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Post by SILENCED on May 10, 2020 10:58:21 GMT
Shown here is a Google maps screenshot of Mitcham Road where the 264 runs along. It's taken from Croydon, with Merton visible after the small junction, which comes under Sutton. The car wash site to the left, a few years ago, had an planning application for a new McDonald's (https://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/news/11609711.sutton-council-considers-plans-for-a-24-hour-drive-through-mcdonalds-on-the-borders-of-croydon-sutton-and-merton/) The application was made to Sutton council as that section, where the 264 runs, comes under Sutton. Therefore my comment that the 264 runs in Sutton, is correct - as I knew it was! I’m only going by what TfL has under their borough list and they don’t consider the 264 as entering Sutton. If it only enters a junction and doesn’t have a stop in the borough then surely it doesn’t count. As far as TfL is concerned it must stop in the borough. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 10, 2020 12:01:28 GMT
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2020 12:02:10 GMT
I’m only going by what TfL has under their borough list and they don’t consider the 264 as entering Sutton. If it only enters a junction and doesn’t have a stop in the borough then surely it doesn’t count. TfL have previously said the 264 enters Sutton on bus service changes documents. Runs through Sutton borough, therefore serves it. It doesn't run through Sutton at all - Croydon Road runs through Merton & Croydon - the car wash & Redhouse Road may well be within Sutton but it doesn't effect the 264. Anyway, I've already stated that it's based purely on the roads of travel and the 264 does not travel down any road within the borough of Sutton. |
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Post by TB123 on May 10, 2020 12:07:35 GMT
TfL have previously said the 264 enters Sutton on bus service changes documents. Runs through Sutton borough, therefore serves it. It doesn't run through Sutton at all - Croydon Road runs through Merton & Croydon - the car wash & Redhouse Road may well be within Sutton but it doesn't effect the 264. Anyway, I've already stated that it's based purely on the roads of travel and the 264 does not travel down any road within the borough of Sutton. That bit isn't Croydon Road - that is still Mitcham Road, or otherwise known as Beddington Terrace. Croydon Road starts just after at the Merton borough sign, running just in Merton borough. If you look on the Sutton planning website, and type in 'Mitcham Road', many addresses in that vicinity with the CR0 postcode will show up with Sutton related planning applications in the Beddington North ward, showing that the section of road there is within Sutton borough. Not just Redhouse Road or the car wash. It's a brief section - but it still counts, and the 264 runs along Mitcham Road. I've lived a 5 minute walk from that location for a long while so I've a fair clue what the situation is there. planningregister.sutton.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage |
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2020 12:10:53 GMT
Again, as I've already clarified, it's based on the actual road and the whole of Deptford Church Street is within Lewisham - when Lewisham had its street lighting scheme a few years ago, the whole of Deptford Church Street had its lights replaced as part of the scheme and its columns refurbished. |
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Post by george on May 10, 2020 12:19:21 GMT
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about certain routes which I did expect could happen. It's difficult to know if I should change these or not.
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2020 12:23:57 GMT
It doesn't run through Sutton at all - Croydon Road runs through Merton & Croydon - the car wash & Redhouse Road may well be within Sutton but it doesn't effect the 264. Anyway, I've already stated that it's based purely on the roads of travel and the 264 does not travel down any road within the borough of Sutton. That bit isn't Croydon Road - that is still Mitcham Road, or otherwise known as Beddington Terrace. Croydon Road starts further down after Windmill Road, running just in Merton borough. If you look on the Sutton planning website, and type in 'Mitcham Road', many addresses in that vicinity with the CR0 postcode will show up with Sutton related planning applications, showing that the section of road there is within Sutton borough. Not just Redhouse Road or the car wash. It's a brief section - but it still counts, and the 264 runs along Mitcham Road. I've lived a 5 minute walk from that location for a long while so I've a fair clue what the situation is there. planningregister.sutton.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPageCroydon Road doesn't start at Windmill Road, it starts much further down around the Redhouse Road area and has done so for years. It doesn't count - it not based on addresses & based on the actual roads it travels on and it doesn't serve Sutton. You do realise that because an address might lie in one borough, doesn't mean the actual road does - a large section of the Southwark part of Denmark Hill for example has Lambeth addresses on one side including Kings College Hospital. Mitcham Road as in the actual road is wholly within Croydon whilst Croydon Road as in the actual road is within Croydon until Redhouse Road & then Merton from there to the roundabout at the Mitcham end. I've previously explained that the list is based on actual roads served as well. |
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Post by TB123 on May 10, 2020 12:30:05 GMT
That bit isn't Croydon Road - that is still Mitcham Road, or otherwise known as Beddington Terrace. Croydon Road starts further down after Windmill Road, running just in Merton borough. If you look on the Sutton planning website, and type in 'Mitcham Road', many addresses in that vicinity with the CR0 postcode will show up with Sutton related planning applications, showing that the section of road there is within Sutton borough. Not just Redhouse Road or the car wash. It's a brief section - but it still counts, and the 264 runs along Mitcham Road. I've lived a 5 minute walk from that location for a long while so I've a fair clue what the situation is there. planningregister.sutton.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPageCroydon Road doesn't start at Windmill Road, it starts much further down around the Redhouse Road area and has done so for years. It doesn't count - it not based on addresses & based on the actual roads it travels on and it doesn't serve Sutton. You do realise that because an address might lie in one borough, doesn't mean the actual road does - a large section of the Southwark part of Denmark Hill for example has Lambeth addresses on one side including Kings College Hospital. Mitcham Road as in the actual road is wholly within Croydon whilst Croydon Road as in the actual road is within Croydon until Redhouse Road & then Merton from there to the roundabout at the Mitcham end. I've previously explained that the list is based on actual roads served as well. I wasn't aware that was the methodology you were using - I see your point now. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 10, 2020 20:45:35 GMT
Again, as I've already clarified, it's based on the actual road and the whole of Deptford Church Street is within Lewisham - when Lewisham had its street lighting scheme a few years ago, the whole of Deptford Church Street had its lights replaced as part of the scheme and its columns refurbished. Street lights don't mean anything. Wood Vale and Sydenham Hill on the 363 are divided down the middle, but it's Southwark who administer the road for both boroughs including the lights and resurfacing works, so when Southwark introduced the 20mph speed limit scheme, it affected the Lewisham side as well. Refuse collections are done by the respective authority, which would explain why there's a Greenwich bin on Google Maps. |
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2020 21:52:06 GMT
Again, as I've already clarified, it's based on the actual road and the whole of Deptford Church Street is within Lewisham - when Lewisham had its street lighting scheme a few years ago, the whole of Deptford Church Street had its lights replaced as part of the scheme and its columns refurbished. Street lights don't mean anything. Wood Vale and Sydenham Hill on the 363 are divided down the middle, but it's Southwark who administer the road for both boroughs including the lights and resurfacing works, so when Southwark introduced the 20mph speed limit scheme, it affected the Lewisham side as well. Refuse collections are done by the respective authority, which would explain why there's a Greenwich bin on Google Maps. Like I've already said in reply to yourself and others, the document I provided is based on the road that routes travel down and on that basis Wood Vale is a Southwark road & Sydenham Hill is a Southwark road between Westwood Hill & Crsecent Wood Road with the Lewisham section running between Crescent Wood Road & London Road - this isn't taking into account addresses on the said roads that might be in another borough which again, I had already referenced before. I didn't say that section of Deptford Church Street wasn't in Greenwich at all but that it doesn't count in relation to the methodology I used & in my methodology, streets do matter very much and are a distinct marker. Otherwise, the 484 would enter Lambeth because King's College is part of Lambeth and runs & the 42 would of been in the same boat before it's extension because both run alongside Southwark controlled Denmark Hill and swaps over at Sunray Avenue all the way to Herne Hill. |
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Post by BK15AZR on May 10, 2020 23:14:42 GMT
D8 is missing from Tower Hamlets - the only Tower Transit route there after 25/N25 are transferred to Stagecoach.
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Post by rift on May 11, 2020 0:00:37 GMT
Stagecoach doesn’t operate the 139.
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Post by george on May 11, 2020 0:05:48 GMT
Stagecoach doesn’t operate the 139. That would have been a typing error I'll get that changed later. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on May 11, 2020 12:31:43 GMT
The 47 just clips inside Greenwich heading towards Bellingham (not the other way) at the Deptford High Street and Deptford Church Street stops. It's a very marginal case, granted :-) edit: spot the tatty old Greenwich sign on the bin at the bus stop: goo.gl/maps/25yQKo69SyF3HCqK6 Just to clarify, I go by road rather than pavement hence why the document I sent to george doesn't contain Greenwich for the 47 - Creek Road up to Deptford Church Street is wholly within Lewisham. I know there are similar anomalies that exist like Lambeth bins on Denmark Hill but again, the actual road on that section is wholly within Southwark. Hope that clears things up a little  is useful for things like this, as you can see whether boundaries run down middle of roads or to the sides. Though it's always going to be fuzzy. Some boroughs plonk their street furniture in others' territory by design to make life easier - Creekside in Deptford has Lewisham lighting all along despite the northern stretch being unambiguously in Greenwich. Presumably saved Greenwich a job a few years ago. And then there are cock-ups, like the Lewisham street sign marooned inside Greenwich territory at the Sun in the Sands roundabout (nobody's ever changed the boundary...) goo.gl/maps/dgtywnAPEGJKFRNR6 |
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Post by vjaska on May 11, 2020 18:38:05 GMT
Just to clarify, I go by road rather than pavement hence why the document I sent to george doesn't contain Greenwich for the 47 - Creek Road up to Deptford Church Street is wholly within Lewisham. I know there are similar anomalies that exist like Lambeth bins on Denmark Hill but again, the actual road on that section is wholly within Southwark. Hope that clears things up a little is useful for things like this, as you can see whether boundaries run down middle of roads or to the sides. Though it's always going to be fuzzy. Some boroughs plonk their street furniture in others' territory by design to make life easier - Creekside in Deptford has Lewisham lighting all along despite the northern stretch being unambiguously in Greenwich. Presumably saved Greenwich a job a few years ago. And then there are cock-ups, like the Lewisham street sign marooned inside Greenwich territory at the Sun in the Sands roundabout (nobody's ever changed the boundary...) goo.gl/maps/dgtywnAPEGJKFRNR6 Looking at Creekside on Google Maps, almost the whole road is under Lewisham except for the very northern end between Copperas Street & Creek Road but either way your correct in that it will always be fuzzy which is why I chose the methodology I did. |
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