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Post by SILENCED on Jun 3, 2020 20:18:29 GMT
I am sorry but LED is not the way, rolling blinds are best blinds, you take that away from London buses and it obviously damages it's image slightly and next thing you know in 5 years buses are in green. Not just aimed at you, but open to all, if using cheaper LED blinds saved money, which would you rather. 1) Roller blinds and cuts 2) LEDs and less severe cuts
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Post by greenboy on Jun 3, 2020 20:21:57 GMT
Yes the quality is fine on the P5 and has been for years now elsewhere...... quite ironic that most London buses that are sold for further use elsewhere are converted to electronic display. Yet those LED screens are much smaller and cheaper than what is on offer here. London unlike anywhere else prides itself on its roots and one of the biggest roots is the almost universal use of the Johnston font. A font which is difficult to fully replicate on a smaller resolution LED screen. Other thing is outside of London in commercial routes have a tendency to change far more quicker than in London As long as they do the job what's wrong with the cheaper ones?
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Post by greenboy on Jun 3, 2020 20:32:09 GMT
I am sorry but LED is not the way, rolling blinds are best blinds, you take that away from London buses and it obviously damages it's image slightly and next thing you know in 5 years buses are in green. Not just aimed at you, but open to all, if using cheaper LED blinds saved money, which would you rather. 1) Roller blinds and cuts 2) LEDs and less severe cuts That's the crux of the matter and hopefully the current financial situation is going to bring a dose of reality to TfL.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 3, 2020 21:08:17 GMT
I am sorry but LED is not the way, rolling blinds are best blinds, you take that away from London buses and it obviously damages it's image slightly and next thing you know in 5 years buses are in green. I understand the nostalgia aspect, I would be happy if the roller blinds had adequate information on them. At the moment, Route Number and Destination is a bit vague, especially for a newcomer unfamiliar with an area. I highlighted the several different Waterloo termini used by the 76, 243 and 341 for instance on a different thread. As for London's image, it wouldn't be "damaged" by LED blinds, such as on the Stagecoach bus displaying the Johnston font with no problem, all the blinds would have the same software and just require a new USB stick for an update. All of London's trams, trains and tube have LED blinds with no one gasping in horror. The buses are where you need the most information, especially if people are not sure of the destination or where to go. I guess in all fairness the majority will work from home anyway. As for green, unless they're demanding Green Line coaches have traditional livery, I doubt the buses will end up green. Mayor Katie Price may prefer pink if she wins our vote next year
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Post by vjaska on Jun 3, 2020 21:40:58 GMT
I think Leon Daniels' dislike of the early blinds such as on MBK1, probably set a precedent that his successor Gareth Powell just stuck to and never gave any thought. I guess with TfL in freefall as profits and passenger numbers plummet, anything like investing in blinds was never thought of. Nice little earner for McKenna, the only blind company in London still making these old skool blinds. It has gone the way of video recorders and pagers as you say. The quality is good enough, having seen Abellio Caetano's on the P5, I know they couldn't accommodate regular blinds like the H2 Solo's, so TfL reluctantly accept their use. I hope anything is done to improve the lot of bus travel in London, even the 20 passengers for a whole decker is setting operators up to fail. The "Bus Full" bits of card on the dash is too fussy, and any commuters will tire of letting buses go in the hope of an empty one arriving. Interesting times... Yes the quality is fine on the P5 and has been for years now elsewhere...... quite ironic that most London buses that are sold for further use elsewhere are converted to electronic display. The blinds on the P5 have not long been in use so let’s not jump the gun here - the lack of spacing between the number & destination could be an issue for some. So far they work but that could change. As for LED’s elsewhere being fine for years, that’s completely false - the current crop of LED technology in blinds is good but only been out for a few years, before that there were many examples of LED’s failing.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 3, 2020 21:43:33 GMT
Yes the quality is fine on the P5 and has been for years now elsewhere...... quite ironic that most London buses that are sold for further use elsewhere are converted to electronic display. The blinds on the P5 have not long been in use so let’s not jump the gun here - the lack of spacing between the number & destination could be an issue for some. So far they work but that could change. As for LED’s elsewhere being fine for years, that’s completely false - the current crop of LED technology in blinds is good but only been out for a few years, before that there were many examples of LED’s failing. Of course it's not completely false.... as for the P5 are you expecting them to suddenly go wrong? I don't see what guns are being jumped.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 3, 2020 21:51:49 GMT
Yes the quality is fine on the P5 and has been for years now elsewhere...... quite ironic that most London buses that are sold for further use elsewhere are converted to electronic display. The blinds on the P5 have not long been in use so let’s not jump the gun here - the lack of spacing between the number & destination could be an issue for some. So far they work but that could change. As for LED’s elsewhere being fine for years, that’s completely false - the current crop of LED technology in blinds is good but only been out for a few years, before that there were many examples of LED’s failing. VJ ... the Tramlink blinds of of the era you are questioning. When was the last time you saw a Tram with broken blinds. I can't remember the last time, probably a few years ago. Then compare that to bus blind issues reported here. I know which ones I consider more reliable ... and by a wide margin.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 3, 2020 21:56:01 GMT
The blinds on the P5 have not long been in use so let’s not jump the gun here - the lack of spacing between the number & destination could be an issue for some. So far they work but that could change. As for LED’s elsewhere being fine for years, that’s completely false - the current crop of LED technology in blinds is good but only been out for a few years, before that there were many examples of LED’s failing. VJ ... the Tramlink blinds of of the era you are questioning. When was the last time you saw a Tram with broken blinds. I can't remember the last time, probably a few years ago. Then compare that to bus blind issues reported here. I know which ones I consider more reliable ... and by a wide margin. I wasn’t referring to just London as my original post earlier today mentions nor was there a mention of London in the above post in regards to LED’s.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 3, 2020 22:25:32 GMT
I remember reading here I think that blinds are extremely expensive, I think several hundred per set? so surprised LEDs would be too expensive especially how quick some blinds need changing. I think the issue is that the London spec LEDs seem to be very expensive due to their uniqueness, outside of London nobody seems to have reason to buy them however in London TfL seem to want high resolution. This also seems to be produced in a slightly larger size, the same of that of blinds than the smaller standard of LEDs elsewhere which might also pose a cost issue. I think these LED blinds could work, I prefer blinds but should a cost saving be found in them I support it. I'm yet to see a WH one fail, although Stagecoach have high standards in general so I am sure a failed unit will result in the bus not being sent out.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 3, 2020 23:44:26 GMT
VJ ... the Tramlink blinds of of the era you are questioning. When was the last time you saw a Tram with broken blinds. I can't remember the last time, probably a few years ago. Then compare that to bus blind issues reported here. I know which ones I consider more reliable ... and by a wide margin. I wasn’t referring to just London as my original post earlier today mentions nor was there a mention of London in the above post in regards to LED’s. But they are the same types of display whether in London or outside? Ok they do fail, but then smart blinds seem to fail spectacularly as well, probably more often.
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Post by joefrombow on Jun 4, 2020 0:38:43 GMT
In these times what with what's going on I think LED blinds wether they display Johnston or not should be allowed they work literally everywhere else in the UK they will be fine for London sad to see the Nostalgia go but the pennies are low and all projected growth has gone out of the window for the foreseeable future .
I would even go as far to say that within the next couple years non current tfl spec buses i.e not 100% red and all new buses on five year contracts going out the window for a while too it's quite ridiculous that a 10 year old bus which has been modified to have lower emissions can't be used on a new contract when it had been refurbished and is perfectly fine when out of London you have near on 20 year old buses running fine perfectly and getting punters from A to B just fine all this waste has to go .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 1:20:04 GMT
I am sorry but LED is not the way, rolling blinds are best blinds, you take that away from London buses and it obviously damages it's image slightly and next thing you know in 5 years buses are in green. Not just aimed at you, but open to all, if using cheaper LED blinds saved money, which would you rather. 1) Roller blinds and cuts 2) LEDs and less severe cuts Replacement blinds would be at the operator's expense. I can imagine the first set (along with the unit) being costed into the tender but any future replacement would be bought by the operator. Therefore any saving in cost would be for operators, not TfL thus would have no impact on cuts etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 1:24:03 GMT
I remember reading here I think that blinds are extremely expensive, I think several hundred per set? so surprised LEDs would be too expensive especially how quick some blinds need changing. Also the manhours involved in actually changing them. Can take several hours per bus. Some of the blinds are really hard to access as well, for example on WHVs you have to take the rear seats out upstairs to access the rear number blind, or WSs the glass has to come out to change the front blinds as it's too tight to do it from inside the cab (and if you wanted to do it from inside the cab the assault screen has to come out as well. Also the Metro boxes obstruct access to a lot of side blinds so often have to be removed as well. And once you've done all this and fitted them, that could be 3 hours of an engineer's day gone that could have been spent fixing buses...
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Post by vjaska on Jun 4, 2020 2:18:29 GMT
I wasn’t referring to just London as my original post earlier today mentions nor was there a mention of London in the above post in regards to LED’s. But they are the same types of display whether in London or outside? Ok they do fail, but then smart blinds seem to fail spectacularly as well, probably more often. The ones that were first introduced and have been used for many years up until roughly 2015 are different to the ones operators are currently using - the orange LED's that were ubiquitous everywhere had issues with the display being legible during certain weathers and nighttime and had the same issues of reliability that power blinds initially had (very telling over the last 1-2 of years how banditry due to failed power blinds is extremely low now)
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 4, 2020 4:19:28 GMT
Not just aimed at you, but open to all, if using cheaper LED blinds saved money, which would you rather. 1) Roller blinds and cuts 2) LEDs and less severe cuts Replacement blinds would be at the operator's expense. I can imagine the first set (along with the unit) being costed into the tender but any future replacement would be bought by the operator. Therefore any saving in cost would be for operators, not TfL thus would have no impact on cuts etc. All operator cost, including blind displays will be priced into the contract cost, so ultimately TfL will pay. If you are bidding for a route needing 10 vehicles, you may budget for 10 smart blind dsiplays, plus say 25 blind sets over the course of a contract and associated staff cost, rather than just the 10 LED panels.
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