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Post by danorak on Apr 23, 2020 18:15:52 GMT
A bus along Old Town is one of those changes I've considered before. Wouldn't the simplest way of doing this be to send the 264 that way?
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2020 18:18:28 GMT
A bus along Old Town is one of those changes I've considered before. Wouldn't the simplest way of doing this be to send the 264 that way? If you diverted the 264 that way you'd cut off its direct link to West Croydon. Not sure the other part of Roman Way warrants a double decker route either. I've lived on that section for nearly 20 years, and whilst a bus service would be really useful(although not currently possible), I don't think the 264 is the right one - the 433 seems the perfect route to send there imo. |
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Post by beaver14uk on Apr 23, 2020 18:18:59 GMT
Standing on the parade should only be a temp measure and I think technically the stand will only have so much cacacity. We moved the routes out to address capacity issues in the bus station as it was the only option. If stand space is available at Norwood Junction then maybe the 432 could divert at CP to Norwood Junction. Again thou does Church Road really need another route alongside it as well as South Norwood Hill? I think the 312 extension is the best fit - for starters, your breaking the cross Palace link that the 432 provides from Anerley to Central Hill & beyond (something I've used countless times) & the 363 is not only expensive but has its own job to do between Elephant & Palace. The 312 in comparison will be single deck due to the two low bridges it will subsequently run under so will be far less overkill overall and might take pressure off the very busy 410 as it's more direct. Had to laugh about lack of stand space at Palace - it didn't stop them moving the 3 & 227 to stand on the parade so can't see why it suddenly prohibits the 312 from doing the same |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 23, 2020 18:24:35 GMT
Crystal palace was unique for a time that every route terminated there. Then 450 came and passed through and the 249 and 432 were extended out of it. Never knew if there is a reason so many routes terminate there.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2020 18:37:47 GMT
Crystal palace was unique for a time that every route terminated there. Then 450 came and passed through and the 249 and 432 were extended out of it. Never knew if there is a reason so many routes terminate there. Just a convenient place to terminate buses I guess....... there was a through service number 186 years ago but it was long before my time. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Apr 23, 2020 20:57:00 GMT
Crystal palace was unique for a time that every route terminated there. Then 450 came and passed through and the 249 and 432 were extended out of it. Never knew if there is a reason so many routes terminate there. N3 ? |
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Post by localet44 on Apr 24, 2020 7:22:30 GMT
Crystal palace was unique for a time that every route terminated there. Then 450 came and passed through and the 249 and 432 were extended out of it. Never knew if there is a reason so many routes terminate there. Just a convenient place to terminate buses I guess....... there was a through service number 186 years ago but it was long before my time. The 186 operated across Crystal Palace from May 1957 to withdrawal in July 1964. It operated from Woolwich to Crystal Palce daily extending Mondays to Saturdays to Victoria via Tulse Hill. |
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Post by busaholic on Apr 24, 2020 15:26:58 GMT
Just a convenient place to terminate buses I guess....... there was a through service number 186 years ago but it was long before my time. The 186 operated across Crystal Palace from May 1957 to withdrawal in July 1964. It operated from Woolwich to Crystal Palce daily extending Mondays to Saturdays to Victoria via Tulse Hill. I don't claim to remember it well, but I certainly not only remember the 186 but bus spotted it for hours at a time at both Eltham Green and Crystal Palace, using it to travel between the two locations. Through journeys weren't very frequent, the Crystal Palace to Woolwich section was always double the frequency, often triple. I believe the old 49 used to cross the Palace down to Lewisham too, but that was before even my time!  |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 24, 2020 17:21:06 GMT
I see TfL are contradicting themselves by saying the 455 is very long - didn't stop them extending other routes with reliability or issues with heavy traffic (hello 88 & upcoming 112 extension) or failing to restructure other routes with similar problems (greetings the 11). Maybe actually try reducing the amount of traffic on the roads first - I mean the 289 has struggled with reliability issues for years but still runs Purley to Elmers End as it has done for ages now.
As for the others, the 433 going via Old Town is an interesting one and I can see a case for that one due to how poorly served it is - providing stop locations could be tricky though I can see one going up towards West Croydon near the Flyover as there is some room there. It looks tricky to provide one towards Addington Village though.
TfL admit removing the 289 & 455 from Waddon Marsh caused a fall in demand - not being funny but I thought that was obvious myself - just shows how passengers value how close a bus can get to their ultimate destination. Maybe look at some bus priority so these two routes can return can exit the road back onto Purley Way at the expense of other traffic - won't happen but would be nice. The issue with extending any route up from Purley is it basically leaves the 289 stuck as a single decker route and could mess with reliability of the chosen extended route - 359 would be a decent choice though it doesn't serve Kenley.
The 312 extension to Palace is a nice idea, just a shame there is no stand space - an alternative idea that hasn't been mentioned is extend the 322 to Norwood Junction and stand with the 196. The buses might be smaller but should be enough though of course, the 322 should be using longer buses by now anyway.
This new Crystal Palace to Croydon route is a little odd but interesting - it follows the 249 to Norbury Hill, then runs onto Green Lane and follows the 250 (unclear as to what direction it goes to reach London Road) to St. James Road before running along there and entering Croydon via Wellesley Road with a possible extension via the 433 proposal (probably an alternative rather than run together) then via Duppas Hill, Waddon, Purley Way to the Collonades. The odd bit is it's to supplement the 109 on London Road yet London Road is significantly stocked already at the southern end so the only way I could think is from Norbury Hill, it runs up Green Lane, then into Norbury but surely Norbury would of been mentioned?
Don't like the 197 & 410 proposal one bit - the amount of broken links says it all.
A mixed bag in my opinion, some good and some not so but certainly some interesting ones.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2020 17:34:04 GMT
I can't work out what the 197 and 410 changes would be or the purpose.
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 24, 2020 17:56:47 GMT
I see TfL are contradicting themselves by saying the 455 is very long - didn't stop them extending other routes with reliability or issues with heavy traffic (hello 88 & upcoming 112 extension) or failing to restructure other routes with similar problems (greetings the 11). Maybe actually try reducing the amount of traffic on the roads first - I mean the 289 has struggled with reliability issues for years but still runs Purley to Elmers End as it has done for ages now. As for the others, the 433 going via Old Town is an interesting one and I can see a case for that one due to how poorly served it is - providing stop locations could be tricky though I can see one going up towards West Croydon near the Flyover as there is some room there. It looks tricky to provide one towards Addington Village though. TfL admit removing the 289 & 455 from Waddon Marsh caused a fall in demand - not being funny but I thought that was obvious myself - just shows how passengers value how close a bus can get to their ultimate destination. Maybe look at some bus priority so these two routes can return can exit the road back onto Purley Way at the expense of other traffic - won't happen but would be nice. The issue with extending any route up from Purley is it basically leaves the 289 stuck as a single decker route and could mess with reliability of the chosen extended route - 359 would be a decent choice though it doesn't serve Kenley. The 312 extension to Palace is a nice idea, just a shame there is no stand space - an alternative idea that hasn't been mentioned is extend the 322 to Norwood Junction and stand with the 196. The buses might be smaller but should be enough though of course, the 322 should be using longer buses by now anyway. This new Crystal Palace to Croydon route is a little odd but interesting - it follows the 249 to Norbury Hill, then runs onto Green Lane and follows the 250 (unclear as to what direction it goes to reach London Road) to St. James Road before running along there and entering Croydon via Wellesley Road with a possible extension via the 433 proposal (probably an alternative rather than run together) then via Duppas Hill, Waddon, Purley Way to the Collonades. The odd bit is it's to supplement the 109 on London Road yet London Road is significantly stocked already at the southern end so the only way I could think is from Norbury Hill, it runs up Green Lane, then into Norbury but surely Norbury would of been mentioned? Don't like the 197 & 410 proposal one bit - the amount of broken links says it all. A mixed bag in my opinion, some good and some not so but certainly some interesting ones. The 312 extension, New Addington change, Crystal Palace to Croydon, 197/410 changes are all labelled as 'Idea not currently feasible' meaning they have next to no chance of happening 166/312/455 change seems to be the most advanced of any of the changes. £17m was granted to Old Town as part of The Liveable Neighbourhoods bid. Would expect any changes to be implemented as part of this bigger project. Waddon Marsh route, Kenley changes are the only other proposals marked ' Idea under consideration' and to be honest not holding my breathe for any movement in the short to medium term on either of these proposals. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2020 18:12:01 GMT
Look at how Cane Hill got scaled down from the 3bph on the 434 that would link to Coulsdon and Purley with a rumour then of the 455 even better proving 3bph to Purley and Croydon where people actually want to go. All they have now is a link to Coulsdon town centre then off in a totally different direction. Dont get me wrong it's still good to have a bus down to Cane Hill and I'm not slagging it off but I feel it was a bit why bother if your not going to do something properly.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 25, 2020 4:44:50 GMT
A bus along Old Town is one of those changes I've considered before. Wouldn't the simplest way of doing this be to send the 264 that way? I would have thought so, or maybe the 154. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 25, 2020 4:47:24 GMT
I can't work out what the 197 and 410 changes would be or the purpose. I can only assume it was to increase capacity on the current 410 route, it does seem quite bizarre though. |
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 25, 2020 7:20:51 GMT
A bus along Old Town is one of those changes I've considered before. Wouldn't the simplest way of doing this be to send the 264 that way? I would have thought so, or maybe the 154. The aim seems to be to connect it to East Croydon ... neither 154 or 264 do that. |
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