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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 23, 2020 15:22:01 GMT
I've wondered that if the 433 was to be extended to West Croydon could the 455 be sliced at Croydon Town Centre & stand in the old 433 stands?
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 23, 2020 15:22:32 GMT
The 359 being extended to Waddon Marsh would unnecessarily elongate it unless its withdrawn around the Monks Hill estate which in my view is ill advised. The 312 running between Old Lodge Lane and Crystal Palace would also be overkill, unless both are separate proposals. These are just ideas for the moment but will be interesting to see if any of these come to fruition. Would love to see the proposed new route between Kenley and Waddon Marsh receive approval. It mentions that this is subject to a route test and it would be interesting to see a route up the top of Kenley. Rerouting the 434 away from its current area though would leave Northwood Avenue and Oaks way, as well as Kenley Road unserved by a bus route and would defeat the objective of the whole study which is trying to improve the current bus provision around these areas, and the 359 being extended to Waddon Marsh whilst retaining its current route structure has the potential to cause the same reliability issues that the 455 currently faces. The 359 being extended to Waddon Marsh would only require one extra bus - it would have a 2hr cycle trip time with a decent amount of recovery time. At the moment most 359s get about 25 minutes recovery time at Purley. I think it's quite a neat little idea. Far cheaper than introducing a new link from somewhere like Kenley which would probably require a 2 or 3 PVR. Not to mention the 359 providing stronger links. Many of these changes are probably as much as 10 years off - most of it depends not on TfL's situation but how the property market plays out after this crisis. Most of the changes proposed are subject to S106 funding from the developers of the 40,000 new homes proposed (Mostly in the south) of Croydon borough over the next 17 years. I did wonder about the large recovery time the 359 currently gets at Purley, maybe that could work in its favour? It would require a frequency increase though IMO as once things return to normal traffic on the Purley Way can be a nightmare. I don't blame TfL for proposing to reroute it away from its current Hail and Ride section between Purley and Whyteleafe Station as there are loads of parked cars around there that has been an issue for years. It has also been the reason why the 434 still has Hail and Ride. The residents of the Hail and Ride section between Kenley and Whyteleafe Stations are within walking distance to both stations. But these changes will leave residents of Oaks Road and Northwood Avenue without a service, although you could walk the entire road within 20 minutes. Therefore if TfL still wish to serve this areas and serve Higher Drive, they may need to consider bringing a third route into Kenley. Perhaps the 455 could be a possibility if plans changed to withdraw it south of West Croydon |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2020 15:45:15 GMT
The 359 being extended to Waddon Marsh would only require one extra bus - it would have a 2hr cycle trip time with a decent amount of recovery time. At the moment most 359s get about 25 minutes recovery time at Purley. I think it's quite a neat little idea. Far cheaper than introducing a new link from somewhere like Kenley which would probably require a 2 or 3 PVR. Not to mention the 359 providing stronger links. Many of these changes are probably as much as 10 years off - most of it depends not on TfL's situation but how the property market plays out after this crisis. Most of the changes proposed are subject to S106 funding from the developers of the 40,000 new homes proposed (Mostly in the south) of Croydon borough over the next 17 years. I did wonder about the large recovery time the 359 currently gets at Purley, maybe that could work in its favour? It would require a frequency increase though IMO as once things return to normal traffic on the Purley Way can be a nightmare. I don't blame TfL for proposing to reroute it away from its current Hail and Ride section between Purley and Whyteleafe Station as there are loads of parked cars around there that has been an issue for years. It has also been the reason why the 434 still has Hail and Ride. The residents of the Hail and Ride section between Kenley and Whyteleafe Stations are within walking distance to both stations. But these changes will leave residents of Oaks Road and Northwood Avenue without a service, although you could walk the entire road within 20 minutes. Therefore if TfL still wish to serve this areas and serve Higher Drive, they may need to consider bringing a third route into Kenley. Perhaps the 455 could be a possibility if plans changed to withdraw it south of West Croydon The next step up for the 359 would be going to 3bph - you could just about do it within 5 buses sweating some of that existing recovery time - but that would cost £450,000 and probably be a pretty ropey service with unfeasible recovery times with the present road infrastructure - 6 buses would be more ideal but at even greater cost. If proposed bus priority was introduced, then that would have a transformational impact on reliability and consistency of journey times for not just a proposed 359 (which could then use 5 buses) but also the existing 119, 289, 407, 410 etc. 12,000 new homes and commercial units and all the new residents and jobs that will bring are gonna need good public transport links as there is simply no space for more cars or car parking spaces along the A23 and the proposed development sites, nor should we ruin green spaces and homes for more road space, when there's plenty that can be repurposed for more efficient use - like bus lanes! |
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Apr 23, 2020 15:46:56 GMT
In the foreseeable future, the only change I see happening is the 166/312/455 changes which is good as I really like the idea. The 455 is in its current form is way too long to be giving a reliable service along its route. Extending route 312 gives the route also gives the route more of a purpose connecting Norwood Junction to Purley.
Some interesting proposals and statistics in this document about regarding the Croydon bus network. Enjoyed reading it.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2020 15:52:43 GMT
In the foreseeable future, the only change I see happening is the 166/312/455 changes which is good as I really like the idea. The 455 is in its current form is way too long to be giving a reliable service along its route. Extending route 312 gives the route also gives the route more of a purpose connecting Norwood Junction to Purley. Some interesting proposals and statistics in this document about regarding the Croydon bus network. Enjoyed reading it. I was sceptical about those 166/312/455 changes but having dug into the data in this, I'm actually quite impressed. Overall pretty good news for areas like Old Lodge Lane as well as providing a more consistent level of direct buses between Purley and Croydon. Croydon has done pretty well for extra bus services over the last 5 years despite the plethora of cutbacks elsewhere. Hence why Croydon is the only borough where bus usage continues to rise year-on-year. |
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Post by londonboy71 on Apr 23, 2020 16:57:07 GMT
content.tfl.gov.uk/croydon-bus-study.pdfThis has just dropped on the TfL website. Interesting reading - and confirms the rumoured 166/312/455 changes are indeed being developed. As is the long-rumoured plan to extend the 433 to West Croydon via Roman Way. The heavily lobbied 312 extension to Crystal Palace also mentioned. 359 extended to Waddon Marsh is a consideration, as is diverting the 434 via Higher Drive. Some interesting bits within it. The 197/410 rerouting I was told about over a year ago appears to have been dismissed due to broken links. Link has been blocked!! |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2020 17:03:22 GMT
content.tfl.gov.uk/croydon-bus-study.pdfThis has just dropped on the TfL website. Interesting reading - and confirms the rumoured 166/312/455 changes are indeed being developed. As is the long-rumoured plan to extend the 433 to West Croydon via Roman Way. The heavily lobbied 312 extension to Crystal Palace also mentioned. 359 extended to Waddon Marsh is a consideration, as is diverting the 434 via Higher Drive. Some interesting bits within it. The 197/410 rerouting I was told about over a year ago appears to have been dismissed due to broken links. Link has been blocked!! I've got it saved as a download. I'll attach it to a post. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2020 17:09:30 GMT
Clearly the thinking was for the 312 and 363 to swap stands, nice idea on paper but horrendously wasteful. Presumably the 363 would go via the 157 route to avoid the low bridge? May as well extend the 363 to Croydon instead and just run the 157 between Croydon and Morden but then more stand space will be needed in Croydon and so it goes on. Extending the 363 to Croydon would make it far too long whilst unnecessarily breaking links on the 157 at the same time. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 23, 2020 17:10:18 GMT
Just worked for me  |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2020 17:11:33 GMT
Clearly the thinking was for the 312 and 363 to swap stands, nice idea on paper but horrendously wasteful. Presumably the 363 would go via the 157 route to avoid the low bridge? May as well extend the 363 to Croydon instead and just run the 157 between Croydon and Morden but then more stand space will be needed in Croydon and so it goes on. Extending the 363 to Croydon would make it far too long whilst unnecessarily breaking links on the 157 at the same time. It would be about the same length as the 157 is now. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2020 17:21:28 GMT
Extending the 363 to Croydon would make it far too long whilst unnecessarily breaking links on the 157 at the same time. It would be about the same length as the 157 is now. The difference is the 157 has numerous sections that have less traffic than the 363 - it’s not as simple as two routes having the same length as many other variables particularly traffic |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2020 17:26:09 GMT
It would be about the same length as the 157 is now. The difference is the 157 has numerous sections that have less traffic than the 363 - it’s not as simple as two routes having the same length as many other variables particularly traffic There is the potential for traffic problems on both routes..... anyway the 312 extension to Crystal Palace is unlikely to happen. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 23, 2020 17:26:50 GMT
Plus the 363 is very 8 mins now I think which I dont think would be required down to Norwood Junction.
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 23, 2020 17:29:45 GMT
In the foreseeable future, the only change I see happening is the 166/312/455 changes which is good as I really like the idea. The 455 is in its current form is way too long to be giving a reliable service along its route. Extending route 312 gives the route also gives the route more of a purpose connecting Norwood Junction to Purley. Some interesting proposals and statistics in this document about regarding the Croydon bus network. Enjoyed reading it. Agreed, and from reading between the lines the other one that is likely, albeit maybe sometime after the 166/312/455 change is the route via old town. However having said that be interesting to see which route they pick and if something will have to move out of the Bus Station to compensate. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2020 18:06:29 GMT
Plus the 363 is very 8 mins now I think which I dont think would be required down to Norwood Junction. It's every 10 minutes but up to every 8 minutes in peak hours but clearly extending it to Norwood Junction would be a waste of resources anyway unless it replaced another route. |
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