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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2020 22:23:14 GMT
The 253 would have been good actually sharing the corridor with the 29 and 38 to use the same ticket machines. I wonder if the route would have run through or a DD 254 would have still been created.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 19, 2020 22:26:09 GMT
Personally, thank god that very few routes were converted in the end - whilst the Artic was great from a mechanical point of view and I loved the sound they made, the passenger experience on them wasn't great and reminded me of the tube & trains when they're ridiculously crowded. The 507 & 521 were great routes for Artics due to how short they were and their overall purpose but most London routes personally aren't ideal.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 19, 2020 22:44:24 GMT
I found the routes that fared a bit better were the ones that has parallel routes for long sections hence why reaction to the 436 and 453 was fairly positive. It was when then went on to the 18 that things started to change in rewards to how they were received. The 25 was a bad one and the 73.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 19, 2020 22:56:05 GMT
I found the routes that fared a bit better were the ones that has parallel routes for long sections hence why reaction to the 436 and 453 was fairly positive. It was when then went on to the 18 that things started to change in rewards to how they were received. The 25 was a bad one and the 73. The bendies were certainly what the 25 needed, even though they resembled a cattle transporter/Central Line it was the only way to feasibly transport the crowds. Following the decker conversion buses would be waiting at stops for ages, and still do. The service would often crumble due to the extreme crowds following the decker conversion, however First to their credit did do very well. I think the biggest issue the 25 has is that along Romford Road there's a lot of short distance ridership, and people often get forced upstairs so you have people walking up and down the stairs and battling crowds at every single stop. For a child, the 25s bendies were incredibly fun when they weren't extremely overcrowded. I remember once taking the 25 back home from Holborn and the bus was rammed to the rafters through the whole journey. I was holding onto my Mum for dear life on that journey. People swashing from all sides and angles. Luckily we did manage to nab a seat all the way at the back. It's unsurprising to see why they were withdrawn, there was the claim they were a danger to cyclists when not a single one was actually killed by them - effectively making them less dangerous than DDs, but to other road users they must have been total nightmares. I can't imagine how you'd feel when you're in one of their blind spots not knowing where the rear of the bus is going to end up. It's sad to see the 25 in the state it is now, it's still an immensely crowded route. Buses are often standing loads by St Paul's however it's just not the same. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 19, 2020 23:28:58 GMT
I found the routes that fared a bit better were the ones that has parallel routes for long sections hence why reaction to the 436 and 453 was fairly positive. It was when then went on to the 18 that things started to change in rewards to how they were received. The 25 was a bad one and the 73. I found the 436 to be awful personally - after school, I used to ride the 36 a lot which had RM's (and the odd NV appearance) and the difference between riding that and a MAL is so much better even though I'm far from the biggest RM fan out there. The 436 would be rammed solid pretty much all the time as would the 36 but it didn't seem as claustrophobic or tightly packed on a RM or NV in comparison. Using them on a shuttle route at an airport or at the Cobham Bus Rally one year was such a better experience and shows how great they are on these type of runs. With all that said and despite my opinion, I have found this thread thoroughly interesting regarding the proposed routes and other info  |
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Post by Alex on Apr 20, 2020 1:59:33 GMT
Yes, I recall the 472 bendy bus idea being told to me by one of my old managers (a great loss to the line when he moved to pastures new) who was was previously a SE London revenue inspector. The wife remembers the 25 bendy bus days very well. She said at the time she used the 86 from Stratford because it was always empty, for some reason most people wanted to get on an already packed 25....... Paul, they are great posts about the route 453 operation of bendy buses, from what I could gather only senior PD drivers had a chance of getting on there, I read something on the Unite site ages ago about the PD rep (who I gather went to DT*) being a senior driver and driving the 453 as well. Ties in with your dad having 20 years in at the time. * - no this isn't stalkerville. The same guy featured in the Plumstead Delivers DVD and I got on his bus after the 469 went over to Arriva (and he's got a mention on the 469 page at Ian Armstrong)  |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 20, 2020 6:44:29 GMT
Yes, I recall the 472 bendy bus idea being told to me by one of my old managers (a great loss to the line when he moved to pastures new) who was was previously a SE London revenue inspector. The wife remembers the 25 bendy bus days very well. She said at the time she used the 86 from Stratford because it was always empty, for some reason most people wanted to get on an already packed 25....... Paul, they are great posts about the route 453 operation of bendy buses, from what I could gather only senior PD drivers had a chance of getting on there, I read something on the Unite site ages ago about the PD rep (who I gather went to DT*) being a senior driver and driving the 453 as well. Ties in with your dad having 20 years in at the time. * - no this isn't stalkerville. The same guy featured in the Plumstead Delivers DVD and I got on his bus after the 469 went over to Arriva (and he's got a mention on the 469 page at Ian Armstrong) I'd have said the 472 was the ideal sort of route for bendy buses with mostly local journeys. They were certainly interesting buses from an enthusiast perspective but weren't generally well received as the whole concept seemed to be about cramming more passengers into fewer buses with fewer seats. I thought they were a disaster on routes like the 25 and 73. |
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Post by redexpress on Apr 20, 2020 7:52:40 GMT
Yes, I recall the 472 bendy bus idea being told to me by one of my old managers (a great loss to the line when he moved to pastures new) who was was previously a SE London revenue inspector. The wife remembers the 25 bendy bus days very well. She said at the time she used the 86 from Stratford because it was always empty, for some reason most people wanted to get on an already packed 25....... Paul, they are great posts about the route 453 operation of bendy buses, from what I could gather only senior PD drivers had a chance of getting on there, I read something on the Unite site ages ago about the PD rep (who I gather went to DT*) being a senior driver and driving the 453 as well. Ties in with your dad having 20 years in at the time. * - no this isn't stalkerville. The same guy featured in the Plumstead Delivers DVD and I got on his bus after the 469 went over to Arriva (and he's got a mention on the 469 page at Ian Armstrong) Not surprising that the artic routes were the senior routes, given that the drivers were paid a higher rate for some reason. I remember all too well the grumbling from artic drivers when their routes went back to DD, as they now had to do more work for less money (given that artic drivers didn't have to check passes / issue tickets etc). |
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Post by Paul on Apr 20, 2020 8:03:59 GMT
Paul, they are great posts about the route 453 operation of bendy buses, from what I could gather only senior PD drivers had a chance of getting on there, I read something on the Unite site ages ago about the PD rep (who I gather went to DT*) being a senior driver and driving the 453 as well. Ties in with your dad having 20 years in at the time Correct. From what my dad has told me, the company made the decision that they only wanted experienced, senior drivers driving those buses. It makes sense to not let newbies loose on what were quite different buses at the time. My dad also had the benefit of experience driving a tractor and trailer in a previous job and was able to transfer those skills over. The driving assessment for the bendies included a simple ‘reverse backwards in a straight line’ manoeuvre - Dad made it a bit more interesting by adding in a dog leg! He really loved those buses and just how versatile they are/were |
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Post by Alex on Apr 20, 2020 8:39:14 GMT
Not surprising that the artic routes were the senior routes, given that the drivers were paid a higher rate for some reason. I remember all too well the grumbling from artic drivers when their routes went back to DD, as they now had to do more work for less money (given that artic drivers didn't have to check passes / issue tickets etc). Yes - there was a member on here years ago (many, many years ago during ELBG days when we had members like NightdriverN47 on here) who drove the 25 and said the bendy bus rate was really high (I recall something like £18ph - about 12-13 years ago). He also said that it took a long time to get used to the 25 and drivers were getting a lot in overtime as duties finished so late every day. Correct. From what my dad has told me, the company made the decision that they only wanted experienced, senior drivers driving those buses. It makes sense to not let newbies loose on what were quite different buses at the time. My dad also had the benefit of experience driving a tractor and trailer in a previous job and was able to transfer those skills over. The driving assessment for the bendies included a simple ‘reverse backwards in a straight line’ manoeuvre - Dad made it a bit more interesting by adding in a dog leg! He really loved those buses and just how versatile they are/were That sounds excellent, and I can imagine there were other perks of being on the 453 roster - such as the travel time to/from Deptford Bridge on most duties. Didn't 453s run dead and reverse somewhere else though? I've read something about it (again years ago and can't remember where)..... |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 20, 2020 8:43:43 GMT
Not surprising that the artic routes were the senior routes, given that the drivers were paid a higher rate for some reason. I remember all too well the grumbling from artic drivers when their routes went back to DD, as they now had to do more work for less money (given that artic drivers didn't have to check passes / issue tickets etc). Yes - there was a member on here years ago (many, many years ago during ELBG days when we had members like NightdriverN47 on here) who drove the 25 and said the bendy bus rate was really high (I recall something like £18ph - about 12-13 years ago). He also said that it took a long time to get used to the 25 and drivers were getting a lot in overtime as duties finished so late every day. Correct. From what my dad has told me, the company made the decision that they only wanted experienced, senior drivers driving those buses. It makes sense to not let newbies loose on what were quite different buses at the time. My dad also had the benefit of experience driving a tractor and trailer in a previous job and was able to transfer those skills over. The driving assessment for the bendies included a simple ‘reverse backwards in a straight line’ manoeuvre - Dad made it a bit more interesting by adding in a dog leg! He really loved those buses and just how versatile they are/were That sounds excellent, and I can imagine there were other perks of being on the 453 roster - such as the travel time to/from Deptford Bridge on most duties. Didn't 453s run dead and reverse somewhere else though? I've read something about it (again years ago and can't remember where)..... The 453s used to run dead down to Jerrad Street in Lewisham and layover there... Except in evenings when they went elsewhere(Blackheath tea hut springs to mind) because of some unsavoury characters hanging round that area. Obviously there wasn't a suitable stand in Deptford for many years - that arrangement utilised 4 extra buses at enormous cost. Stagecoach put forward a proposal to run the 453 through to Catford garage, running the 453 from there (178, 202, 380 moving the other way) which would have utilised the resources better but TfL rejected it sadly. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 20, 2020 8:44:26 GMT
Not surprising that the artic routes were the senior routes, given that the drivers were paid a higher rate for some reason. I remember all too well the grumbling from artic drivers when their routes went back to DD, as they now had to do more work for less money (given that artic drivers didn't have to check passes / issue tickets etc). Yes - there was a member on here years ago (many, many years ago during ELBG days when we had members like NightdriverN47 on here) who drove the 25 and said the bendy bus rate was really high (I recall something like £18ph - about 12-13 years ago). He also said that it took a long time to get used to the 25 and drivers were getting a lot in overtime as duties finished so late every day. Correct. From what my dad has told me, the company made the decision that they only wanted experienced, senior drivers driving those buses. It makes sense to not let newbies loose on what were quite different buses at the time. My dad also had the benefit of experience driving a tractor and trailer in a previous job and was able to transfer those skills over. The driving assessment for the bendies included a simple ‘reverse backwards in a straight line’ manoeuvre - Dad made it a bit more interesting by adding in a dog leg! He really loved those buses and just how versatile they are/were That sounds excellent, and I can imagine there were other perks of being on the 453 roster - such as the travel time to/from Deptford Bridge on most duties. Didn't 453s run dead and reverse somewhere else though? I've read something about it (again years ago and can't remember where)..... The 453 ran out of service to and from Lewisham to turn around before the Deptford Bridge stand was built. I never really understood why drivers got a higher rate of pay although that was at a time when money was being thrown around like confetti. |
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Post by Paul on Apr 20, 2020 8:51:24 GMT
Correct. From what my dad has told me, the company made the decision that they only wanted experienced, senior drivers driving those buses. It makes sense to not let newbies loose on what were quite different buses at the time. My dad also had the benefit of experience driving a tractor and trailer in a previous job and was able to transfer those skills over. The driving assessment for the bendies included a simple ‘reverse backwards in a straight line’ manoeuvre - Dad made it a bit more interesting by adding in a dog leg! He really loved those buses and just how versatile they are/were That sounds excellent, and I can imagine there were other perks of being on the 453 roster - such as the travel time to/from Deptford Bridge on most duties. Didn't 453s run dead and reverse somewhere else though? I've read something about it (again years ago and can't remember where)..... As has been mentioned, the original stand was on Jerrard Street in Lewisham - I understand the road needed to be strengthened to withstand the weight of the vehicles. At nighttime, when the ‘old’ Lewisham Bus Station stand was virtually empty, a lot of 453 drivers parked up in there for their meal breaks and yes, Dad always used the reversing bays! Come to think of it, whenever I used the old bus station I tended to use the reversing bays as well - although not with a bendy obviously! And yes, the rate of pay was, shall we say, extravagant? Dad had to restrict working rest days because he would have ended up paying the highest rate of tax at the time! |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 20, 2020 8:56:31 GMT
Didnt Go Ahead then have to offer the higher rate of pay from drivers that moved with the 453 and what happened to the higher pay when the bendys went?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 10:32:29 GMT
Didnt Go Ahead then have to offer the higher rate of pay from drivers that moved with the 453 and what happened to the higher pay when the bendys went? Don't know about the 453 but remember hearing Stagecoach wanted as many drivers to transfer to First when they lost the 25 in 2011 because if the higher rate. There as then another rumor First was losing money on the 25 because of this! All canteen talk of course 
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