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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 15, 2022 9:55:39 GMT
Well to some extent Sadiq khan is also to blame. The fare freeze was his glorious (communistic) idea, nothing comes for free frankly. Now no one could have predicted covid but that definitely created a hole It's true that Sadiq's measures saw £150 million off TfL's finances per year. But let's not forget Boris the babbling crybaby convincing government in 2016 that TfL doesn't need its annual £270 million grant. Why? Because it was apparent Zac Goldsmith wouldn't clinch the Tory mayoral win. The goose is just as bad as the gander. You say this, but then maybe Boris would have put fares in the tune to have made that money, so would not have needed the grant. You seem to forget that Khan spent money setting up ULEZ expansion etc which cost money and has not raised money, went on a cancel culture over fast food adverts, costing money, did the hopper fare that cost money and also froze fares that cost money. Andy Byford has said that TfL would be self sufficient next year, so then it goes to show it can be done if not doing stupid tactics for self gain. The only cry baby is Khan with his begging bowl
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 15, 2022 10:17:44 GMT
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Post by enviroPB on Jun 15, 2022 20:19:11 GMT
It's true that Sadiq's measures saw £150 million off TfL's finances per year. But let's not forget Boris the babbling crybaby convincing government in 2016 that TfL doesn't need its annual £270 million grant. Why? Because it was apparent Zac Goldsmith wouldn't clinch the Tory mayoral win. The goose is just as bad as the gander. You say this, but then maybe Boris would have put fares in the tune to have made that money, so would not have needed the grant. You seem to forget that Khan spent money setting up ULEZ expansion etc which cost money and has not raised money, went on a cancel culture over fast food adverts, costing money, did the hopper fare that cost money and also froze fares that cost money. Andy Byford has said that TfL would be self sufficient next year, so then it goes to show it can be done if not doing stupid tactics for self gain. The only cry baby is Khan with his begging bowl All the signs in the political water meant the Tories won't control City Hall after Johnson, so his the team behind Zac leant on a disgusting campaign. That's what led for Boris to pull the £270m grant. Though Khan's incompetence presiding over TfL is becoming more posthumous to me, the Oliver Twist handouts from the government is a clear power play. Give TfL a lump of money in one bailout not more, and they can plan for going concern and run the company a bit more efficiently. Clearly Train Daddy* is steering the rotting ship out of choppy waters through good management. Part of me thinks it's because the Mayor has quietly stepped away from the running of TfL, very likely for him to not get bad PR. *That's Andy Byford's nickname from the States, I find it hilarious!
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 15, 2022 21:09:40 GMT
You say this, but then maybe Boris would have put fares in the tune to have made that money, so would not have needed the grant. You seem to forget that Khan spent money setting up ULEZ expansion etc which cost money and has not raised money, went on a cancel culture over fast food adverts, costing money, did the hopper fare that cost money and also froze fares that cost money. Andy Byford has said that TfL would be self sufficient next year, so then it goes to show it can be done if not doing stupid tactics for self gain. The only cry baby is Khan with his begging bowl All the signs in the political water meant the Tories won't control City Hall after Johnson, so his the team behind Zac leant on a disgusting campaign. That's what led for Boris to pull the £270m grant. Though Khan's incompetence presiding over TfL is becoming more posthumous to me, the Oliver Twist handouts from the government is a clear power play. Give TfL a lump of money in one bailout not more, and they can plan for going concern and run the company a bit more efficiently. Clearly Train Daddy* is steering the rotting ship out of choppy waters through good management. Part of me thinks it's because the Mayor has quietly stepped away from the running of TfL, very likely for him to not get bad PR. *That's Andy Byford's nickname from the States, I find it hilarious! Your point would stand if it wasn’t agreed in 2013, well before Zach Goldsmith declared his intentions, that TfL would have to become self sufficient in the very near future. Whilst it happened quicker than expected to say it was a decision taken solely by BJ as a result of Goldsmiths impending loss at the time is a stretch. Especially when the plan was instigated by the then Secretary of State and not BJ himself.
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 16, 2022 8:18:36 GMT
You say this, but then maybe Boris would have put fares in the tune to have made that money, so would not have needed the grant. You seem to forget that Khan spent money setting up ULEZ expansion etc which cost money and has not raised money, went on a cancel culture over fast food adverts, costing money, did the hopper fare that cost money and also froze fares that cost money. Andy Byford has said that TfL would be self sufficient next year, so then it goes to show it can be done if not doing stupid tactics for self gain. The only cry baby is Khan with his begging bowl All the signs in the political water meant the Tories won't control City Hall after Johnson, so his the team behind Zac leant on a disgusting campaign. That's what led for Boris to pull the £270m grant. Though Khan's incompetence presiding over TfL is becoming more posthumous to me, the Oliver Twist handouts from the government is a clear power play. Give TfL a lump of money in one bailout not more, and they can plan for going concern and run the company a bit more efficiently. Clearly Train Daddy* is steering the rotting ship out of choppy waters through good management. Part of me thinks it's because the Mayor has quietly stepped away from the running of TfL, very likely for him to not get bad PR. *That's Andy Byford's nickname from the States, I find it hilarious! The reason for the succession of bailouts was because the course of the virus - and the political, economic and social reactions to it - changed and evolved over time. Don't forget we were slow into the first lockdown and the government seemed to think we would be back to normal after twelve weeks. Outside London bus operators are still able to receive Bus Recovery Grant until October, this having been extended from April due to the discovery of the extent of the Omicron variant. We have a Transport Secretary who really is not on top of his brief, and probably distracted at the moment by the crises in the rail and airline industries. He doesn't care about Londoners and TfL.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 16, 2022 10:47:24 GMT
London transport network failing to meet bailout savings, minister saysTransport for London (TfL) is failing to meet savings targets imposed as part of its latest emergency bailout deal, the transport secretary has said.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61821987
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Post by enviroPB on Jun 16, 2022 13:30:39 GMT
All the signs in the political water meant the Tories won't control City Hall after Johnson, so his the team behind Zac leant on a disgusting campaign. That's what led for Boris to pull the £270m grant. Though Khan's incompetence presiding over TfL is becoming more posthumous to me, the Oliver Twist handouts from the government is a clear power play. Give TfL a lump of money in one bailout not more, and they can plan for going concern and run the company a bit more efficiently. Clearly Train Daddy* is steering the rotting ship out of choppy waters through good management. Part of me thinks it's because the Mayor has quietly stepped away from the running of TfL, very likely for him to not get bad PR. *That's Andy Byford's nickname from the States, I find it hilarious! The reason for the succession of bailouts was because the course of the virus - and the political, economic and social reactions to it - changed and evolved over time. Don't forget we were slow into the first lockdown and the government seemed to think we would be back to normal after twelve weeks. Outside London bus operators are still able to receive Bus Recovery Grant until October, this having been extended from April due to the discovery of the extent of the Omicron variant. We have a Transport Secretary who really is not on top of his brief, and probably distracted at the moment by the crises in the rail and airline industries. He doesn't care about Londoners and TfL. The first part may be true and I'm inclined to agree on that, but specifically the past couple months compared to the past 2 years have shown bailouts to be somewhat constant. Other sectors like aviation for example haven't seen the same kind of treatment. It's fair to comment that on all counts, not supporting a body like TfL would be a foolish move on the government's part. Crippling TfL is in effect stifling growth for the country. We all know about subpar management in the past few years, things have turned around of course. Still, no need to punish TfL, and in turn customers, in the present because of the past.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2022 14:03:21 GMT
The reason for the succession of bailouts was because the course of the virus - and the political, economic and social reactions to it - changed and evolved over time. Don't forget we were slow into the first lockdown and the government seemed to think we would be back to normal after twelve weeks. Outside London bus operators are still able to receive Bus Recovery Grant until October, this having been extended from April due to the discovery of the extent of the Omicron variant. We have a Transport Secretary who really is not on top of his brief, and probably distracted at the moment by the crises in the rail and airline industries. He doesn't care about Londoners and TfL. The first part may be true and I'm inclined to agree on that, but specifically the past couple months compared to the past 2 years have shown bailouts to be somewhat constant. Other sectors like aviation for example haven't seen the same kind of treatment. It's fair to comment that on all counts, not supporting a body like TfL would be a foolish move on the government's part. Crippling TfL is in effect stifling growth for the country. We all know about subpar management in the past few years, things have turned around of course. Still, no need to punish TfL, and in turn customers, in the present because of the past. The DfT's ultimate goal is to oust Khan and run TfL (and transport in general across the UK) into the ground to echo what the rest of the government is currently doing in many parts of it's policies in other sectors. But first, they need to make it all look like it's solely Khan's fault (he takes a chunk of the blame, not 100% despite my dislike for him) and exonerate themselves from any blame Boris style by lying. As you can tell, some others on here have completely fallen for the bait
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 16, 2022 14:09:58 GMT
The reason for the succession of bailouts was because the course of the virus - and the political, economic and social reactions to it - changed and evolved over time. Don't forget we were slow into the first lockdown and the government seemed to think we would be back to normal after twelve weeks. Outside London bus operators are still able to receive Bus Recovery Grant until October, this having been extended from April due to the discovery of the extent of the Omicron variant. We have a Transport Secretary who really is not on top of his brief, and probably distracted at the moment by the crises in the rail and airline industries. He doesn't care about Londoners and TfL. The first part may be true and I'm inclined to agree on that, but specifically the past couple months compared to the past 2 years have shown bailouts to be somewhat constant. Other sectors like aviation for example haven't seen the same kind of treatment. It's fair to comment that on all counts, not supporting a body like TfL would be a foolish move on the government's part. Crippling TfL is in effect stifling growth for the country. We all know about subpar management in the past few years, things have turned around of course. Still, no need to punish TfL, and in turn customers, in the present because of the past. Explain how not investing in TfL is stifling growth in the UK. It gets said often enough but never expanded on. Shouldn’t the government be looking at growth cities like Manchester and Birmingham to avoid the London centric system we have. What TfL needs right now is to open itself to a financial auditor like Deloitte, KPMG or PricewaterhouseCoopers to independently assess its financial situation, determine what can be cut, can be saved and what TfL should do to increase its revenues without a hand-out which does nothing but kick the bucket down the line further. Then and only then if TfL is out of options should it approach the government to say we have done everything we can, but we cannot do anymore and we need funding. Even then that funding should only cover core services like Buses, Tube, DLR, Tram etc with everything non essential passed to different agencies or local councils with minimal involvement but TfL.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 16, 2022 14:13:23 GMT
The first part may be true and I'm inclined to agree on that, but specifically the past couple months compared to the past 2 years have shown bailouts to be somewhat constant. Other sectors like aviation for example haven't seen the same kind of treatment. It's fair to comment that on all counts, not supporting a body like TfL would be a foolish move on the government's part. Crippling TfL is in effect stifling growth for the country. We all know about subpar management in the past few years, things have turned around of course. Still, no need to punish TfL, and in turn customers, in the present because of the past. The DfT's ultimate goal is to oust Khan and run TfL (and transport in general across the UK) into the ground to echo what the rest of the government is currently doing in many parts of it's policies in other sectors. But first, they need to make it all look like it's solely Khan's fault (he takes a chunk of the blame, not 100% despite my dislike for him) and exonerate themselves from any blame Boris style by lying. As you can tell, some others on here have completely fallen for the bait Kahn is making it easy for them to do. Not getting involved in the latest tube strikes, going as far as to say the unions share common goals with him to get more funding. Goading rebel tories into pushing the government for more funding, spending £34k on an unnecessary trip to LA. Wading into issues at a national level far beyond his pay grade and generally making himself look like an incompetent baboon.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 16, 2022 14:38:07 GMT
The DfT's ultimate goal is to oust Khan and run TfL (and transport in general across the UK) into the ground to echo what the rest of the government is currently doing in many parts of it's policies in other sectors. But first, they need to make it all look like it's solely Khan's fault (he takes a chunk of the blame, not 100% despite my dislike for him) and exonerate themselves from any blame Boris style by lying. As you can tell, some others on here have completely fallen for the bait Kahn is making it easy for them to do. Not getting involved in the latest tube strikes, going as far as to say the unions share common goals with him to get more funding. Goading rebel tories into pushing the government for more funding, spending £34k on an unnecessary trip to LA. Wading into issues at a national level far beyond his pay grade and generally making himself look like an incompetent baboon. No different to the fools at Downing Street then
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 16, 2022 14:47:09 GMT
Kahn is making it easy for them to do. Not getting involved in the latest tube strikes, going as far as to say the unions share common goals with him to get more funding. Goading rebel tories into pushing the government for more funding, spending £34k on an unnecessary trip to LA. Wading into issues at a national level far beyond his pay grade and generally making himself look like an incompetent baboon. No different to the fools at Downing Street then Except the fools in Downing Street know where their reach stops. You wouldn’t see them involved in local decisions to butting in comments on decisions taken at council level so why does Kahn think he should be weighing in on UK Foreign Policy, for example?
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 16, 2022 16:10:05 GMT
The DfT's ultimate goal is to oust Khan and run TfL (and transport in general across the UK) into the ground to echo what the rest of the government is currently doing in many parts of it's policies in other sectors. But first, they need to make it all look like it's solely Khan's fault (he takes a chunk of the blame, not 100% despite my dislike for him) and exonerate themselves from any blame Boris style by lying. As you can tell, some others on here have completely fallen for the bait Kahn is making it easy for them to do. Not getting involved in the latest tube strikes, going as far as to say the unions share common goals with him to get more funding. Goading rebel tories into pushing the government for more funding, spending £34k on an unnecessary trip to LA. Wading into issues at a national level far beyond his pay grade and generally making himself look like an incompetent baboon. Don't make fun of baboons please Khan never made it easy for himself when terrorist incidents were happening and he was nowhere to be seen until a tweet sent an hour after the incident deploring the incident He has been the same when it comes to the stabbings amongst schoolkids, and when he came out on the side of Extinction Rebellion protesters who were dancing on Waterloo Bridge and being a nuisance, he stuck his fingers up at Londoners who need to travel. When commuters pulled XR protesters off the roofs of trains at Canning Town and threatened them, he didn't like it Regardless of political views of his predecessors, Boris and Ken, they were more vocal and got involved and appeared on the news more, and were active users of TfL and the network. Khan has enjoyed a police detail and ridden around in flash cars no doubt they can blue light it at his will as they are operated by the Met Police. Although the article is old, I'm sure nothing has changed. This is why people have no time for politicians who play these games at our expense. Talking of expenses, the jaunts to LA then to Pakistan to watch cricket is a little much. The rises in costs of congestion charge, and its ongoing expansion along with ULEZ, the 3 year late partial opening of Elizabeth line, yet London is on it's knees and needs yet more money. Then there's the wholesale culling of bus routes, yet the Bus Enthusiast, Boris, will do nothing, and The Bus Driver's Son is nowhere to be seen unless serious stuff goes down. I think DfT will take over the running of TfL, and trim the fat (Emirates Dangleway, River Bus services and all other unnecessary stuff will go) and run a core of services like Tube, Overground, Crossrail, Bus. It can't get much worse... they will still get some sort of bailout, they're as regular as buses on the 243
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 16, 2022 16:25:45 GMT
Kahn is making it easy for them to do. Not getting involved in the latest tube strikes, going as far as to say the unions share common goals with him to get more funding. Goading rebel tories into pushing the government for more funding, spending £34k on an unnecessary trip to LA. Wading into issues at a national level far beyond his pay grade and generally making himself look like an incompetent baboon. Don't make fun of baboons please Khan never made it easy for himself when terrorist incidents were happening and he was nowhere to be seen until a tweet sent an hour after the incident deploring the incident He has been the same when it comes to the stabbings amongst schoolkids, and when he came out on the side of Extinction Rebellion protesters who were dancing on Waterloo Bridge and being a nuisance, he stuck his fingers up at Londoners who need to travel. When commuters pulled XR protesters off the roofs of trains at Canning Town and threatened them, he didn't like it Regardless of political views of his predecessors, Boris and Ken, they were more vocal and got involved and appeared on the news more, and were active users of TfL and the network. Khan has enjoyed a police detail and ridden around in flash cars no doubt they can blue light it at his will as they are operated by the Met Police. Although the article is old, I'm sure nothing has changed. This is why people have no time for politicians who play these games at our expense. Talking of expenses, the jaunts to LA then to Pakistan to watch cricket is a little much. The rises in costs of congestion charge, and its ongoing expansion along with ULEZ, the 3 year late partial opening of Elizabeth line, yet London is on it's knees and needs yet more money. Then there's the wholesale culling of bus routes, yet the Bus Enthusiast, Boris, will do nothing, and The Bus Driver's Son is nowhere to be seen unless serious stuff goes down. I think DfT will take over the running of TfL, and trim the fat (Emirates Dangleway, River Bus services and all other unnecessary stuff will go) and run a core of services like Tube, Overground, Crossrail, Bus. It can't get much worse... they will still get some sort of bailout, they're as regular as buses on the 243 Kahn isn’t even opposing the latest strikes as it plays into his hands. Why is TfL involved in river services which likely don’t generate much return, when this could easily come under the Port of London Authority and the Met to regulate. Roads could easily be managed at a council level and there is plenty more TfL could hive off. It needs to focus on services that actually generate revenue like the tube, overground and crossrail to fund things that get people to them like buses and the tram. Like I said in a previous post TfL needs to open its books to independent auditors who can make the tough decisions for them rather than doing it in house. I don’t doubt that TfL will get another bailout but what will the conditions be.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 16, 2022 17:46:19 GMT
It will be another Lastminute.com rescue, though DfT should take over and run TfL if Khan clearly can't. You can see ridership tailing off on the buses already, and industrial action won't endear anyone considering public transport in London in the near future. They were considering the per-mile charging which would be a disaster. It would need some sort of dongle fitted to the car (and no doubt some sort of subscription fee) a series of beacons or GPS and will need to be foolproof and not vulnerable to hackers who could manipulate figures and mileage. I am just thinking of every last rouble and kopek they are they are going to squeeze from Joe Public if Khan gets his way (more will work from home in protest or just not pay up)... It's going to be a mess. Perhaps we need a Year of The Bust festival in Regent Street to show people what buses looked like (before TfL collapsed )
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