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Post by SILENCED on Jun 4, 2020 10:12:15 GMT
Hang on, you just said TfL don't pay for spare buses? They either get paid for or they don't. I think you've picked the wrong person to argue with given the OP is an experienced bus professional who knows their stuff. Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly!
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 4, 2020 10:13:55 GMT
Hang on, you just said TfL don't pay for spare buses? They either get paid for or they don't. They pay for the allocated spares. Each route will have a contingent of spare buses allocated to it (so if the 405 has a pvr of 11 it will have 12 buses in total (1 spare bus allocated to it)). All costs associated with the spare buses allocated to the route would be costed. Any buses allocated to other routes at the garage would not be. Ok, just can't see why any commercial company would want to enter into a contract on those terms ... certainly unlike most other supplier/contractor relationships I have ever worked with, and those with the public sector are normally ripe pickings.
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Post by TB123 on Jun 4, 2020 10:15:34 GMT
I think you've picked the wrong person to argue with given the OP is an experienced bus professional who knows their stuff. Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly! More broadly than "gobby Internet troll", that's for sure
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 10:19:47 GMT
That would be the operator's fault as TfL would say we also paid for the spare buses to be fitted with blinds so you should have the buses available. Although not always logical, their reasoning is always looking at reducing cost and fining operators. Hang on, you just said TfL don't pay for spare buses? They either get paid for or they don't. I hardly think TfL are going to pay for say 50 + buses at a garage to be fitted with blinds but of course would pay for the allocated buses and any spares required.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 4, 2020 10:21:32 GMT
Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly! More broadly than "gobby Internet troll", that's for sure Yeah, certainly some of those on here!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 10:28:56 GMT
I think you've picked the wrong person to argue with given the OP is an experienced bus professional who knows their stuff. Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly! Wonder what your credentials are? I'm a bus driver of 9 years, at one point trained as a cover mileage clerk (although not a job I wanted to take further). The Mrs works at the head office of another London operator doing data analysis looking mainly at performance issues, working in direct contact with people who cost these changes, compile schedules, cost tenders and order blinds. Wonder what experience you have?
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Post by Danny on Jun 4, 2020 11:49:47 GMT
I think you've picked the wrong person to argue with given the OP is an experienced bus professional who knows their stuff. Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly! If someone described themselves like that I'd assume that they're quite high up in the industry. I've never heard a sales assistant at Tesco be described as a retail sector professional
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Post by Danny on Jun 4, 2020 11:51:41 GMT
A lifetime of new blind-sets Sorry if im. eing stupid but What does this mean? The cost of new blinds over the life of the bus.
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Post by george on Jun 4, 2020 11:52:53 GMT
Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly! If someone described themselves like that I'd assume that they're quite high up in the industry. I've never heard a sales assistant at Tesco be described as a retail sector professional Exactly this. I work in the transport industry as a CSA I do my job to the best of my ability but I would never call myself a professional.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 4, 2020 11:57:01 GMT
Seem the expression public transport professional can be used quite broadly! Wonder what your credentials are? I'm a bus driver of 9 years, at one point trained as a cover mileage clerk (although not a job I wanted to take further). The Mrs works at the head office of another London operator doing data analysis looking mainly at performance issues, working in direct contact with people who cost these changes, compile schedules, cost tenders and order blinds. Wonder what experience you have? Not quite as much experience, as in not a driver, but worked for TfL for 5 years, now a contractor for them looking after the IT, printers, desktops etc in depots, stations and other TfL sites and offices. Worked in TfL IMAC team at 55 Broadway and used to look after the sites at 172 Buckingham Palace Road and Eccleston Square, along with Windsor House, Palestra, Seven Sisters (Pleaides House) and Northumberland Park's printers in the depot, so was always travelling by bus in one form or another. So not a "gobby internet troll", having been here for over 12 years on the forum. So I know the lumbering dinosaur which is local government and public sector bodies, so understand the change may be more glacial. Still connected to transport as my company has several high end IT contracts with TfL and their bus operators. Some have popped up recently and claim to know it all, quite amusing, lol... I have seen the A4 sheets on the E10 Cadets, blank 184 blinds, torn ones, the amount of information disappear down to an ultimate destination... the array of Dayglo and White on the 237 buses back in the day, so don't just say this on a whim. As information is found wanting on this forum of late, it can be hard getting a non sarky reply from a few smart arses who have taken this place downhill in the last 5 years...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 12:34:25 GMT
Wonder what your credentials are? I'm a bus driver of 9 years, at one point trained as a cover mileage clerk (although not a job I wanted to take further). The Mrs works at the head office of another London operator doing data analysis looking mainly at performance issues, working in direct contact with people who cost these changes, compile schedules, cost tenders and order blinds. Wonder what experience you have? Not quite as much experience, as in not a driver, but worked for TfL for 5 years, now a contractor for them looking after the IT, printers, desktops etc in depots, stations and other TfL sites and offices. Worked in TfL IMAC team at 55 Broadway and used to look after the sites at 172 Buckingham Palace Road and Eccleston Square, along with Windsor House, Palestra, Seven Sisters (Pleaides House) and Northumberland Park's printers in the depot, so was always travelling by bus in one form or another. So not a "gobby internet troll", having been here for over 12 years on the forum. So I know the lumbering dinosaur which is local government and public sector bodies, so understand the change may be more glacial. Still connected to transport as my company has several high end IT contracts with TfL and their bus operators. Some have popped up recently and claim to know it all, quite amusing, lol... I have seen the A4 sheets on the E10 Cadets, blank 184 blinds, torn ones, the amount of information disappear down to an ultimate destination... the array of Dayglo and White on the 237 buses back in the day, so don't just say this on a whim. As information is found wanting on this forum of late, it can be hard getting a non sarky reply from a few smart arses who have taken this place downhill in the last 5 years... Agree it's going downhill. So wrong that you guys are having to defend yourself and explain your industry experience to someone sat behind a screen.
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Post by Lewis J.N. on Jun 4, 2020 15:03:55 GMT
The Mobitec high-res screen (as seen on OME2654 and here at the Bus & Coach Show last autumn) is very impressive and they are trying to integrate every possible feature into it, including next-stop, ETAs, departure countdown and onward connections which is commendable. Mobitec already support things like destinations changing en-route on their existing screens too, and their research into flickering means that their screens are better for people who are visually impaired (it also means they come out better in photos!). As others have said, the price of this technology will go down as more are procured. Given the flexibility of the technology I'd say it's worth the investment. I wonder if operators like Transdev will also buy into it, as one of their buses in Blackburn was used for the trial a few months ago. I'd love to see our buses fitted with it but I'm not sure I could build the financial case over using the normal screens! (The McKenna Bros staff were joking at how I was jealous...) On a side-note, all of the Mobitec displays I've seen so far use the Doug Rose variants of Johnston as on the current printed blinds. At the Bus & Coach Show, they produced two variants of each screen, including the 'as on a blind' version (using the exact images from blinds on the screen) and an 'adapted' version (using less condensed typefaces as appropriate to fill the horizontal space). Doug Rose's typefaces place heavy emphasis on spacing, while the latest screens on the Hanover equivalents appear to use Johnston 100, which has resulted in the noted bad spacing on the P5s and C10s. Attachment Deleted
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 4, 2020 15:40:50 GMT
The Mobitec high-res screen (as seen on OME2654 and here at the Bus & Coach Show last autumn) is very impressive and they are trying to integrate every possible feature into it, including next-stop, ETAs, departure countdown and onward connections which is commendable. Mobitec already support things like destinations changing en-route on their existing screens too, and their research into flickering means that their screens are better for people who are visually impaired (it also means they come out better in photos!). As others have said, the price of this technology will go down as more are procured. Given the flexibility of the technology I'd say it's worth the investment. I wonder if operators like Transdev will also buy into it, as one of their buses in Blackburn was used for the trial a few months ago. I'd love to see our buses fitted with it but I'm not sure I could build the financial case over using the normal screens! (The McKenna Bros staff were joking at how I was jealous...) On a side-note, all of the Mobitec displays I've seen so far use the Doug Rose variants of Johnston as on the current printed blinds. At the Bus & Coach Show, they produced two variants of each screen, including the 'as on a blind' version (using the exact images from blinds on the screen) and an 'adapted' version (using less condensed typefaces as appropriate to fill the horizontal space). Doug Rose's typefaces place heavy emphasis on spacing, while the latest screens on the Hanover equivalents appear to use Johnston 100, which has resulted in the noted bad spacing on the P5s and C10s. View AttachmentThanks for explaining that, Lewis! It is good seeing the technology improve, I had no idea it was Hanover kit on the Caetano buses. They could reduce the point size for the route number. McKenna could retrofit these new blinds in place of the smart blinds, or TfL could make the McKenna LED tech standard for new bus orders. Financially the tech will pay for itself, more flexibility for new route wins without inserts etc., Rail Replacement services will have more ability to display destinations if contract work outside London taking pressure off "United Transit" / Commercial fleet, a regular service bus could be used. No agony of changing blinds for garage transfers that may not contain the same routes ie FW to BT for instance. The old adage "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice" has served me well. Hopefully other operators will follow suit. Arriva London's non smart blind buses on the 123 are starting to look a state. Would there be LED replacements available for the older manual blinded buses
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Post by Lewis J.N. on Jun 4, 2020 17:01:52 GMT
Thanks for explaining that, Lewis! It is good seeing the technology improve, I had no idea it was Hanover kit on the Caetano buses. They could reduce the point size for the route number. McKenna could retrofit these new blinds in place of the smart blinds, or TfL could make the McKenna LED tech standard for new bus orders. Financially the tech will pay for itself, more flexibility for new route wins without inserts etc., Rail Replacement services will have more ability to display destinations if contract work outside London taking pressure off "United Transit" / Commercial fleet, a regular service bus could be used. No agony of changing blinds for garage transfers that may not contain the same routes ie FW to BT for instance. The old adage "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice" has served me well. Hopefully other operators will follow suit. Arriva London's non smart blind buses on the 123 are starting to look a state. Would there be LED replacements available for the older manual blinded buses Yes, reducing the point size of the route number and giving the whole text a little room to 'breathe' would definitely improve the screens. I'm curious to why Doug Rose appears to have been passed over with this batch given he did the screens for the Stagecoach E400s which use the same hardware. I don't know anything about the cost, indeed comparing between Hanover and Mobitec (I believe the latter is pricier) or comparing either to conventional blinds. However, if we are to believe that the screens are of greater cost to a smartblind system and the associated costs of replacing blinds along a vehicle's lifetime, I highly doubt we'll see many (if any) retrofits. As with the electric mirrors (which are no doubt more expensive than conventional mirrors, just to put that out there), they'll come on new builds where the best cost-saving can be seen right from the start. There are lots of things on buses nowadays that aren't crucial - such as the camera mirrors and charging points - so I do hope TfL will see the benefits of the screens. Rail Replacement is surely a massive benefit, with full update-able calling patterns being able to be displayed in the correct typeface now available, though that does rather depend on the initiative of the operator covering the work!
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 4, 2020 20:52:44 GMT
Thanks for explaining that, Lewis! It is good seeing the technology improve, I had no idea it was Hanover kit on the Caetano buses. They could reduce the point size for the route number. McKenna could retrofit these new blinds in place of the smart blinds, or TfL could make the McKenna LED tech standard for new bus orders. Financially the tech will pay for itself, more flexibility for new route wins without inserts etc., Rail Replacement services will have more ability to display destinations if contract work outside London taking pressure off "United Transit" / Commercial fleet, a regular service bus could be used. No agony of changing blinds for garage transfers that may not contain the same routes ie FW to BT for instance. The old adage "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice" has served me well. Hopefully other operators will follow suit. Arriva London's non smart blind buses on the 123 are starting to look a state. Would there be LED replacements available for the older manual blinded buses Yes, reducing the point size of the route number and giving the whole text a little room to 'breathe' would definitely improve the screens. I'm curious to why Doug Rose appears to have been passed over with this batch given he did the screens for the Stagecoach E400s which use the same hardware. I don't know anything about the cost, indeed comparing between Hanover and Mobitec (I believe the latter is pricier) or comparing either to conventional blinds. However, if we are to believe that the screens are of greater cost to a smartblind system and the associated costs of replacing blinds along a vehicle's lifetime, I highly doubt we'll see many (if any) retrofits. As with the electric mirrors (which are no doubt more expensive than conventional mirrors, just to put that out there), they'll come on new builds where the best cost-saving can be seen right from the start. There are lots of things on buses nowadays that aren't crucial - such as the camera mirrors and charging points - so I do hope TfL will see the benefits of the screens. Rail Replacement is surely a massive benefit, with full update-able calling patterns being able to be displayed in the correct typeface now available, though that does rather depend on the initiative of the operator covering the work! I think it was a case of not choosing his font type which would condense route numbers. The 25 and 241 numbers didn't look as bad as the P5, but it can be either the whole blind (destination and route) was copied and pasted as some sort of JPEG into the space so there's no proper scaling, or it's just not being used to the space you have to work with. Back in the day (2000) I had software to make my own operator screen or screen saver for my Nokia 3310, (Nokia Editor) you could use standard fonts if you didn't draw something yourself, but lack of scaling always made things look a mess. I wonder if it is like a similar deal with some of these LED programming software? Does the font (Doug Rose) need to be installed or programmed into the EEPROM of the blindset? I'm no programming expert but it could just be a case of tweaking the software, like how Dartford Garage were able to breathe life into sluggish DW's inherited from Tottenham
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