Peak Hours Only.

[Deleted]

Remember the old peak hours only routes, I'm sure most if not all have gone or become full time routes. But in these testing times for tfl financially which routes would you cut back to peak hours only? And any ideas for new P-H only routes.
For the first category I'd have the 357 peak only, it serves a purpose in supporting other routes ie 97, 257,215 but outside peaks I think the route can go.
And a new peak hours route; GANTS HILL STATION, Cranbrook Road, Ilford Station, Romford Road, High Street North, EAST HAM ( Ron Leighton Way)

[wirewiper]

Mar 28, 2020 10:30:33 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Remember the old peak hours only routes, I'm sure most if not all have gone or become full time routes. But in these testing times for tfl financially which routes would you cut back to peak hours only? And any ideas for new P-H only routes.
For the first category I'd have the 357 peak only, it serves a purpose in supporting other routes ie 97, 257,215 but outside peaks I think the route can go.
And a new peak hours route; GANTS HILL STATION, Cranbrook Road, Ilford Station, Romford Road, High Street North, EAST HAM ( Ron Leighton Way)

Most of the remaining "essential travel" is not peaked. The typical 9 to 5 worker is meant to be either furloughed or working from home, most of the essential work and shopping journeys are spread throughout the day. 

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2020 10:37:05 GMT wirewiper said:

Mar 28, 2020 10:30:33 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Remember the old peak hours only routes, I'm sure most if not all have gone or become full time routes. But in these testing times for tfl financially which routes would you cut back to peak hours only? And any ideas for new P-H only routes.
For the first category I'd have the 357 peak only, it serves a purpose in supporting other routes ie 97, 257,215 but outside peaks I think the route can go.
And a new peak hours route; GANTS HILL STATION, Cranbrook Road, Ilford Station, Romford Road, High Street North, EAST HAM ( Ron Leighton Way)

Most of the remaining "essential travel" is not peaked. The typical 9 to 5 worker is meant to be either furloughed or working from home, most of the essential work and shopping journeys are spread throughout the day. 

I wasn't thinking about the current awful situation at all, I meant in normal times which sadly means a financially stretched tfl, which routes could be peak only and any new ideas for peak hours routes.

[greenboy]

Mar 28, 2020 10:30:33 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Remember the old peak hours only routes, I'm sure most if not all have gone or become full time routes. But in these testing times for tfl financially which routes would you cut back to peak hours only? And any ideas for new P-H only routes.
For the first category I'd have the 357 peak only, it serves a purpose in supporting other routes ie 97, 257,215 but outside peaks I think the route can go.
And a new peak hours route; GANTS HILL STATION, Cranbrook Road, Ilford Station, Romford Road, High Street North, EAST HAM ( Ron Leighton Way)

I don't see the problem with peak hour only routes or evenings excepted if it's in line with demand. The 414 could probably be peak hour only and is the 521 really needed after about 8pm?

[george]

Mar 28, 2020 10:50:45 GMT greenboy said:

Mar 28, 2020 10:30:33 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Remember the old peak hours only routes, I'm sure most if not all have gone or become full time routes. But in these testing times for tfl financially which routes would you cut back to peak hours only? And any ideas for new P-H only routes.
For the first category I'd have the 357 peak only, it serves a purpose in supporting other routes ie 97, 257,215 but outside peaks I think the route can go.
And a new peak hours route; GANTS HILL STATION, Cranbrook Road, Ilford Station, Romford Road, High Street North, EAST HAM ( Ron Leighton Way)

I don't see the problem with peak hour only routes or evenings excepted if it's in line with demand. The 414 could probably be peak hour only and is the 521 really needed after about 8pm?

Many bus routes are very quiet during the day time but I still think it's good that they are able to run all day personally. I'll pick the 209 in the morning and evening peaks the route gets packed to standing room only but in the day you'll only get a few people on the route. I use the 17 quite often between City Thameslink and London Bridge and that is extremely quiet of course the route maybe very busy at the other end of the route.

[rif153]

Mar 28, 2020 11:23:44 GMT george said:

Mar 28, 2020 10:50:45 GMT greenboy said:

I don't see the problem with peak hour only routes or evenings excepted if it's in line with demand. The 414 could probably be peak hour only and is the 521 really needed after about 8pm?

Many bus routes are very quiet during the day time but I still think it's good that they are able to run all day personally. I'll pick the 209 in the morning and evening peaks the route gets packed to standing room only but in the day you'll only get a few people on the route. I use the 17 quite often between City Thameslink and London Bridge and that is extremely quiet of course the route maybe very busy at the other end of the route.

I agree. You could say for many routes in London that they should only run during the peaks as they are unsurprisingly not very busy outside the peaks but as work patterns are shifting and becoming less rigid I don't think the case for peak only bus routes is as strong as it once was, I also agree that the routes should still be there despite not being full. There's no route I'd reduce to peak hours only.

[southlondonbus]

Not sure I'd be fully in favour of peak hour only routes but I would support peak hour extensions of routes and peak hour short workings rather then high freqs over the entire route.

[DE20106]

Mar 28, 2020 11:23:44 GMT george said:

Mar 28, 2020 10:50:45 GMT greenboy said:

I don't see the problem with peak hour only routes or evenings excepted if it's in line with demand. The 414 could probably be peak hour only and is the 521 really needed after about 8pm?

Many bus routes are very quiet during the day time but I still think it's good that they are able to run all day personally. I'll pick the 209 in the morning and evening peaks the route gets packed to standing room only but in the day you'll only get a few people on the route. I use the 17 quite often between City Thameslink and London Bridge and that is extremely quiet of course the route maybe very busy at the other end of the route.

Yes I’ve always had that view of the 17, off peak and weekends you never see more than a few people on the bus. Last year though I did take a 17 end-to-end at 5:30 in the evening from London Bridge, just to see how busy it got.

I actually couldn’t believe how much my 17 breezed through Central London at that time, never getting stuck in traffic, only stopping at red lights. I got to Holloway just after 6:10. Loading-wise by the time the bus got onto the Caledonian Road my 17 was carrying a crush load, we couldn’t pick anyone up until Carnegie Street as some people got off there. After that point I totally see why the route runs with deckers, even though a 393-single decker could easily cope on the 17 during the rest of the day!

[greenboy]

There is also the fact that London Overground/Underground has taken a lot of off peak passengers off buses with the £1.50 fare in zone 2-6. I'd rather off peak services were reduced where demand has fallen than routes being withdrawn completely like the 48 was.

[george]

Mar 28, 2020 11:43:33 GMT DE20106 said:

Mar 28, 2020 11:23:44 GMT george said:

Many bus routes are very quiet during the day time but I still think it's good that they are able to run all day personally. I'll pick the 209 in the morning and evening peaks the route gets packed to standing room only but in the day you'll only get a few people on the route. I use the 17 quite often between City Thameslink and London Bridge and that is extremely quiet of course the route maybe very busy at the other end of the route.

Yes I’ve always had that view of the 17, off peak and weekends you never see more than a few people on the bus. Last year though I did take a 17 end-to-end at 5:30 in the evening from London Bridge, just to see how busy it got.

I actually couldn’t believe how much my 17 breezed through Central London at that time, never getting stuck in traffic, only stopping at red lights. I got to Holloway just after 6:10. Loading-wise by the time the bus got onto the Caledonian Road my 17 was carrying a crush load, we couldn’t pick anyone up until Carnegie Street as some people got off there. After that point I totally see why the route runs with deckers, even though a 393-single decker could easily cope on the 17 during the rest of the day!

Oh don't get me wrong I'm sure the 17 does get busy at points but whenever I've seen it there's been very few people on the bus. 

[vjaska]

Mar 28, 2020 10:43:15 GMT @michaellevenson said:

Mar 28, 2020 10:37:05 GMT wirewiper said:

Most of the remaining "essential travel" is not peaked. The typical 9 to 5 worker is meant to be either furloughed or working from home, most of the essential work and shopping journeys are spread throughout the day. 

I wasn't thinking about the current awful situation at all, I meant in normal times which sadly means a financially stretched tfl, which routes could be peak only and any new ideas for peak hours routes.

I still wouldn't turn current routes into peak hours only nor create new ones - the bus network is designed to serve everyone over a big range in terms of hours per day. The 357 is not a great example as it serves a hospital.

[danorak]

I don't think 'peak hours' are so easily defined these days unfortunately. There is a very obvious AM peak (which is why there are restrictions on statutory national concessions and other discounts) but the evening peak on the buses is much longer and shallower. It starts with the schools, who seem to pack up earlier nowadays, and stretches through to late finishing office workers. With schoolchildren having free travel (let's not go there please folks!) the evening peak services would need to start about 2.30 - 3.

[southlondonbus]

Your very right about a less defined evening peak. That's why I would go with short workings over busy sections in the morning. Ie up to every 4 mins North Cheam to Morden then every 6-8 continuing to Putney Bridge.

[busaholic]

Mar 28, 2020 11:43:33 GMT DE20106 said:

Mar 28, 2020 11:23:44 GMT george said:

Many bus routes are very quiet during the day time but I still think it's good that they are able to run all day personally. I'll pick the 209 in the morning and evening peaks the route gets packed to standing room only but in the day you'll only get a few people on the route. I use the 17 quite often between City Thameslink and London Bridge and that is extremely quiet of course the route maybe very busy at the other end of the route.

Yes I’ve always had that view of the 17, off peak and weekends you never see more than a few people on the bus. Last year though I did take a 17 end-to-end at 5:30 in the evening from London Bridge, just to see how busy it got.

I actually couldn’t believe how much my 17 breezed through Central London at that time, never getting stuck in traffic, only stopping at red lights. I got to Holloway just after 6:10. Loading-wise by the time the bus got onto the Caledonian Road my 17 was carrying a crush load, we couldn’t pick anyone up until Carnegie Street as some people got off there. After that point I totally see why the route runs with deckers, even though a 393-single decker could easily cope on the 17 during the rest of the day!

Some things don't change! In the 1970s I regularly travelled in the p.m. peak on what was then the 18 from Kings Cross to London Bridge, with a frequency a little less than today's 17, and the buses were never busy. Holborn people seemed to prefer the Red Arrow 501, whose fare would have been cheaper, to London Bridge. After Ludgate Circus I might be the only one on the bus.

[southlondonbus]

Before 2002 the 17 and 46 terminated at Kings Cross due to low demand in the City plus the 21 terminated at London Bridge.