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Post by george on May 4, 2020 17:26:14 GMT
Clapham junction where the 35,39, 295 and C3 terminus recently due to Covid timetable I think that during this time the 295 and C3 should terminate at East Hill. If any route should termimate at East Hill it should be the 35 at least that way all routes can still serve Clapham Junction station. |
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Post by busaholic on May 4, 2020 17:27:40 GMT
North Greenwich, it's an awfully inefficient design in the first place. Imo all buses should enter as the 188 does and the island & main entrance removed meaning you can nearly double the stand capacity of the bus station and eliminate the need for them to loop back around after dropping people off. Also Bexleyheath however this could be solved if TFL actually considered what they were doing before awarding the 422 to SLN without much of an idea of where to stand it, on the first day all the timetables had it as running to the garage still. If TFL payed up and simply extend the 468 & 132 to the garage the problem of over capacity would vanish in a snap, the whole dropping off and looping around doesn't help to the capacity either of the bus stops. With up to 8x 422, 4x 401, 5x 301s all looping to drop off at the clocktower the demand for space is immense. Nothing should be cut however a more logical approach to standing buses in Bheath is required. If the B11 or B16 were to be lost by BX I would have no idea where they would stand at all now, likewise the 301 uses the emergency stop previously used for when the clocktower was shut, TFL have eliminated all contingency in Bexleyheath. The proposed frequency boost of the 132... I have no idea how either end will cope, really should just short runs Eltham-NG and utilise Eltham Bus Station which is possibly one of the most Under utilised terminals of all. North Greenwich could do with opening up the stands used when the main bus station is closed, as well as creating a new link to the station. Also, don't you think Bexleyheath is a fair bit long for the 468 to go from Croydon? 😉 Eltham Bus Station feels like a white elephant, so far from the high street, and used by 3 low-profile routes. The 468 could always be extended from the Elephant end  Eltham Station was, of course, the replacement for the Eltham, Well Hall Station bus station when the 'new' station was opened, which in reality was a move of a mere couple of hundred yards. I grew up a short distance from it and must have spent weeks of my life in total there before age 13! Combined with the Southend Crescent stand and the fact that 161 buses from the Woolwich direction could terminate at Eltham Church and travel via Eltham Hill and Sherard Road oos meant its position a ligttle way from the High Street wasn't a problem. In those days too the Bexleyheath line was far more important than the Sidcup line so many passengers went to Well Hall by bus from Avery Hill, Blackfen and places quite near to New Eltham and Mottingham stations, though I'm the first to admit that outside peak hours and Saturdays the number of passengers per bus were few. There were times when the bus station could get fairly crowded, mostly with 132s, with crew reliefs taking place in the canteen there, but I don't recall buses ever queuing to get into it.The pattern of bus services in Eltham has changed gradually over the years, as everywhere, but is still recognisable from those days. Incredible to think that the 61 and 228 routes combined with the 161/A s passing by used to offer close to 30bph to Chislehurst in the peaks.  |
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Post by 10121ddo on May 4, 2020 19:40:05 GMT
I have seen almost every bus station being named here as full or overloaded hah! Based on observations, I would disagree about Walthamstow being overcrowded. I've never really seen a struggle for space in the last 10 years of bus journeying around. Any curtailing 212s/275s almost always finding a spot too. But of course, I guess it depends on observations. Also, seeing how often the 20s run late with HCT during rush hours, I think any stand space given to them is honestly not needed! Stratford's always seemed okay on weekends to me, perhaps cramped but I guess that's just the layout. Note also, I have rarely used it on a workday in the last three - four years, so dare not comment on the Mon-Fri ! I'm sure drivers who use it will have a more valuable contribution. |
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Post by ronnie on May 4, 2020 22:25:31 GMT
I have seen almost every bus station being named here as full or overloaded hah! Based on observations, I would disagree about Walthamstow being overcrowded. I've never really seen a struggle for space in the last 10 years of bus journeying around. Any curtailing 212s/275s almost always finding a spot too. But of course, I guess it depends on observations. Also, seeing how often the 20s run late with HCT during rush hours, I think any stand space given to them is honestly not needed! Stratford's always seemed okay on weekends to me, perhaps cramped but I guess that's just the layout. Note also, I have rarely used it on a workday in the last three - four years, so dare not comment on the Mon-Fri ! I'm sure drivers who use it will have a more valuable contribution. Based on my observations (non-regular visitor but have used it a fair number of times in weekdays / weekends): - the earlier version was cramped but the new one is even more cramped as some space has been lost on the western side (interior most) where the new taxi rank is - 25/425/276 now serve it both ways which has increased the volume of buses - the place where the westbound 25/425/276/D8/N8 pick up was earlier the drop off point only. The drop off only point has now moved a few meters back. What this has resulted in is that if too many of the aforementioned routes turn up at the same time (frequent occurrence) then there’s a long queue of buses waiting to serve the stop, which in turn creates issues for the buses dropping off passengers at the drop off only stop. This is turn implies limited space for buses to get into the station and hence in leaving as well (the turn to leave the bus station is quite tight and one needs to use the other lane). Especially if 2-3 25s turn up and there’s a big crows waiting.... - think now there are 3-4 parallel rows for buses to stand in (leaving just about enough space for a bus to overtake any westbound 25s picking up passengers ). The issue is that the buses on the inside start completely blind. Given buses have to take a sharp u-turn immediately after, can lead to a potential collision. I have myself seen a couple of near-misses because it has started from the complete inside, and there has been a bus overtaking a westbound 25.... chaos. And this was just one side (buses going north!) - now the side where the buses go south. The first bus stop is for the 25/86/425 pick up eastbound (disaster recipe number 1). Immediately next to it is the stop for 104/238/262/473/276 (disaster recipe number 2). There is just about 1 lane for buses to pass in between and then you have D8/158 parked to the far side. Given how busy both these stops are and the sheer volume of passengers, it can very quickly turn very chaotic with buses being stuck just trying to get to the right stop (plus the westbound 25/276/425/D8 trying to leave)!! I remember having to wait for ~5 min for my 262 to come to the stop when I did it end to end (and this was 8pm in august!!) - and the last one is just outside where the northbound 69/158/241/257/308 try and pick up (I know it’s separate stops but they are all adjacent). Again sheer volumes of people just result in chaos, made worse by tfl’s assumption that people get lost if they go in circles. My 257 had to slam brakes immediately after leaving the bus stop because someone ran across the road Apologies if this is a long rant but just wanted to share my 2p |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 4, 2020 22:44:25 GMT
I have seen almost every bus station being named here as full or overloaded hah! Based on observations, I would disagree about Walthamstow being overcrowded. I've never really seen a struggle for space in the last 10 years of bus journeying around. Any curtailing 212s/275s almost always finding a spot too. But of course, I guess it depends on observations. Also, seeing how often the 20s run late with HCT during rush hours, I think any stand space given to them is honestly not needed! Stratford's always seemed okay on weekends to me, perhaps cramped but I guess that's just the layout. Note also, I have rarely used it on a workday in the last three - four years, so dare not comment on the Mon-Fri ! I'm sure drivers who use it will have a more valuable contribution. Based on my observations (non-regular visitor but have used it a fair number of times in weekdays / weekends): - the earlier version was cramped but the new one is even more cramped as some space has been lost on the western side (interior most) where the new taxi rank is - 25/425/276 now serve it both ways which has increased the volume of buses - the place where the westbound 25/425/276/D8/N8 pick up was earlier the drop off point only. The drop off only point has now moved a few meters back. What this has resulted in is that if too many of the aforementioned routes turn up at the same time (frequent occurrence) then there’s a long queue of buses waiting to serve the stop, which in turn creates issues for the buses dropping off passengers at the drop off only stop. This is turn implies limited space for buses to get into the station and hence in leaving as well (the turn to leave the bus station is quite tight and one needs to use the other lane). Especially if 2-3 25s turn up and there’s a big crows waiting.... - think now there are 3-4 parallel rows for buses to stand in (leaving just about enough space for a bus to overtake any westbound 25s picking up passengers ). The issue is that the buses on the inside start completely blind. Given buses have to take a sharp u-turn immediately after, can lead to a potential collision. I have myself seen a couple of near-misses because it has started from the complete inside, and there has been a bus overtaking a westbound 25.... chaos. And this was just one side (buses going north!) - now the side where the buses go south. The first bus stop is for the 25/86/425 pick up eastbound (disaster recipe number 1). Immediately next to it is the stop for 104/238/262/473/276 (disaster recipe number 2). There is just about 1 lane for buses to pass in between and then you have D8/158 parked to the far side. Given how busy both these stops are and the sheer volume of passengers, it can very quickly turn very chaotic with buses being stuck just trying to get to the right stop (plus the westbound 25/276/425/D8 trying to leave)!! I remember having to wait for ~5 min for my 262 to come to the stop when I did it end to end (and this was 8pm in august!!) - and the last one is just outside where the northbound 69/158/241/257/308 try and pick up (I know it’s separate stops but they are all adjacent). Again sheer volumes of people just result in chaos, made worse by tfl’s assumption that people get lost if they go in circles. My 257 had to slam brakes immediately after leaving the bus stop because someone ran across the road Apologies if this is a long rant but just wanted to share my 2p I completely agree with all of this. Most bus stations have one "disaster" stop, for example the 444, 231, 217 etc at Turnpike Lane, The 5, 115, 330, 300 etc at Canning Town, but at Stratford (excl alighting point) 4 out of the 6 stops heat up extremely dangerous crowds. The 25s one towards the City, the 25/86 etc towards Ilford, the 238/262 etc towards Plaistow and the 69/257 etc towards Walthamstow. The 241 pointlessly having its own stop across the road makes matters 10 times worse, if a 241 turns up at that stop before the 262 or 473, then cue whatever poor bus/car travelling on the road towards Angel Lane needing to slam its brakes on due to the people running across the road. You'd assume that the bus would stop with the 262 and 473 inside the bus station, however I assume the decision to give the route its own stop was taken due to the extreme congestion that already is present within the bus station. The stop towards Plaistow being right in front of the stop towards Ilford is just a total disaster, both stops have buses almost constantly pulling up at them and buses always spend a considerable amount of time at them.The 158/D8 stand being there makes matters far worse, not to mention the buses which need to loop around to enter the stands. Oh and you better hope the stands all have space otherwise this is going to happen (photo by LBOTG) and completely block everything just causing a circular traffic jam where nothing can move. The obvious solution here would be to relocate the alighting point to Great Eastern Road, but then the issue of having hundreds of people negotiate the crossing at the bus station entrance will just spell total disaster. |
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Post by busoccultation on May 4, 2020 23:02:24 GMT
I have seen almost every bus station being named here as full or overloaded hah! Based on observations, I would disagree about Walthamstow being overcrowded. I've never really seen a struggle for space in the last 10 years of bus journeying around. Any curtailing 212s/275s almost always finding a spot too. But of course, I guess it depends on observations. Also, seeing how often the 20s run late with HCT during rush hours, I think any stand space given to them is honestly not needed! Stratford's always seemed okay on weekends to me, perhaps cramped but I guess that's just the layout. Note also, I have rarely used it on a workday in the last three - four years, so dare not comment on the Mon-Fri ! I'm sure drivers who use it will have a more valuable contribution. You're right about Walthamstow Central as there is bay or two right next to the entrance that is facing east which can be used if necessary and a bay opposite stop A can also be used as it isn't normally used by scheduled terminating route. In fact I did see a curtailed 275 parked at the bay opposite stop A a few months ago.
As for Stratford, majority of the time when I see the stand being full is whenever most of the buses on the stand are on meal relief which often leads to where a driver isn't there to move the bus forward, otherwise if the drivers do move their bus forward every time if there is space free ahead as they should then its fine, if the drivers stay where they are and not moving their bus when there is space free that is where the problems are.
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Post by joefrombow on May 5, 2020 0:25:36 GMT
Hainault Street really is silly at times , I regularly pass there in the late evenings and see buses parked blocking up the actual road because the terminus is full up , Friday nights infact i saw two buses near enough on the big roundabout on Ley Street some sort of changes or maybe using Roden Street again needs to happen .
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Post by DT 11 on May 5, 2020 9:24:40 GMT
Well Arriva signed up to things and we're happy to manage things as they are although far from ideal. Putting the 301 and 401 on Geddes still needs the 132 to back back to BX. Like most places in London there is not enough stands. You can rest assured all of this has been looked at. quote author=" DT 11" source="/post/569018/thread" timestamp="1588609518"] Not to mention apparently the 422s stand has been racking up its fair share of resident complaints too. I believe some 422s stand at Friswell Place after the evening peak is done. I do wonder why there wasn't an agreement with Go Ahead if the 486/132 swap was going to lose money. Stagecoach have the 171 standing in TL's forecourt and the forecourt at BX has a very similar layout so I wonder why it wasn't done. I don't get why either of the 132 or 486 aren't just sent to the garage, but then the obvious issue there is that should another operator then win the routes you'll be back to square one. Really what should have been done is the 422 have a stand made by BX so that the issue never arose in the first place. I'm not sure how much time 301s lose when there's a huge amount of traffic too. Before the 301 even began and I heard the standing arrangements. I had to say no thinking was done whatsoever sorry to say, the first few weeks of the 301 buses were being double parked blocking the road. Place High Frequency route on a 1 Bus Stand.., Early Running is going to happen, the 301 has too much running time between Long Lane & Bexleyheath, it is so timed that when one arrives at Bexleyheath the other is meant to have left at the same time. I suggested the 301 should take the 401s terminus because it would most certainly work out better for the 301 as two buses can pull up there. The 401 can easily use the other stand. In addition to North Greenwich I look forward to see where the 180 will find stand space when extended to North Greenwich [/quote] Thanks for confirming that thought it had all been forgotten about. I do think Bexleyheath is definitely the most overcrowded bus terminus. The 99 stand is another one that double parking occurs as well occasionally. Bromley North can be busy at times. |
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Post by busaholic on May 5, 2020 11:49:20 GMT
Well Arriva signed up to things and we're happy to manage things as they are although far from ideal. Putting the 301 and 401 on Geddes still needs the 132 to back back to BX. Like most places in London there is not enough stands. You can rest assured all of this has been looked at. quote author=" DT 11 " source="/post/569018/thread" timestamp="1588609518"]Before the 301 even began and I heard the standing arrangements. I had to say no thinking was done whatsoever sorry to say, the first few weeks of the 301 buses were being double parked blocking the road. Place High Frequency route on a 1 Bus Stand.., Early Running is going to happen, the 301 has too much running time between Long Lane & Bexleyheath, it is so timed that when one arrives at Bexleyheath the other is meant to have left at the same time. I suggested the 301 should take the 401s terminus because it would most certainly work out better for the 301 as two buses can pull up there. The 401 can easily use the other stand. In addition to North Greenwich I look forward to see where the 180 will find stand space when extended to North Greenwich Thanks for confirming that thought it had all been forgotten about. I do think Bexleyheath is definitely the most overcrowded bus terminus. The 99 stand is another one that double parking occurs as well occasionally. Bromley North can be busy at times.[/quote] Do you know which routes have driver changeovers at Bromley North, and do any schedules incorporate buses laying over there for a period? |
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Post by Paul on May 5, 2020 14:28:41 GMT
Do you know which routes have driver changeovers at Bromley North, and do any schedules incorporate buses laying over there for a period? Off the top of my head I think the 61 and 269 are the only ones that don’t changeover at Bromley North although I’m not sure about the 367 - logic dictates that would change at the Croydon end I can only speak for the 354 but during the day they have about 20 minutes at the North. I would guess the other routes are broadly the same. I have to say I don’t tend to find parking at Bromley North too much of an issue although it is rare I find myself up there. Fingers crossed that will change come the end of the year! If there is considered to be an issue at Bromley North then something like a 138 or 354 could be extended down to Plaistow Green where there is a ready built stand. Equally, the 269 could be pushed down to Bromley South/Bromley High Street when the newly constructed Simpsons Road stand comes into use - if it ever does! |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 18:22:42 GMT
Do you know which routes have driver changeovers at Bromley North, and do any schedules incorporate buses laying over there for a period? Off the top of my head I think the 61 and 269 are the only ones that don’t changeover at Bromley North although I’m not sure about the 367 - logic dictates that would change at the Croydon end I can only speak for the 354 but during the day they have about 20 minutes at the North. I would guess the other routes are broadly the same. I have to say I don’t tend to find parking at Bromley North too much of an issue although it is rare I find myself up there. Fingers crossed that will change come the end of the year! If there is considered to be an issue at Bromley North then something like a 138 or 354 could be extended down to Plaistow Green where there is a ready built stand. Equally, the 269 could be pushed down to Bromley South/Bromley High Street when the newly constructed Simpsons Road stand comes into use - if it ever does! The 402 being cut from Bromley should have freed up a bit of space when that happened. The 269 being rerouted to Bromley South I'd love for purely selfish reasons. It's been such a hassle having to walk all the way to Bromley North Station or to Widmore Road/Kentish Way going home from the town centre since they rerouted it Bexleyheath bound in 2013. |
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Post by greenboy on May 5, 2020 19:53:16 GMT
Do you know which routes have driver changeovers at Bromley North, and do any schedules incorporate buses laying over there for a period? Off the top of my head I think the 61 and 269 are the only ones that don’t changeover at Bromley North although I’m not sure about the 367 - logic dictates that would change at the Croydon end I can only speak for the 354 but during the day they have about 20 minutes at the North. I would guess the other routes are broadly the same. I have to say I don’t tend to find parking at Bromley North too much of an issue although it is rare I find myself up there. Fingers crossed that will change come the end of the year! If there is considered to be an issue at Bromley North then something like a 138 or 354 could be extended down to Plaistow Green where there is a ready built stand. Equally, the 269 could be pushed down to Bromley South/Bromley High Street when the newly constructed Simpsons Road stand comes into use - if it ever does! That would be a much better arrangement for the 269, the current route is so remote from the town centre on the way out. |
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Post by danorak on May 5, 2020 20:44:43 GMT
North Greenwich could do with opening up the stands used when the main bus station is closed, as well as creating a new link to the station. Also, don't you think Bexleyheath is a fair bit long for the 468 to go from Croydon? 😉 Eltham Bus Station feels like a white elephant, so far from the high street, and used by 3 low-profile routes. The 468 could always be extended from the Elephant end Eltham Station was, of course, the replacement for the Eltham, Well Hall Station bus station when the 'new' station was opened, which in reality was a move of a mere couple of hundred yards. I grew up a short distance from it and must have spent weeks of my life in total there before age 13! Combined with the Southend Crescent stand and the fact that 161 buses from the Woolwich direction could terminate at Eltham Church and travel via Eltham Hill and Sherard Road oos meant its position a ligttle way from the High Street wasn't a problem. In those days too the Bexleyheath line was far more important than the Sidcup line so many passengers went to Well Hall by bus from Avery Hill, Blackfen and places quite near to New Eltham and Mottingham stations, though I'm the first to admit that outside peak hours and Saturdays the number of passengers per bus were few. There were times when the bus station could get fairly crowded, mostly with 132s, with crew reliefs taking place in the canteen there, but I don't recall buses ever queuing to get into it.The pattern of bus services in Eltham has changed gradually over the years, as everywhere, but is still recognisable from those days. Incredible to think that the 61 and 228 routes combined with the 161/A s passing by used to offer close to 30bph to Chislehurst in the peaks. I remember the old Well Hall bus station well. The new bus station across the road was a great disappointment when it opened. Gone were the individual stands and the big white cube with roundels on each side at the entrance. The new location was basically just a huge parking area with a single stop, no fun at all! The stand at Southend Crescent assumed greater importance so that routes served the High Street more effectively, meaning the new site has never been very busy at all. Being built over the A2 there's not a lot else you can do with it, and I did wonder whether someone might try and use it as an outstation. Anyway, those who wish to see Well Hall bus station in action and enjoy red hot RT action will like this short bit of footage on the BFI Player (don't think you'll need to register as this is one of their free films) player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-rt-buses-in-se-london-1978-online |
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2020 21:25:40 GMT
Off the top of my head I think the 61 and 269 are the only ones that don’t changeover at Bromley North although I’m not sure about the 367 - logic dictates that would change at the Croydon end I can only speak for the 354 but during the day they have about 20 minutes at the North. I would guess the other routes are broadly the same. I have to say I don’t tend to find parking at Bromley North too much of an issue although it is rare I find myself up there. Fingers crossed that will change come the end of the year! If there is considered to be an issue at Bromley North then something like a 138 or 354 could be extended down to Plaistow Green where there is a ready built stand. Equally, the 269 could be pushed down to Bromley South/Bromley High Street when the newly constructed Simpsons Road stand comes into use - if it ever does! The 402 being cut from Bromley should have freed up a bit of space when that happened. The 269 being rerouted to Bromley South I'd love for purely selfish reasons. It's been such a hassle having to walk all the way to Bromley North Station or to Widmore Road/Kentish Way going home from the town centresince they rerouted it it Bexleyheath bound in 2013. Shame buses can't turn right from the Bromley North stands as the 269 could run down Tweedy Road and serve Market Square before running straight along Widmore Road. |
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Post by busaholic on May 5, 2020 22:36:43 GMT
Off the top of my head I think the 61 and 269 are the only ones that don’t changeover at Bromley North although I’m not sure about the 367 - logic dictates that would change at the Croydon end I can only speak for the 354 but during the day they have about 20 minutes at the North. I would guess the other routes are broadly the same. I have to say I don’t tend to find parking at Bromley North too much of an issue although it is rare I find myself up there. Fingers crossed that will change come the end of the year! If there is considered to be an issue at Bromley North then something like a 138 or 354 could be extended down to Plaistow Green where there is a ready built stand. Equally, the 269 could be pushed down to Bromley South/Bromley High Street when the newly constructed Simpsons Road stand comes into use - if it ever does! The 402 being cut from Bromley should have freed up a bit of space when that happened. The 269 being rerouted to Bromley South I'd love for purely selfish reasons. It's been such a hassle having to walk all the way to Bromley North Station or to Widmore Road/Kentish Way going home from the town centresince they rerouted it it Bexleyheath bound in 2013. I think there's a good case for a 269 extension to Bromley South, which remains a very important station both London and Kent bound as well as the shopping opportunities, should they ever come back again! |
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