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Post by stuckonthe486 on May 11, 2020 12:18:30 GMT
The good to know. I guess LRT weren't as tight as TFL have to be now and could introduce the changes in advance of the line opening. The Jubilee Line extension opened in three phases. Buses (188, 422, 472) were extended to North Greenwich in connection with phase 1, which was Stratford - North Greenwich. Extension to Waterloo followed in September 1999, then came the link to the existing Jubilee Line in November 1999. For some reason the 108 had already been diverted via North Greenwich when it was still a building site, in November 1998.
Just had a look at www.londonbuses.co.uk/ and it confirms what I thought I remembered - that introduction of North Greenwich buses was staggered. 108 came first - I'm pretty sure I used it the first morning it went through the barriers and into the building suite. (Think you used to have to have a New Millennium Experience Company ID to use the stop.) Until that day using the 108 from Blackheath/Greenwich to Bromley-by-Bow was a reasonably popular commuting route; the bus missed the worst of the Blackwall Tunnel jams and then it was a quick run up to Bromley-by-Bow. It was a useful alternative to the horror of what was then Connex and used to get me from Westcombe Park to Farringdon in the same time as a train would take. The diversion, even through an empty building site, added an extra 10 minutes onto the journey, got the bus stuck in jams trying to rejoin Tunnel Avenue, and it's never been the same since. And now, of course, the bulk of the route between Westcombe Hill and Bow Road is now completely different, tunnel aside. The 472 came before the Jubilee Line opened - www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/472.html - has it as being in January 1999. I thought it was a little later myself - at the same time the 188 was extended, on 1 May. Jubilee Line opened between North Greenwich and Stratford on 14 May 1999; the 422 came a couple of weeks later and the 161 followed in August. Then the X53 was scrapped in the autumn - a couple of weeks after I'd moved somewhere where the X53 would have bene useful, of course. After that, of course, outside the scheme, came the M1 (from Charlton) and M2 (from Greenwich station) on New Year's Day 2000 to serve the Dome. The M1 proved more successful as a commuter bus to North Greenwich tube and was succeeded by the 486. One other quirk was that for the tube, North Greenwich was put in zone 2 - presumably to encourage travel from central London - when the whole area had previously been in zone 3. Buses still had zones then, so the whole of Trafalgar Road and Blackwall Lane was switched to become one big zone 2/3 overlap (even when Maze Hill station remained in zone 3). That Zone 2 decision has probably become a millstone around TfL's neck since then, as it's encouraged a lot of travel from areas quite distant from North Greenwich to use the station to save money on fares. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 11, 2020 12:33:42 GMT
Would Greenwich town centre have been zone 2 or 3 before 1999. I guess the logic of Trafalgar Road being in both zones meant the 188 could be all zone 2 and the 422 all zone 3 and 4. Was a good thing really when bus zones went.
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Post by stuckonthe486 on May 11, 2020 12:38:34 GMT
Would Greenwich town centre have been zone 2 or 3 before 1999. I guess the logic of Trafalgar Road being in both zones meant the 188 could be all zone 2 and the 422 all zone 3 and 4. Was a good thing really when bus zones went. It was in both zones, as was Lewisham town centre; think Greenwich South Street/Lewisham Road was an overlap between the two zones too. Both Greenwich and Lewisham stations remain in both zones 2 and 3 (as does Cutty Sark-Lewisham on the DLR) to this day. |
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Post by rift on May 11, 2020 12:44:39 GMT
The Jubilee Line extension opened in three phases. Buses (188, 422, 472) were extended to North Greenwich in connection with phase 1, which was Stratford - North Greenwich. Extension to Waterloo followed in September 1999, then came the link to the existing Jubilee Line in November 1999. For some reason the 108 had already been diverted via North Greenwich when it was still a building site, in November 1998.
Just had a look at www.londonbuses.co.uk/ and it confirms what I thought I remembered - that introduction of North Greenwich buses was staggered. 108 came first - I'm pretty sure I used it the first morning it went through the barriers and into the building suite. (Think you used to have to have a New Millennium Experience Company ID to use the stop.) Until that day using the 108 from Blackheath/Greenwich to Bromley-by-Bow was a reasonably popular commuting route; the bus missed the worst of the Blackwall Tunnel jams and then it was a quick run up to Bromley-by-Bow. It was a useful alternative to the horror of what was then Connex and used to get me from Westcombe Park to Farringdon in the same time as a train would take. The diversion, even through an empty building site, added an extra 10 minutes onto the journey, got the bus stuck in jams trying to rejoin Tunnel Avenue, and it's never been the same since. And now, of course, the bulk of the route between Westcombe Hill and Bow Road is now completely different, tunnel aside. The 472 came before the Jubilee Line opened - www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/472.html - has it as being in January 1999. I thought it was a little later myself - at the same time the 188 was extended, on 1 May. Jubilee Line opened between North Greenwich and Stratford on 14 May 1999; the 422 came a couple of weeks later and the 161 followed in August. Then the X53 was scrapped in the autumn - a couple of weeks after I'd moved somewhere where the X53 would have bene useful, of course. After that, of course, outside the scheme, came the M1 (from Charlton) and M2 (from Greenwich station) on New Year's Day 2000 to serve the Dome. The M1 proved more successful as a commuter bus to North Greenwich tube and was succeeded by the 486. One other quirk was that for the tube, North Greenwich was put in zone 2 - presumably to encourage travel from central London - when the whole area had previously been in zone 3. Buses still had zones then, so the whole of Trafalgar Road and Blackwall Lane was switched to become one big zone 2/3 overlap (even when Maze Hill station remained in zone 3). That Zone 2 decision has probably become a millstone around TfL's neck since then, as it's encouraged a lot of travel from areas quite distant from North Greenwich to use the station to save money on fares. Would today’s 129 effectively be a renumbered M2? |
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Post by redexpress on May 11, 2020 12:48:50 GMT
That's an error on londonbuses.co.uk. Looking through allocation books produced by LTB at the time, 472 was introduced between Woolwich and Thamesmead in Jan 1999, then extended to North Greenwich on 1 May - so your memory is right!
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Post by southlondonbus on May 11, 2020 13:38:37 GMT
No the M2 was exactly the same as the 188 via Blackwall Lane. The 129 was the first time the routeing via Sainsbury to Greenwich was covered.
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Post by M1104 on May 28, 2020 12:40:23 GMT
Taken in March 1990 are the short-lived 83 stock, the smaller version of the D stock that were on the District Line. I didn't want to create a new thread so decided to stick it here. Photo credit to Ken Hampson  |
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