|
|
Post by LBOTG on Mar 27, 2020 18:55:42 GMT
Speaking more generally and not in light of the Covid-19 pandemic...
Are there any bus routes or corridors that, over the last few years, have become significantly busier or quieter in rush hour? In essence, have they lost or gained commuter flows and are there any influences behind this?
Just curious
|
|
|
|
Post by galwhv69 on Mar 27, 2020 21:38:33 GMT
57 was starting to pick up more passengers but then TfL reduced the frequency
|
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Mar 27, 2020 22:30:11 GMT
Iv taken the 1 a few times over the past couple of years and it feels quieter in the Peaks then it did at its peak when the 199 was withdrawn and it was severely overloaded with the Blue Triangle extras. Now it seems it's school time busy and not so at the peaks.
|
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 1, 2020 16:39:40 GMT
Iv taken the 1 a few times over the past couple of years and it feels quieter in the Peaks then it did at its peak when the 199 was withdrawn and it was severely overloaded with the Blue Triangle extras. Now it seems it's school time busy and not so at the peaks. I think Canada Water as a whole has wayyy too many buses going from Canada Water to Waterloo Station, providing there is also the Jubilee. I'd honestly like to look into this: The reshaping of the 1, 188 & 381! |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Apr 1, 2020 18:48:35 GMT
Throw in the 47 which often arrives at CW from Lewisham full then is fairly empty leaving. The jubilee has definetly taken usage from the 47 plus the LO.
|
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 1, 2020 20:33:55 GMT
Throw in the 47 which often arrives at CW from Lewisham full then is fairly empty leaving. The jubilee has definetly taken usage from the 47 plus the LO. An improved Southeastern service between Lewisham and London Bridge and improvements on Thameslink from Bellingham and Catford must have as well. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Apr 1, 2020 21:11:53 GMT
Basically improvements to other modes (LO, tube and Southeastern, DLR from Lewisham and Deptford) plus a change of demographics in Canada Water who are likely to be working in Canary Whalf or want fast links to the city have taken away some demand on the 1, 47, 188, 381. I would not be surprised to see a consultation at some point similar to the Finchley Road or the 48 maybe involving the 199 aswell.
Maybe the 381 taking a faster routing to LB could see the 47 taken away and maybe focus on where it's real useage comes from as a feeder to Canada water from the south.
|
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 1, 2020 22:21:51 GMT
Basically improvements to other modes (LO, tube and Southeastern, DLR from Lewisham and Deptford) plus a change of demographics in Canada Water who are likely to be working in Canary Whalf or want fast links to the city have taken away some demand on the 1, 47, 188, 381. I would not be surprised to see a consultation at some point similar to the Finchley Road or the 48 maybe involving the 199 aswell. Maybe the 381 taking a faster routing to LB could see the 47 taken away and maybe focus on where it's real useage comes from as a feeder to Canada water from the south. The dear old 47 was a major route back in the day running all the way from Shoreditch to Farnborough but the southern end went years ago and I think the fat lady is at least clearing her throat as far as the rest of the route is concerned. Maybe a local route like the 178 extended from Lewisham to Canada Water? |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Apr 1, 2020 23:02:52 GMT
Iv taken the 1 a few times over the past couple of years and it feels quieter in the Peaks then it did at its peak when the 199 was withdrawn and it was severely overloaded with the Blue Triangle extras. Now it seems it's school time busy and not so at the peaks. I think Canada Water as a whole has wayyy too many buses going from Canada Water to Waterloo Station, providing there is also the Jubilee. I'd honestly like to look into this: The reshaping of the 1, 188 & 381! The problem with this is all three routes more or less take a different routing (ok, the 1 & 188 share Holborn to Tower Bridge Road with each other but then separate away for until Canada Water where the 188 continues on to North Greenwich). Any cut you make to these routes could have serious knock on effects to patronage actually worsening which is something that routinely overlooked and ignored in some cases - same with citing the tube as some sort of replacement when the tube is facing a lengthy period of little investment given the financial situation before and after the pandemic and the fact that capacity on the tube network is getting close to breaking point in places. This equally applies to the 47 - cutting stuff is not like waving a magic wand, there are repercussions particularly on the poorest as 10 years of austerity has shown us. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Apr 2, 2020 7:44:28 GMT
I think the sheer about of roadworks along the route have not helped the 47 either and continued removal of bus lanes/priority measures like Tooley Street having a cycle Lane.
The harsh reality is is that if you improve other transport then there will be a decline in bus usage and this part of South East London has had 3 in the past 20 years. No one is ever saying roads won't have buses along then but the 47, 188 and 381 running parallel from the Rotherhithe Tunnel to Tooley Street is probably way in excess for most of the day particularly when the off peak underground/DLR fare is £1.50 same as the bus.
|
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 2, 2020 9:42:47 GMT
I think the sheer about of roadworks along the route have not helped the 47 either and continued removal of bus lanes/priority measures like Tooley Street having a cycle Lane. The harsh reality is is that if you improve other transport then there will be a decline in bus usage and this part of South East London has had 3 in the past 20 years. No one is ever saying roads won't have buses along then but the 47, 188 and 381 running parallel from the Rotherhithe Tunnel to Tooley Street is probably way in excess for most of the day particularly when the off peak underground/DLR fare is £1.50 same as the bus. Yes any railway improvements are likely to lead to a considerable switch from bus to rail just as the £1.50 off peak zone 2-6 fare has but in the overall scheme of things it can only be a good thing. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Apr 2, 2020 12:49:37 GMT
I think the sheer about of roadworks along the route have not helped the 47 either and continued removal of bus lanes/priority measures like Tooley Street having a cycle Lane. The harsh reality is is that if you improve other transport then there will be a decline in bus usage and this part of South East London has had 3 in the past 20 years. No one is ever saying roads won't have buses along then but the 47, 188 and 381 running parallel from the Rotherhithe Tunnel to Tooley Street is probably way in excess for most of the day particularly when the off peak underground/DLR fare is £1.50 same as the bus. I think your missing my point - for example, it was suggested by someone to completely withdraw the 47 which shows a complete disregard for anyone who uses links that the Overground can't cover or for people who can't use the Overground for various reasons. People continually make the mistake that everyone will simply jump onto the Overground when it's not true at all. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Apr 2, 2020 13:08:28 GMT
I think the sheer about of roadworks along the route have not helped the 47 either and continued removal of bus lanes/priority measures like Tooley Street having a cycle Lane. The harsh reality is is that if you improve other transport then there will be a decline in bus usage and this part of South East London has had 3 in the past 20 years. No one is ever saying roads won't have buses along then but the 47, 188 and 381 running parallel from the Rotherhithe Tunnel to Tooley Street is probably way in excess for most of the day particularly when the off peak underground/DLR fare is £1.50 same as the bus. I think your missing my point - for example, it was suggested by someone to completely withdraw the 47 which shows a complete disregard for anyone who uses links that the Overground can't cover or for people who can't use the Overground for various reasons. People continually make the mistake that everyone will simply jump onto the Overground when it's not true at all. I suggested that there is every likelihood of that happening.........fewer passengers inevitably means fewer buses are needed. |
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Apr 2, 2020 13:40:05 GMT
Throw in the 47 which often arrives at CW from Lewisham full then is fairly empty leaving. The jubilee has definetly taken usage from the 47 plus the LO. The demise of the 47 is a very sad one, it used to be such a vital trunk route to London Bridge and the city but has been killed off north of Canada Water these days. Of course it had a savage frequency reduction and now runs with 3bph on Sundays but I guess the issue is that there is such a mismatch in demand at the two ends of the route its hard to reconcile, wouldn't be surprised if it was altered at some point - I'm not a fan of cutting bus routes but I think that given TfL were hell bent on removing a Shoreditch-London Bridge on, they picked the wrong route in the 48 (although of course they then went and added the 388 to that corridor instead). I'm no expert on the night situation so I'll allow others to comment more informatively on that but as I understand the night Overground has lead to a slump in usage on the 47 at nights, but would be interested to hear more about how the N47/N199 scenario is currently working out. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Apr 2, 2020 14:07:22 GMT
I think the sheer about of roadworks along the route have not helped the 47 either and continued removal of bus lanes/priority measures like Tooley Street having a cycle Lane. The harsh reality is is that if you improve other transport then there will be a decline in bus usage and this part of South East London has had 3 in the past 20 years. No one is ever saying roads won't have buses along then but the 47, 188 and 381 running parallel from the Rotherhithe Tunnel to Tooley Street is probably way in excess for most of the day particularly when the off peak underground/DLR fare is £1.50 same as the bus. I think your missing my point - for example, it was suggested by someone to completely withdraw the 47 which shows a complete disregard for anyone who uses links that the Overground can't cover or for people who can't use the Overground for various reasons. People continually make the mistake that everyone will simply jump onto the Overground when it's not true at all. But even if the 47 withdrawn and it's a big if the most popular links would a retained though diversions, extension etc. Similar to the 48. |
|
