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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 31, 2020 14:35:25 GMT
I guess rationalisation thought there were enough buses up the old Kent Road. Had it survived then the 53 wouldn't have needed as high a freq as it did in the late 90s (up to every 2-4 mins from Woolwich to Trafalgar Square as it would have had more assistance.
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Post by danorak on Mar 31, 2020 15:24:50 GMT
I guess rationalisation thought there were enough buses up the old Kent Road. Had it survived then the 53 wouldn't have needed as high a freq as it did in the late 90s (up to every 2-4 mins from Woolwich to Trafalgar Square as it would have had more assistance. The 177 had been progressively trimmed back to New Cross Gate at certain times of the week. I suspect there was a perceived need to have a direct Deptford - Peckham service. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 31, 2020 15:36:32 GMT
Yes Peckham to Deptford and Greenwich is quite useful.
Had the original 53/453 plan gone ahead it's likely the 53 would now be operated by London Central out of NX as it would not have been that close to any Stagecoach garage.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 31, 2020 16:01:54 GMT
I know this change occurred some years before but what was the reasoning behind rerouting the 177 to Peckham? Wouldn’t it have been better to have had the 53/177 work together between E&C & Woolwich via two routes It was a useful change at the time as there was no link between Peckham and Deptford. |
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Post by route53 on Mar 31, 2020 17:41:08 GMT
Yes Peckham to Deptford and Greenwich is quite useful. Had the original 53/453 plan gone ahead it's likely the 53 would now be operated by London Central out of NX as it would not have been that close to any Stagecoach garage. Indeed, and it happened anyway I’m reverse, one of the main issues with the 453 under Stagecoach was that it was based in Plumstead meaning it had to often traverse quite a fair few miles carrying air paralleling the 177, there was talk of extending the 453 to either Plumstead (which would have defeated the purpose of the 53 split in the first place and would have been similar to the old 177) or Catford Garage, in the end it was easier for it to be transferred to London Central at New Cross garage. |
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Post by route53 on Mar 31, 2020 17:45:46 GMT
I guess creating a link between Greenwich & Peckham was useful plus there wasn’t much point in duplicating the 53.
It does seem that the 53 was far more favoured than the 177 in terms of what route reached zone 1
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Post by beaver14uk on Mar 31, 2020 17:48:01 GMT
I can't recall now it was a long time ago quote author=" danorak" source="/post/560555/thread" timestamp="1585606935"] The pavement works did happen, you can see them. Ah, so something else must have put a stop to this one then after they'd carried them out. Wonder what it was. The right turn out of Lodge Hill at the Goldie Leigh end always looked like it might have been tricky.[/quote] |
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Post by redexpress on Mar 31, 2020 20:47:46 GMT
Yes Peckham to Deptford and Greenwich is quite useful. Had the original 53/453 plan gone ahead it's likely the 53 would now be operated by London Central out of NX as it would not have been that close to any Stagecoach garage. Indeed, and it happened anyway I’m reverse, one of the main issues with the 453 under Stagecoach was that it was based in Plumstead meaning it had to often traverse quite a fair few miles carrying air paralleling the 177, there was talk of extending the 453 to either Plumstead (which would have defeated the purpose of the 53 split in the first place and would have been similar to the old 177) or Catford Garage, in the end it was easier for it to be transferred to London Central at New Cross garage. I seem to remember that Stagecoach outstationed a few of the 453 bendies in a yard at North Greenwich for a while. Think this may have ceased when the route had a frequency reduction (early 2005 with the 168 extended to Old Kent Road as partial compensation). But yes, most buses had to run to & from Plumstead so it can't have been terribly efficient. |
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Post by TB123 on Mar 31, 2020 21:02:50 GMT
Yes Peckham to Deptford and Greenwich is quite useful. Had the original 53/453 plan gone ahead it's likely the 53 would now be operated by London Central out of NX as it would not have been that close to any Stagecoach garage. Indeed, and it happened anyway I’m reverse, one of the main issues with the 453 under Stagecoach was that it was based in Plumstead meaning it had to often traverse quite a fair few miles carrying air paralleling the 177, there was talk of extending the 453 to either Plumstead (which would have defeated the purpose of the 53 split in the first place and would have been similar to the old 177) or Catford Garage, in the end it was easier for it to be transferred to London Central at New Cross garage. The 453 went to London General at Mandela Way upon tender loss rather than New Cross. Think I read somewhere that Stagecoach proposed to run the service through to Catford garage and run the bendies from there, it had to run to Lewisham anyway to turn around due to the lack of a suitable layover in Deptford |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 31, 2020 21:25:55 GMT
That would have been useful for it to TL and provide new links but would have added alot of capacity to the 47 which may not have been needed.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 1, 2020 8:20:55 GMT
Indeed, and it happened anyway I’m reverse, one of the main issues with the 453 under Stagecoach was that it was based in Plumstead meaning it had to often traverse quite a fair few miles carrying air paralleling the 177, there was talk of extending the 453 to either Plumstead (which would have defeated the purpose of the 53 split in the first place and would have been similar to the old 177) or Catford Garage, in the end it was easier for it to be transferred to London Central at New Cross garage. The 453 went to London General at Mandela Way upon tender loss rather than New Cross. Think I read somewhere that Stagecoach proposed to run the service through to Catford garage and run the bendies from there, it had to run to Lewisham anyway to turn around due to the lack of a suitable layover in Deptford I seem to recall there were proposals to operate the 453 from TL which would seem logical as it terminated at Lewisham albeit out of service. Whether TL was suitable for bendybuses I don't know. At night some drivers went to Blackheath instead to turn around to use the 24 hour tea hut. On a similar theme I remember back in the 90s there was a hired bendybus (from South Yorkshire I think) on the 180 that terminated at TL as the Hither Green terminus (where the 180 went at the time) was deemed unsuitable. |
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Post by danorak on Apr 1, 2020 9:20:10 GMT
I cannot recall now where I read it but I understand that when the 453 was tendered, Stagecoach had a plan to run it from WH. That meant that bendies would be concentrated at a single base, and it was not much different to running dead to TL or PD. An interesting idea but probably not surprising it never happened.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 1, 2020 9:33:52 GMT
The 453 went to London General at Mandela Way upon tender loss rather than New Cross. Think I read somewhere that Stagecoach proposed to run the service through to Catford garage and run the bendies from there, it had to run to Lewisham anyway to turn around due to the lack of a suitable layover in Deptford I seem to recall there were proposals to operate the 453 from TL which would seem logical as it terminated at Lewisham albeit out of service. Whether TL was suitable for bendybuses I don't know. At night some drivers went to Blackheath instead to turn around to use the 24 hour tea hut. On a similar theme I remember back in the 90s there was a hired bendybus (from South Yorkshire I think) on the 180 that terminated at TL as the Hither Green terminus (where the 180 went at the time) was deemed unsuitable. TL was deemed suitable for the bendies, the plan was to swap the 453 and 178/202/380 allocations, so they would cut dead mileage quite substantially, and you'd also boost capacity and open new links with the route going through to Catford. Obviously TfL weren't so keen on the idea so it wasn't a surprise when London General won it. Interestingly I saw that ELBG had planned to order Scania artics for the route had they retained it. Those would have been good to see. |
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Post by busaholic on Apr 1, 2020 12:41:46 GMT
I cannot recall now where I read it but I understand that when the 453 was tendered, Stagecoach had a plan to run it from WH. That meant that bendies would be concentrated at a single base, and it was not much different to running dead to TL or PD. An interesting idea but probably not surprising it never happened. A little matter of the River Thames to cross at some stage, unless they were thinking of dead running from the Marylebone end. It might have made sense to accountants and even engineers to an extent, but operationally it'd have been an absolutely bonkers idea.  |
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Post by redexpress on Apr 1, 2020 13:17:05 GMT
I cannot recall now where I read it but I understand that when the 453 was tendered, Stagecoach had a plan to run it from WH. That meant that bendies would be concentrated at a single base, and it was not much different to running dead to TL or PD. An interesting idea but probably not surprising it never happened. A little matter of the River Thames to cross at some stage, unless they were thinking of dead running from the Marylebone end. It might have made sense to accountants and even engineers to an extent, but operationally it'd have been an absolutely bonkers idea. That's pretty much what I'd have said if someone proposed running the 1 from Dagenham or Hackney... and yet that really happened! |
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