loses a number of routes and operates night routes as well which increase the space they have to utilise it. I'm not saying they will either the 507 or 521 (I think Go-Ahead will retain these) but it's certainly possible for at least one to end up there.
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