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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 20, 2020 10:57:31 GMT
Didnt Go Ahead then have to offer the higher rate of pay from drivers that moved with the 453 and what happened to the higher pay when the bendys went? Don't know about the 453 but remember hearing Stagecoach wanted as many drivers to transfer to First when they lost the 25 in 2011 because if the higher rate. There as then another rumor First was losing money on the 25 because of this! All canteen talk of course 
Oh yes, I've certainly heard that one many times before. I wouldn't say it's that unlikely though. Although I was wondering, surely the bendy rate only applies while driving a bendy? Or was it while driving a 25? I do think the higher cost for drivers might have been justified though, bendies on the streets of London is no joke. They need to manouvere around all sorts of corners and roads and you need to drive with confidence too. |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 20, 2020 11:00:51 GMT
Don't know about the 453 but remember hearing Stagecoach wanted as many drivers to transfer to First when they lost the 25 in 2011 because if the higher rate. There as then another rumor First was losing money on the 25 because of this! All canteen talk of course
Oh yes, I've certainly heard that one many times before. I wouldn't say it's that unlikely though. Although I was wondering, surely the bendy rate only applies while driving a bendy? Or was it while driving a 25? I do think the higher cost for drivers might have been justified though, bendies on the streets of London is no joke. They need to manouvere around all sorts of corners and roads and you need to drive with confidence too. It was said in many places that the 25/26/30 were loss making contracts - supposedly the reason why Lea Interchange had to be paired with Westbourne Park as part of the sale process, so there was a viable business to buy! That was mentioned in a book I've got about the Capital Citybus /First Capital business. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 20, 2020 11:04:14 GMT
Oh yes, I've certainly heard that one many times before. I wouldn't say it's that unlikely though. Although I was wondering, surely the bendy rate only applies while driving a bendy? Or was it while driving a 25? I do think the higher cost for drivers might have been justified though, bendies on the streets of London is no joke. They need to manouvere around all sorts of corners and roads and you need to drive with confidence too. It was said in many places that the 25/26/30 were loss making contracts - supposedly the reason why Lea Interchange had to be paired with Westbourne Park as part of the sale process, so there was a viable business to buy! That was mentioned in a book I've got about the Capital Citybus /First Capital business. There was also the rumour that Stagecoach were close to buying out LI but then turned away for some reason. Either due to some doubts they had or an inflated price asked by First. It does then come as no surprise that the 25, 26 and 30 which all came together in 2011 will all be with different operators from next month, away from LI. |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 20, 2020 11:23:30 GMT
It was said in many places that the 25/26/30 were loss making contracts - supposedly the reason why Lea Interchange had to be paired with Westbourne Park as part of the sale process, so there was a viable business to buy! That was mentioned in a book I've got about the Capital Citybus /First Capital business. There was also the rumour that Stagecoach were close to buying out LI but then turned away for some reason. Either due to some doubts they had or an inflated price asked by First. It does then come as no surprise that the 25, 26 and 30 which all came together in 2011 will all be with different operators from next month, away from LI. Stagecoach were looking at buying Dagenham and Lea Interchange but the price First wanted was seen to be unrealistic. Go-ahead were willing to pay a decent price(£14 million) for Northumberland Park as most of the contracts had at least 3 years to run with a secure revenue line and growth prospects(which took a bit of rebalancing to achieve) Certainly would have been an interesting move for Stagecoach to buy those garages. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 20, 2020 12:44:49 GMT
Don't know about the 453 but remember hearing Stagecoach wanted as many drivers to transfer to First when they lost the 25 in 2011 because if the higher rate. There as then another rumor First was losing money on the 25 because of this! All canteen talk of course I'm pretty certain that was discussed on here - just put into Google and it seems it was in the old Stagecoach London thread, comes up on the search but the link doesn't come up with anything. |
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Post by VPL630 on Apr 20, 2020 15:47:19 GMT
Artics could not safely do the left turn from Regent Street into Oxford Street although it may have been possible when the road was quiet, a driver on the 73 said they were told not to attempt it and go via Margaret Street and John Princes Street which was OK for a diversion route but not really practical for a regular service. If it was unsafe to make the turn then my father, with around 20 years bus driving experience at that time, would not have done it. The problem with those buses was people with no experience of driving them telling drivers what they could and couldn’t do with them. My dad drove them every day for five years and knew exactly how manoeuvrable they were and exactly where they could and couldn’t go. He was even showing Go Ahead drivers how to drive them after Stagecoach lost the 453 I'm more than sure they could easily make the turn but the problem/issue being is when making that turn you would have a reduced view in your N/S mirror and obviously due to the extended length, more risk of an accident happening. The quote from Merc was anywhere a 12M Ridgid could go, these could go as well, they had an amazing steering lock and turning circle, I would have loved to drive them in service Used to love getting on the 29's when they were driven like this |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 20, 2020 17:51:47 GMT
If it was unsafe to make the turn then my father, with around 20 years bus driving experience at that time, would not have done it. The problem with those buses was people with no experience of driving them telling drivers what they could and couldn’t do with them. My dad drove them every day for five years and knew exactly how manoeuvrable they were and exactly where they could and couldn’t go. He was even showing Go Ahead drivers how to drive them after Stagecoach lost the 453 I'm more than sure they could easily make the turn but the problem/issue being is when making that turn you would have a reduced view in your N/S mirror and obviously due to the extended length, more risk of an accident happening. The quote from Merc was anywhere a 12M Ridgid could go, these could go as well, they had an amazing steering lock and turning circle, I would have loved to drive them in service Used to love getting on the 29's when they were driven like this Yes I'm sure it could be done by straddling two lanes but any sort of mishap and the driver is in trouble if they've been told to follow the official diversionary route. It certainly wouldn't pass muster for a regular bendy bus service, it was tight with a 10.5m double decker. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 20, 2020 22:19:34 GMT
The 253 would have been good actually sharing the corridor with the 29 and 38 to use the same ticket machines. I wonder if the route would have run through or a DD 254 would have still been created. I am not sure if it would have been Aldgate - Euston, but believe it was just to be the actual 253 part, instead of the 254. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 20, 2020 22:24:54 GMT
Didnt Go Ahead then have to offer the higher rate of pay from drivers that moved with the 453 and what happened to the higher pay when the bendys went? Don't know about the 453 but remember hearing Stagecoach wanted as many drivers to transfer to First when they lost the 25 in 2011 because if the higher rate. There as then another rumor First was losing money on the 25 because of this! All canteen talk of course
It was no rumour, First was losing money, I cannot remember the amount, when the driver transferred they are on as much methods as possible to get at the ex Stagecoach drivers. The atmosphere at [LI] was not nice at all. Some Stagecoach ex25 drivers left, many got fired. The drivers were constantly taking First to court, and lost. IIRC they wanted to be pad the bendy bus rate which was killing First London, especialy as the contract price did not reflect this, I think after 5 months they put them all on the DR24 rate being standard top rate double decker. Overall with the win of the W15, W14 and a few other routes, it helped First, although many of the contracts were just breaking even or losing money. They also had very high overheads and a lot of office staff where other companies didn't have that much staff. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 20, 2020 22:28:09 GMT
It was said in many places that the 25/26/30 were loss making contracts - supposedly the reason why Lea Interchange had to be paired with Westbourne Park as part of the sale process, so there was a viable business to buy! That was mentioned in a book I've got about the Capital Citybus /First Capital business. There was also the rumour that Stagecoach were close to buying out LI but then turned away for some reason. Either due to some doubts they had or an inflated price asked by First. It does then come as no surprise that the 25, 26 and 30 which all came together in 2011 will all be with different operators from next month, away from LI. They were, but First wanted to make a mint out of it. Stagecoach refused to pay what they wanted. In some ways it worked for them by winning a lot of the routes in Romford/Dagenham area that First had which was the final nail in the coffin. I believe over the years Stagecoach's biggest problem was they have focused too much on the eastern half of London. There was so many missed opportunities in West, North London where they flunked. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 21, 2020 14:25:36 GMT
It was no rumour, First was losing money, I cannot remember the amount, when the driver transferred they are on as much methods as possible to get at the ex Stagecoach drivers. The atmosphere at [LI] was not nice at all. Some Stagecoach ex25 drivers left, many got fired. The drivers were constantly taking First to court, and lost. IIRC they wanted to be pad the bendy bus rate which was killing First London, especialy as the contract price did not reflect this, I think after 5 months they put them all on the DR24 rate being standard top rate double decker. That explains something for me, a while ago there was a site with LI's duty cards and most rotas on it (it's disappeared since though) and I did notice that the 25 had two main sets of cards and rosters. One was 'Stagecoach' and one was 'Tower' with the Stagecoach ones all at 7:36 length (I think). The Tower ones however were much longer, especially the Bow sign-on duties. Many of those (Bow) were 12 hours sign-on to sign-off with driving over the whole length with two meal breaks. From what I can gather LI isn't the happiest place at the best of times, recalling their industrial action a few years ago (can't remember if it was 2015 or 2016)..... |
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Post by DE20106 on Apr 21, 2020 15:12:38 GMT
It was no rumour, First was losing money, I cannot remember the amount, when the driver transferred they are on as much methods as possible to get at the ex Stagecoach drivers. The atmosphere at [LI] was not nice at all. Some Stagecoach ex25 drivers left, many got fired. The drivers were constantly taking First to court, and lost. IIRC they wanted to be pad the bendy bus rate which was killing First London, especialy as the contract price did not reflect this, I think after 5 months they put them all on the DR24 rate being standard top rate double decker. That explains something for me, a while ago there was a site with LI's duty cards and most rotas on it (it's disappeared since though) and I did notice that the 25 had two main sets of cards and rosters. One was 'Stagecoach' and one was 'Tower' with the Stagecoach ones all at 7:36 length (I think). The Tower ones however were much longer, especially the Bow sign-on duties. Many of those (Bow) were 12 hours sign-on to sign-off with driving over the whole length with two meal breaks. From what I can gather LI isn't the happiest place at the best of times, recalling their industrial action a few years ago (can't remember if it was 2015 or 2016)..... TfL published a report on the Tower Transit strike, with TfL saying it was due to ‘employment conditions’. This was both at LI and X. That’s all I’m going to say on the matter, I’ve read things on other sights about this but I’m not going to report on them as I’m unsure of their reliability, this coming from TfL themselves is probably as reliable as it can get. tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2016/august/advice-to-bus-passengers-during-planned-industrial-action-on-tower-transit |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 21, 2020 15:47:27 GMT
That explains something for me, a while ago there was a site with LI's duty cards and most rotas on it (it's disappeared since though) and I did notice that the 25 had two main sets of cards and rosters. One was 'Stagecoach' and one was 'Tower' with the Stagecoach ones all at 7:36 length (I think). The Tower ones however were much longer, especially the Bow sign-on duties. Many of those (Bow) were 12 hours sign-on to sign-off with driving over the whole length with two meal breaks. From what I can gather LI isn't the happiest place at the best of times, recalling their industrial action a few years ago (can't remember if it was 2015 or 2016)..... TfL published a report on the Tower Transit strike, with TfL saying it was due to ‘employment conditions’. This was both at LI and X. That’s all I’m going to say on the matter, I’ve read things on other sights about this but I’m not going to report on them as I’m unsure of their reliability, this coming from TfL themselves is probably as reliable as it can get. tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2016/august/advice-to-bus-passengers-during-planned-industrial-action-on-tower-transitNot for me to comment on how other operators do things but there's a article I read about Tower Transit and employment conditions etc that certainly was questionable in my eyes. I'll attach it beneath. socialistworker.co.uk/art/43284/London+bus+strike+rattles+bullying+boss |
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Post by beaver14uk on Apr 21, 2020 15:54:01 GMT
[ I think all these operators are as bad as each other. quote author=" TB123" source="/post/565261/thread" timestamp="1587484047"] Not for me to comment on how other operators do things but there's a article I read about Tower Transit and employment conditions etc that certainly was questionable in my eyes. I'll attach it beneath. socialistworker.co.uk/art/43284/London+bus+strike+rattles+bullying+boss[/quote] |
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Post by Alex on Apr 21, 2020 15:56:52 GMT
Well yes.....the bit I missed out was that I actually went to LI with a good luck card from our union branch and chatted to a few people down there. There was a lot of people on the picket line. The atmosphere was really good though, they had music and a tent with food cooking in it. They even gave me food and some drinks bottles to take with me.
I will agree that some of the things I was told are probably best not repeated on a public forum.
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